On The Risen Christ

[KD_1P48]

A big hurdle for me has always been the acceptance of Jesus Christ rising from the dead. Even when I was converting to Mormonism I could *not* accept this because I simply was not convinced by the evidence.

I've thought about this quite a bit over the years and forced myself to contend with the idea that perhaps I have been married to naturalism rather than just simply convinced by it as an epistemological tool.

Normally when these conversations occur it turns into a conversation about evidence and the reliability of aforementioned evidence, blah blah blah. I really couldn't care any less about whatever 500 page document someone could refer me to. I've learned that evidence doesn't convince the non-believer of theism, it only moves a non-believer to a position of deism.

So rather than get bogged down in the swamp of imagined rationality, I'd rather ask you individually. If you believe in Jesus Christ is it absolutely necessary for you to and why is it necessary for you to believe in Him?

Is your life completely unmanageable without Jesus? Do you operate on self-will and subsequently self-destruct because of how ultimately powerless you are without Him?

Thanks in advance.

 

[mikeforjesus]

The disciples saw it and if it was false others would be able to prove it did not happen for God never asks people to disbelieve a prophet who you can not prove is wrong that persons had never shown them to prove to them and if you go they will never be able to prove it did not happen for God always provides the means to expose false prophets and it should be expected as the prophets talk about His suffering in psalm 22 and Isaiah 53 and many prophecies about Him. For genesis says there is need for seed to crush satan who brought the fall of world from paradise to destroy his works and only one that could do that is God that the only one who could atone for sin to be suffering messiah would have to be God so man who comes would need to be God and therefore He would be able to rise from dead and necessary which Jesus did. For me to not abide in the Son would lead to a hardening of the heart to lose faith which may lead to dying as before being able to believe the things of God or could lead to being vulnerable to attack of enemy to be at risk to be destroy if I do not return when I can without His help or risk a death at any time without Him.

 

[ViaCrucis]

A big hurdle for me has always been the acceptance of Jesus Christ rising from the dead. Even when I was converting to Mormonism I could *not* accept this because I simply was not convinced by the evidence.

I've thought about this quite a bit over the years and forced myself to contend with the idea that perhaps I have been married to naturalism rather than just simply convinced by it as an epistemological tool.

Normally when these conversations occur it turns into a conversation about evidence and the reliability of aforementioned evidence, blah blah blah. I really couldn't care any less about whatever 500 page document someone could refer me to. I've learned that evidence doesn't convince the non-believer of theism, it only moves a non-believer to a position of deism.

So rather than get bogged down in the swamp of imagined rationality, I'd rather ask you individually. If you believe in Jesus Christ is it absolutely necessary for you to and why is it necessary for you to believe in Him?

Is your life completely unmanageable without Jesus? Do you operate on self-will and subsequently self-destruct because of how ultimately powerless you are without Him?

Thanks in advance.

Me without Jesus would be a dark and lonely thing. It's hard to explain why, I don't know how to explain it to someone who doesn't believe in Him. The best way I can put it is that I can feel, "see", sense just how dark I am. I don't mean morality here, as though if I weren't a Christian I'd be out doing bad things--my moral code wouldn't change, and my behavior probably wouldn't change much either. I don't really know how else to describe it than there's something dark and cold, an immense emptiness, like a complete absence of life. Jesus is the life, and the light, and fills me with the meaning and purpose of my humanity.

That probably isn't going to make any sense whatsoever. And it likely might be misunderstood. Hopefully I've been clear enough that I'm not saying I'd become a "bad person" if I wasn't a Christian. Or anything along those lines. It's something much deeper, visceral, and existential than that.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[renniks]

Is your life completely unmanageable without Jesus? Do you operate on self-will and subsequently self-destruct because of how ultimately powerless you are without Him?

Yes.

 

[KD_1P48]

Me without Jesus would be a dark and lonely thing. It's hard to explain why, I don't know how to explain it to someone who doesn't believe in Him. The best way I can put it is that I can feel, "see", sense just how dark I am. I don't mean morality here, as though if I weren't a Christian I'd be out doing bad things--my moral code wouldn't change, and my behavior probably wouldn't change much either. I don't really know how else to describe it than there's something dark and cold, an immense emptiness, like a complete absence of life. Jesus is the life, and the light, and fills me with the meaning and purpose of my humanity.

That probably isn't going to make any sense whatsoever. And it likely might be misunderstood. Hopefully I've been clear enough that I'm not saying I'd become a "bad person" if I wasn't a Christian. Or anything along those lines. It's something much deeper, visceral, and existential than that.

-CryptoLutheran

This is a beautiful answer. It has given me something to think about.
I'm in Alcoholics Anonymous and so this description reminds me very much of what it is like to be a "dry drunk", which happens when I do not live by the spiritual principles that are suggested to me.

