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You didn’t answer the question.
Where are you getting this idea from? What passage of scripture supports this statement?
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You didn’t answer the question.How does this change my point.
Where are you getting this idea from? What passage of scripture supports this statement?No, my point is that without Christ, you cannot open your heart to Him.
It has nothing to do with my ego it’s about what Christ said in John 15:4-5. He was not telling His 11 faithful apostles that they would not exist without Him and He wasn’t telling them that without Him they can’t repent. You’re cherry picking verses and quoting them out of context to try to support your statements that aren’t backed up by scripture. I’ve shown you with scripture that God commands all men to repent and you just ignore it. Why? You’re quoting John 15:5 which says absolutely nothing about repentance in the entire chapter and I’m quoting a verse that literally says that God commands all men to REPENT. It can’t get any clearer than that. There’s no question about context in that statement, it’s specifically about repentance. So why do you ignore it?It doesn't change the seperate fact that without Him we would not exsist. It all honesty, it was a battle of our egos and was not for Christ.
You got your bone to chew on. But as for me, I believe that we can do nothing without Christ including exist. But this is way off topic.It has nothing to do with my ego it’s about what Christ said in John 15:4-5. He was not telling His 11 faithful apostles that they would not exist without Him and He wasn’t telling them that without Him they can’t repent. You’re cherry picking verses and quoting them out of context to try to support your statements that aren’t backed up by scripture. I’ve shown you with scripture that God commands all men to repent and you just ignore it. Why? You’re quoting John 15:5 which says absolutely nothing about repentance in the entire chapter and I’m quoting a verse that literally says that God commands all men to REPENT. It can’t get any clearer than that. There’s no question about context in that statement, it’s specifically about repentance. So why do you ignore it?
You didn’t answer the question.
Where are you getting this idea from? What passage of scripture supports this statement?
"And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked... But God, being rich in mercy... even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved."
"The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned."
"None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God."
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day."
"The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul."
“For by grace you have been saved THROUGH FAITH; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;”1. We Are Spiritually Dead Before Salvation
Ephesians 2:1-5 (ESV):
- This passage says that we were dead, not merely sick or weak. A dead person cannot respond unless God first makes them alive.
- The action is God's: "made us alive together with Christ," indicating that regeneration precedes faith.
Everyone was once a natural man. NOBODY IS BORN HAVING SPIRITUAL DISCERNMENT. THE CORINTHIANS DIDN’T HAVE SPIRITUAL DISCERNMENT, DID THEY BELIEVE THE GOSPEL? WERE THEY SAVED?2. The Natural Person Cannot Accept the Things of God
1 Corinthians 2:14 (ESV):
- The natural (unregenerate) person cannot accept or understand spiritual things. This suggests an inability to open one's heart to Christ without a change in nature—something only God can initiate.
Wrong, Romans 3:10-12 is a proverbial statement, it’s not a literal statement because the scriptures specifically state that several people were righteous, people were seeking God, and people did do good. Noah, Enoch, Job, Abraham, are just a few examples of men who were specifically stated as being righteous men.3. No One Seeks God
Romans 3:10-12 (ESV):
- If no one seeks God on their own, then any movement toward Christ must be God-initiated. We don’t open our hearts to Him—He opens our hearts to receive Him.
I already addressed John 6:44. Jesus said that DURING HIS MINISTRY. But John 12:32 tells us that the drawing to Christ changed after His crucifixion.4. God Must Draw Us
John 6:44 (ESV):
- This directly states human inability to come to Christ unless drawn by the Father. That "drawing" is understood by many as regeneration.
"Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) or Keep the faith until the end?"When I became a born again Christian over 5 years ago, I loved coming to this forum to learn about the Bible. The topic of OSAS was the topic which significantly held my interest. I went back and forth on the issue, and I really wanted to believe OSAS is true, for peace of mind. Thing is, I could never get peace in letting this doctrine settle,and I believe it's for this reason: OSAS is a false doctrine meant to make us lazy, useless in the body of Christ, and possibly even send one to hell. Without posting every verse in the Bible which supports my belief, I will post this one: Matthew 24:13 says: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved."
