Once Saved Always Saved OR One can forfeit their salvation?

Eternal Security OR One Can forfeit their Salvation?

  • Eternal Security (OSAS)

    Votes: 4 36.4%
  • One Can forfeit their salvation through a lifestyle of sin.

    Votes: 7 63.6%

  • Total voters
    11

Albion

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There ought to be a third poll choice since a person who lives a lifestyle of sin is usually considered not to have had saving Faith in the first place. That would be different from being a serious believer who, however, does sin from time to time.
 
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Tolworth John

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Are followers in Christ eternally secure (OSAS), or can they forfeit their salvation by turning to a lifestyle of sin?

I'd like to hear responses, and please vote in the poll.

It boils down to who is in control.
Does God control our destiny or do we control our destiny.
If God is in control then we cannot tear ourselves away from him.
If God is not in control then in a tantrum we can throw salvation.
 
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HTacianas

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Are followers in Christ eternally secure (OSAS), or can they forfeit their salvation by turning to a lifestyle of sin?

I'd like to hear responses, and please vote in the poll.

Heb 12:15 - looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled;

Heb 12:16 - lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright.

Heb 12:17 - For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it diligently with tears.
 
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1213

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Are followers in Christ eternally secure (OSAS), or can they forfeit their salvation by turning to a lifestyle of sin?

I have understood salvation means that sins are forgiven and so person is saved from the judgment that would be death. Sins that are forgiven, remain forgiven. But, old forgiveness is not useful, if person have a new sin. That is why I think Jesus said:

"Neither do I condemn you. Go your way. From now on, sin no more."
John 8:11

"Behold, you are made well. Sin no more, so that nothing worse happens to you."
John 5:14

And that is why I think Jesus taught that people should be born anew and become righteous. Eternal life is promised for righteous and after forgiveness one doesn’t become righteous, forgiveness is not useful. I hope this is not too much, but here are the scriptures that are the reason why I said this.

...That which is born of the flesh is flesh. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Don't marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born anew.'
John 3:3-7

But as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become God's children...
John 1:12-13

It is the spirit who gives life. The flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and are life.
John 6:63

He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

the righteous will live by faith. If he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him.
Hebrews 10:38
 
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anna ~ grace

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Are followers in Christ eternally secure (OSAS), or can they forfeit their salvation by turning to a lifestyle of sin?

I'd like to hear responses, and please vote in the poll.
Hey; I do not believe in OSAS. I believe that salvation can be lost through continued, unrepentant sin, apostasy, and shrinking from / running from God, and back into self. This is a risk for every Christian.
 
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Albion

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Hey; I do not believe in OSAS. I believe that salvation can be lost through continued, unrepentant sin, apostasy, and shrinking from / running from God, and back into self. This is a risk for every Christian.
That's reasonable, but doesn't it beg the question of whether such a person ever was saved in the first place? Obviously, I would say, if a person was never saved, OSAS is not applicable to him.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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That's reasonable, but doesn't it beg the question of whether such a person ever was saved in the first place? Obviously, I would say, if a person was never saved, OSAS is not applicable to him.
1 John 2:19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Are followers in Christ eternally secure (OSAS), or can they forfeit their salvation by turning to a lifestyle of sin?

I'd like to hear responses, and please vote in the poll.

I can't vote in the poll because I don't agree with either position. Yes, one can forfeit--reject, turn away from, and abandon--their salvation. And an unrepentant, deliberately sinful life--and thereby refusing and rejecting Christ through deliberately throwing their faith away--is a means of shipwrecking one's faith.

But the question, as posed, is too ambiguous I think. What is meant by "lifestyle of sin"? Is it a deliberate turning away from faith, abandoning Christ, refusing repentance over what one knows is sinful? Then yes. Or is it the common sinfulness endemic to all of us, that in spite of how hard we try to live in accordance with God's good commandments, we fail, fall, and continue to sin and compound our sinfulness?

The key here isn't our moral ability, but rather faith. The one who has faith in Christ will not be put to shame, as it is written, "Everyone who believes in Him will not be put to shame" (Romans 10:11), for indeed, "All who call on the name of the Lord will be saved" (Romans 10:13), for indeed, the Gospel "is the power of God to save all who believe, the Jew first and also the Gentile. For in it the justice of God is revealed from faith to faith, just as it is written, 'The just shall live by faith.'" (Romans 1:16-17).

But we are warned against the shipwrecking of our faith (1 Timothy 1:19), which is why we are to put our faith in Christ and cleave to Him. To abandon Him, to deny our baptism by which we have been crucified, buried, dead with Jesus and risen with Jesus to new life--by which we have died to sin and been made alive to God--and to turn toward a life apart from Him is going to shipwreck us. That doesn't mean God will abandon us, for Christ is the Good Shepherd who searches high and low for the one lost lamb, and we have a good Father who rejoices when the Prodigal returns home.