I appreciate the thought you put into your response.

 

[David's Harp]

If you believe in Jesus Christ is it absolutely necessary for you to and why is it necessary for you to believe in Him?

There's no other way for me. I explored a lot of the other options before I came to Christ. I have no hope in this world or in the endeavours of man. I have no faith in other philosophies or religions. All is vanity without Jesus Christ.

I'm quite sure I could operate under my own will for a time without Jesus, but where would be the meaning in life? All the pleasures of the senses or worldly accolades are nothing compared to an eternal God who would humble himself in the form of Jesus Christ to walk the earth without sin, choose to die for all who would believe, and be resurrected in power that we might live with Him. What a hope! What a promise! What a great God! Praise Him in the highest!

 

[Halbhh]

A big hurdle for me has always been the acceptance of Jesus Christ rising from the dead. Even when I was converting to Mormonism I could *not* accept this because I simply was not convinced by the evidence.

I've thought about this quite a bit over the years and forced myself to contend with the idea that perhaps I have been married to naturalism rather than just simply convinced by it as an epistemological tool.

Normally when these conversations occur it turns into a conversation about evidence and the reliability of aforementioned evidence, blah blah blah. I really couldn't care any less about whatever 500 page document someone could refer me to. I've learned that evidence doesn't convince the non-believer of theism, it only moves a non-believer to a position of deism.

So rather than get bogged down in the swamp of imagined rationality, I'd rather ask you individually. If you believe in Jesus Christ is it absolutely necessary for you to and why is it necessary for you to believe in Him?

Is your life completely unmanageable without Jesus? Do you operate on self-will and subsequently self-destruct because of how ultimately powerless you are without Him?

Thanks in advance.

As an atheist, I was reading wisdom traditions and great thinkers from around the world, along with many other paths and ways people have come up with for living the best life, to have the most fulfilling life, and so I read for example Lao Tzu, Emerson, Jung, and many many others, and along the way at some point I also reread (as I had once in childhood) the teaching of Jesus because it came into my mind to remember the phrase "Love your neighbor as yourself" -- so I looked that up (before the internet), and found it after a while of skimming through a gospel....and it struck me that this was something possibly profound, and...that I could try it out. Actually do it.

A very radical thought, in a way, don't you agree?

After all, it's one thing to pick out a neighbor and befriend them...but that's not what the words say here. They say to love each person around us that we encounter, regardless of who they are.... and that is radical.

It's severely radical, in a way. It can overturn the world. It overturns/cancels political power. It's extremely threatening to any kind of social power hierarchy for instance, in that everyone becomes valuable and there is no scrambling/competition of appearances/status/attractiveness to be loved, because each person is to be loved.

I was intrigued. So, I did it.

And that was the first step in gradually doing more and more of what Christ said to do. Literally do. Actual actions.

And from that listening to his words and doing them, I gradually learned over time in hundreds of experiences that everything He says works, and also works better (has better outcomes) than any competing ideas that are unalike.

Eventually one can do each instruction that doesn't require faith, and then have done all of those, leaving...only the instructions that require faith as the remaining ones to try out...

But it turns out that in Matthew 7, and in the totality of all 4 gospels as a whole read in a whole way, you learn how Christ said to find God.

So, that can be done too, with His help. I literally prayed "God...make a way from me to You. Bring me to you."

What happened not all that long, a few hours or a day later is that I slid off a 2nd story roof over large rocks, a likely fatal or maiming fall, and prayed in 1/2 of a second "Help!" and it was faith and I was praying to God, and I woke up without even a bruise, sitting on a ledge part of the way down, perfectly balanced. Twilight Zone like.

I began to believe. And another part of this is that if you really listen to Christ (as you read), and hear His words, it does something to you -- Romans 10:17.

So, if you want the fullness of faith, which is so so much more than only liking what Christ taught about how to live with others....then really listen to His words as you read them...let His words soak in, and use them to begin to follow His way.

 

[Carl Emerson]

A big hurdle for me has always been the acceptance of Jesus Christ rising from the dead. Even when I was converting to Mormonism I could *not* accept this because I simply was not convinced by the evidence.

I've thought about this quite a bit over the years and forced myself to contend with the idea that perhaps I have been married to naturalism rather than just simply convinced by it as an epistemological tool.

Normally when these conversations occur it turns into a conversation about evidence and the reliability of aforementioned evidence, blah blah blah. I really couldn't care any less about whatever 500 page document someone could refer me to. I've learned that evidence doesn't convince the non-believer of theism, it only moves a non-believer to a position of deism.

So rather than get bogged down in the swamp of imagined rationality, I'd rather ask you individually. If you believe in Jesus Christ is it absolutely necessary for you to and why is it necessary for you to believe in Him?

Is your life completely unmanageable without Jesus? Do you operate on self-will and subsequently self-destruct because of how ultimately powerless you are without Him?