If you believe in the doctrine of OSAS, I beg you to reconsider. By negating OSAS you do not automatically get pigeonholed as one who subscribes to "Lordship Salvation", as this is also a false doctrine. However, you will see that maintaining your relationship (abiding in Christ) is necessary for Christians in order to finish the race. You CAN be born again, yet end up in hell because of your apostasy. Do not be fooled nor lazy about your relationship with God. While it's not a religion, it is a relationship, albeit your most important one and it's so easy to drop the ball in this Laodecian church age we find ourselves. Renew your relationship with God every morning and read His Word everyday. I want all of us to make it and not take our relationship with Him for granted. That means NO deliberate sin, as continual deliberate sinning puts Jesus back on the cross and there is no sacrifice left for us...
Hebrews 10:26-27 says, For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.
Of course we aren't perfect and the Bible tells us that if we say we don't sin, we are liars. However, there's a difference between slipping up, and repenting, and living in sin and, "Oops, Jesus forgive me, Oops, I did it again Jesus, Oops, oops, oops",all in the span of a day or a few days or weeks.
There's a difference between a Christian and a disciple and Jesus want us to be the latter. God bless brothers and sisters, finish the race and will see you in heaven soon!
Why did you omit the first half of the verse?5. God Opens the Heart
Acts 16:14 (ESV):
- Lydia did not open her own heart—God did. This illustrates divine initiative in response to the gospel.
In all that I wrote, you choose to pick at this? Really? Do you have an answer or not? And you have no idea whether or not she had already repented.Why did you omit the first half of the verse?
“A woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul.”
Acts 16:14 NASB1995
Why did you remove the first half of the verse that says that she was a “worshipper of God’? She was a worshipper of God before she believed the gospel. She had already repented.
What are you talking about? I replied to every single point you made. I made like 6 or 7 replies to that long post addressing every single point you made and you only responded to one of them. You're saying we can’t repent and believe unless God enables us to then you quote Acts 16:14 as evidence to support you’re statement but the woman whom God opened her heart was ALREADY A WORSHIPPER OF GOD. She was already a believer. Nowhere does it say that she was unable to accept the gospel, it says that the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things Paul was saying. Seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened. She was seeking and knocking because she was already a worshipper of God.In all that I wrote, you choose to pick at this? Really? Do you have an answer or not? And you have no idea whether or not she had already repented.
That refers to us being separated from a personal relationship with God. However, Jesus said we are spiritually sick before salvation. Why do you not say anything about that?1. We Are Spiritually Dead Before Salvation
Ephesians 2:1-5 (ESV):
- This passage says that we were dead, not merely sick or weak. A dead person cannot respond unless God first makes them alive.
- The action is God's: "made us alive together with Christ," indicating that regeneration precedes faith.
That verse is specifically in relation to the deep things of God which refer to the meat or solid food of the word of God that Paul references in 1 Corinthians 3:2. That verse does not refer to things like the simple gospel message. Paul rebuked immature "babes in Christ" for behaving and thinking carnally like the natural man, but they were still "in Christ". They could not understand the meat or solid food of his teaching, but they understood the simple things.2. The Natural Person Cannot Accept the Things of God
1 Corinthians 2:14 (ESV):
- The natural (unregenerate) person cannot accept or understand spiritual things. This suggests an inability to open one's heart to Christ without a change in nature—something only God can initiate.
He reaches out to people with the preaching of the gospel and speaking to people's hearts by the Holy Spirit and then people must choose how to respond. Some choose to resist the Holy Spirit and some choose to embrace the Holy Spirit and the gospel message and they choose to seek Him and put their faith in Him.3. No One Seeks God
Romans 3:10-12 (ESV):
- If no one seeks God on their own, then any movement toward Christ must be God-initiated. We don’t open our hearts to Him—He opens our hearts to receive Him.
Do you ignore this verse...4. God Must Draw Us
John 6:44 (ESV):
- This directly states human inability to come to Christ unless drawn by the Father. That "drawing" is understood by many as regeneration.
Did you read the verse closely?5. God Opens the Heart
Acts 16:14 (ESV):
- Lydia did not open her own heart—God did. This illustrates divine initiative in response to the gospel.
No, it doesn't. You take all of those verses out of context and ignore that sinners are spiritually sick and do not understand that being dead in sins has nothing to do with one's ability, but rather refers to one's status as being separated from God because of sin.Summary:
Scripture portrays humans as spiritually dead, unable to seek God, and incapable of understanding spiritual truth.