It's always about faith in Christ, and the assurance we have in Him. Not our moral ability, nor is it that we can live wanton lives of self-destruction without consequence and repercussion. We can rest assured in the grace which we have in Jesus Christ our Lord who saves us, and this is most certainly true. But if we throw our Lord away and spite His gifts, and we steer ourselves into the jagged rocks of faithlessness, we are throwing away all we have in Him--and this is unfortunately and sadly also sometimes true.

Which is why the Church must always faithfully preach Christ, directing everything back to Him. Christ alone is our rock and our refuge.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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BobRyan

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I can't vote in the poll because I don't agree with either position. Yes, one can forfeit--reject, turn away from, and abandon--their salvation. And an unrepentant, deliberately sinful life--and thereby refusing and rejecting Christ through deliberately throwing their faith away--is a means of shipwrecking one's faith.

But the question, as posed, is too ambiguous I think. What is meant by "lifestyle of sin"? Is it a deliberate turning away from faith, abandoning Christ, refusing repentance over what one knows is sinful? Then yes. Or is it the common sinfulness endemic to all of us, that in spite of how hard we try to live in accordance with God's good commandments, we fail, fall, and continue to sin and compound our sinfulness?

There are two main groups.

1. Those that say once you are saved you can never lose salvation.
2. those that say you can lose salvation and you have free will in regard to salvation and sinning -- after salvation just as you did before therefore "I buffet my body and make it my slave lest after preaching the Gospel to others I myself should be disqualified" 1 Cor 9. And also "you stand only by your faith.. you should fear for if He did not spare them neither will He spare you" Romans 11

But there is another topic -- which you touch on. And it is "for those who are saved - are they still enslaved to sinning due to their super-weak sinful nature always having the upper hand no matter what"
 
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BobRyan

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That's reasonable, but doesn't it beg the question of whether such a person ever was saved in the first place? Obviously, I would say, if a person was never saved, OSAS is not applicable to him.

indeed it is a circular argument that says "the way we know you are not OSAS is that you lost your salvation"
1. You can't lose something you never had.
2. Losing something you don't have is not "the sign of something" -- because it does not exist.

There is a form of OSAS that will retro-delete all the assurance of salvation you have today - if it turns out that 20 years from today - you choose to live like the devil.

There is another form of OSAS - that says your assurance today is never to be revoked no matter if 20 years from today you choose to live like the devil from that point onward to the day you die.
 
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Josheb

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Are followers in Christ eternally secure (OSAS)?
Yes.
...or can they forfeit their salvation by turning to a lifestyle of sin?
No.

Humans are not sufficiently powerful enough to wrest themselves from God's grasp. We do not have the power to render the blood of Christ worthless and ineffective.

One of the reasons the debate on this matter exists is because of the failure to discriminate or properly exegete all mentions of "saved," or "salvation" mentioned in scripture. Many, many of the comments "If you do _________, then you will be saved," are references to salvation from the pending judgment coming upon Israel/Jerusalem in the first century. The reference was not a salvation from sin, but a salvation from judgment or wrath.

Hebrews 9:23-28
"Therefore it was necessary for the copies of the things in the heavens to be cleansed with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own. Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him."

What, exactly, is a salvation "without reference to sin" because Calvary was definitely, inescapably, undeniably, irrefutably about salvation form sin and the same is true of the final judgment in which each and all will be held to account for every misguided word ever spoken. So we see there are salvations mentioned in the NT that have nothing to do with the salvation from sin provided at Calvary. You watch as the discussion of this op unfolds; posters are going to quote scriptures 1) in proof-text manner and 2) ignore the context of pending judgment alluded to in the larger passage.

The Zondrvan Counterpoints Series has a book dedicated to the topic of Eternal Security in which the Classic Calvinist, Moderate Calvinist, Reformed Arminian, and Wesleyan Arminian views are discussed comparatively. It is pretty good and will provide a basic understanding of the first three views (Harper does not do a very good job of articulating the Wesleyan view).

Personally, even though the passage is not specifically about eternal security, I find the following the most powerful.

1 Corinthians 3:10-15
"According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire."

If we are building on the foundation of Christ crucified and resurrected then we are saved. Period. If we are not building upon that foundation then we weren't saved to begin with. We may be fruitless and ineffective as Christians 9I don't believe that actually happens) but we are saved. We could enter the final judgment with what we think is an abundant of bona fides but all works of flesh will be burned up and we might exit charred and covered in soot but the blood of Christ washes away all unrighteousness. Those not building on Christ don't emerge.[/QUOTE]
 
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