Thanks in advance.

For me I have been encountered direct by Him and as a result have a very deep respect.

I was all but destroyed through drugs and have been rebuilt from scratch.

The personal experience of His Love and healing is overwhelming.

 

[Clare73]

A big hurdle for me has always been the acceptance of Jesus Christ rising from the dead. Even when I was converting to Mormonism I could *not* accept this because I simply was not convinced by the evidence.
I've thought about this quite a bit over the years and forced myself to contend with the idea that perhaps I have been married to naturalism rather than just simply convinced by it as an epistemological tool.
Normally when these conversations occur it turns into a conversation about evidence and the reliability of aforementioned evidence, blah blah blah. I really couldn't care any less about whatever 500 page document someone could refer me to. I've learned that evidence doesn't convince the non-believer of theism, it only moves a non-believer to a position of deism.

So rather than get bogged down in the swamp of imagined rationality, I'd rather ask you individually. If you believe in Jesus Christ is it absolutely necessary for you to and why is it necessary for you to believe in Him?

Depends on what you mean by "necessary."

If what the record shows that he said is true, then eternity depends on my relationship to him--faith, trust and obedience, or unbelief and eternal distress.

If you mean could I live without him, I guess I could. . .many do. . .I did at one time.

But my belief is not so much about what I decided I should believe, as it is about his strong convincing power moving me to believe in the authority and truth of the Judeo-Christian Scriptures, to embrace them, and who and what they reveal, wherein God and Jesus were made real to me, a sense of their presence always with me, a transformation of my inner being, so that now, I can't bear to think of living without and apart from them, they are now my life and reason for being.

Is your life completely unmanageable without Jesus? Do you operate on self-will and subsequently self-destruct because of how ultimately powerless you are without Him?

I was not rescued from a horrible addiction, etc. as many are, so unmanageable, self-destructive and powerless I don't think would be my alternative. My life worked well before.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

A big hurdle for me has always been the acceptance of Jesus Christ rising from the dead. Even when I was converting to Mormonism I could *not* accept this because I simply was not convinced by the evidence.

I've thought about this quite a bit over the years and forced myself to contend with the idea that perhaps I have been married to naturalism rather than just simply convinced by it as an epistemological tool.

Normally when these conversations occur it turns into a conversation about evidence and the reliability of aforementioned evidence, blah blah blah. I really couldn't care any less about whatever 500 page document someone could refer me to. I've learned that evidence doesn't convince the non-believer of theism, it only moves a non-believer to a position of deism.

So rather than get bogged down in the swamp of imagined rationality, I'd rather ask you individually. If you believe in Jesus Christ is it absolutely necessary for you to and why is it necessary for you to believe in Him?

Is your life completely unmanageable without Jesus? Do you operate on self-will and subsequently self-destruct because of how ultimately powerless you are without Him?

Thanks in advance.

No, it isn't "necessary" for me to do so ...

And no, I don't "self-destruct" in the face of abysmal uncertainty.

 

[ozso]

I saw a documentary once where even secular historians said something of great significance occurred on the day of the resurrection.

 

[drich0150]

A big hurdle for me has always been the acceptance of Jesus Christ rising from the dead. Even when I was converting to Mormonism I could *not* accept this because I simply was not convinced by the evidence.

I've thought about this quite a bit over the years and forced myself to contend with the idea that perhaps I have been married to naturalism rather than just simply convinced by it as an epistemological tool.

Normally when these conversations occur it turns into a conversation about evidence and the reliability of aforementioned evidence, blah blah blah. I really couldn't care any less about whatever 500 page document someone could refer me to. I've learned that evidence doesn't convince the non-believer of theism, it only moves a non-believer to a position of deism.

So rather than get bogged down in the swamp of imagined rationality, I'd rather ask you individually. If you believe in Jesus Christ is it absolutely necessary for you to and why is it necessary for you to believe in Him?

Is your life completely unmanageable without Jesus? Do you operate on self-will and subsequently self-destruct because of how ultimately powerless you are without Him?

Thanks in advance.

the Bible nor the history of the church was never meant to be evidence of anything. Think about it from the time it was compiled how many hundreds of years went by before it was available to the common man? Then how could it be considered 'evidence' for all believers if only the elite had access to it?
Our "proof" is and always has been the fact that we've being given direct access to the Holy Spirit. Meaning one on one back and fourth contact with God no priests, prophets, popes or gurus needed. As what better proof of god is there than god?

the Bible role in this was to direct us to God/How to establish a relationship with God, and to keep the elite honest.

 

[ldonjohn]

A big hurdle for me has always been the acceptance of Jesus Christ rising from the dead. Even when I was converting to Mormonism I could *not* accept this because I simply was not convinced by the evidence.