Exactly. Calvinists always are only looking at part of the story instead of the whole story. Yes, God opened her heart to the gospel, but why? Was that just random? No. It was because she was already a worshipper of God. Those who believed the teachings of Moses would also believe in Jesus (John 5:46).What are you talking about? I replied to every single point you made. I made like 6 or 7 replies to that long post addressing every single point you made and you only responded to one of them. You're saying we can’t repent and believe unless God enables us to then you quote Acts 16:14 as evidence to support you’re statement but the woman whom God opened her heart was ALREADY A WORSHIPPER OF GOD. She was already a believer. Nowhere does it say that she was unable to accept the gospel, it says that the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things Paul was saying. Seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened. She was seeking and knocking because she was already a worshipper of God.
What worshipper of God has not repented?In all that I wrote, you choose to pick at this? Really? Do you have an answer or not? And you have no idea whether or not she had already repented.
Not nessecarily, The rich young ruler had worshipped All his life but had never repented. Even Cornelius was a worshipper of God before he received the Holy Spirit. Many have a form of godliness but deny the power of God.What worshipper of God has not repented?
They are not true worshipers of God like Lydia and Cornelius then. No one would be described as a worshiper of God unless they had repented and had true faith.Not nessecarily, The rich young ruler had worshipped All his life but had never repented. Even Cornelius was a worshipper of God before he received the Holy Spirit. Many have a form of godliness but deny the power of God.
You say so, but what makes what you say a fact. We can publish our opinions all we want but that does not make it so.They are not true worshipers of God like Lydia and Cornelius then. No one would be described as a worshiper of God unless they had repented and had true faith.
Well, all of the Pharisees for start. All those who had a form of Godliness.What worshipper of God has not repented?
Lots of your opinions but little scripture.That refers to us being separated from a personal relationship with God. However, Jesus said we are spiritually sick before salvation. Why do you not say anything about that?
Mark 2:16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners? 17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Jesus calls sinners who are dead in sins and also sick to repentance. Do you know the difference between being dead in sins and being spiritually sick and in need of the physician? As I already said, being dead in sins means you are separated from God. Death is separation. Physical death results in the separation of the body from the soul and spirit.
To be spiritually sick means we are sinners who need to repent. Can a physically sick person not realize that he can't cure himself and acknowledge that he needs a physician without divine intervention causing him to do so? Of course he can. Likewise, being a sinner does not mean you are incapable of recognizing it without being regenerated first. Sinners are spiritually sick, not spiritually unconscious. Sinners can be shown their sin and then decide to humble themselves and acknowledge their sins and that they can't save themselves and need the Great Physician Jesus to heal them spiritually.
That verse is specifically in relation to the deep things of God which refer to the meat or solid food of the word of God that Paul references in 1 Corinthians 3:2. That verse does not refer to things like the simple gospel message. Paul rebuked immature "babes in Christ" for behaving and thinking carnally like the natural man, but they were still "in Christ". They could not understand the meat or solid food of his teaching, but they understood the simple things.
He reaches out to people with the preaching of the gospel and speaking to people's hearts by the Holy Spirit and then people must choose how to respond. Some choose to resist the Holy Spirit and some choose to embrace the Holy Spirit and the gospel message and they choose to seek Him and put their faith in Him.
Acts 7:51 “You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!
You are right that God initiates things, but you are wrong to think that He can't be resisted.
Do you ignore this verse...
John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”
All people are drawn, but that can be resisted.
Did you read the verse closely?
One of those listening was a woman from the city of Thyatira named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth. She was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul’s message
Did God just randomly pick Lydia to open her heart to Paul's message? No. She was already a worshiper of God. How did she become a worshiper of God in the first place? I believe she used her free will to choose to worship God, but she could have chosen not to.
God did something similar for Cornelius by having Peter go preach to him. But, he already believed in God, so Peter wasn't just sent to him randomly. As Jesus said, if someone believed Moses, they would also believe Him (John 5:46).
No, it doesn't. You take all of those verses out of context and ignore that sinners are spiritually sick and do not understand that being dead in sins has nothing to do with one's ability, but rather refers to one's status as being separated from God because of sin.
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