I've thought about this quite a bit over the years and forced myself to contend with the idea that perhaps I have been married to naturalism rather than just simply convinced by it as an epistemological tool.

Normally when these conversations occur it turns into a conversation about evidence and the reliability of aforementioned evidence, blah blah blah. I really couldn't care any less about whatever 500 page document someone could refer me to. I've learned that evidence doesn't convince the non-believer of theism, it only moves a non-believer to a position of deism.

So rather than get bogged down in the swamp of imagined rationality, I'd rather ask you individually. If you believe in Jesus Christ is it absolutely necessary for you to and why is it necessary for you to believe in Him?

Is your life completely unmanageable without Jesus? Do you operate on self-will and subsequently self-destruct because of how ultimately powerless you are without Him?

Thanks in advance.

Yes, believing in Jesus Christ is absolutely necessary for one to become a genuine believer/Christian/born-again child of God.
For myself the real question was what exactly is the meaning of "believe in Jesus?" The answer God's Holy Spirit showed me is that I must believe or see the finished work of Jesus on the cross as all that God required for my sins to be forgiven. IOW, Jesus paid the penalty for my sin & there is nothing I can add to his finished work on the cross. He did it all; He paid the price; paid in full.
Every day I must choose whether to walk in His Spirit or in my flesh. If I choose to walk in my flesh then I will not have His power to overcome my sinful nature, and I will fail miserably in my Christian walk.

John

 

[Reasonable Christian]

A big hurdle for me has always been the acceptance of Jesus Christ rising from the dead. Even when I was converting to Mormonism I could *not* accept this because I simply was not convinced by the evidence.

I've thought about this quite a bit over the years and forced myself to contend with the idea that perhaps I have been married to naturalism rather than just simply convinced by it as an epistemological tool.

I think this shows a good amount of self awareness. Too many atheists or other nonreligious people simply accept naturalism de facto and then say that miracles are impossible, God doesn't exist, etc. Of course, that's begging the question.

Normally when these conversations occur it turns into a conversation about evidence and the reliability of aforementioned evidence, blah blah blah. I really couldn't care any less about whatever 500 page document someone could refer me to. I've learned that evidence doesn't convince the non-believer of theism, it only moves a non-believer to a position of deism.

I don't really understand what you're saying here. Are you saying that evidence for a proposition has no bearing on the truth of the proposition? I'm sure you don't believe that. Are you saying that you don't care about the evidence for Christianity, or that you don't have time or don't want to read about it and decide for yourself? If so, why not? What could possibly be more important to study than whether God exists and whether Jesus was God? And of course evidence doesn't always convince everyone of a given proposition. It's human nature to not believe something you don't want to believe. I would suggest that this is a poor way to live your life, however. I would also point out that plenty of people have considered the evidence for theism and become theists. Plenty of others have gone further and considered the evidence for Christianity and become Christians.

So rather than get bogged down in the swamp of imagined rationality, I'd rather ask you individually.

What is a "swamp of imagined rationality"? Either something is rational or it isn't. This seems like a dodge because you don't want to consider the evidence for Christianity.

If you believe in Jesus Christ is it absolutely necessary for you to and why is it necessary for you to believe in Him? Is your life completely unmanageable without Jesus? Do you operate on self-will and subsequently self-destruct because of how ultimately powerless you are without Him?

Thanks in advance.

These are the wrong questions. What you should be asking is whether Jesus was who he claimed to be (God), whether He in fact rose from the dead, and whether what He said about eternal salvation, etc., is true. But that would require examining evidence that you said you have no interest in examining.

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

So rather than get bogged down in the swamp of imagined rationality, I'd rather ask you individually. If you believe in Jesus Christ is it absolutely necessary for you to and why is it necessary for you to believe in Him?

Is your life completely unmanageable without Jesus? Do you operate on self-will and subsequently self-destruct because of how ultimately powerless you are without Him?

I believe in Jesus Christ, because His Father has given me many, many thoughts of Him and the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, that was sent after His resurrection. These thoughts were all given as responses to direct prayer from me, as ways to manage anything and everything which I need to manage.

I do not operate on self-will. He has trained me out of such attempt.

 

[FreeinChrist]

ADVISOR HAT

This thread had a small clean up. As as reminder, the Statement of Purpose for this forum includes:
​

We recognize that sincere non-Christian seekers are looking for real answers, and the first reply given may be insufficient to achieve this. It is acceptable for the Original Poster (OP) to probe the answers given, and to continue the discussion on lines which help to clarify their understanding of the Christian faith. If another non-Christian seeker wishes to ask questions about the Christian faith, they may start their own thread. No more than one non-Christian Seeker (the OP) may post in a thread.​

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The only non-Christian allowed to post in a thread in this forum is the OP. ​

 

[mmarco]

If you believe in Jesus Christ is it absolutely necessary for you to and why is it necessary for you to believe in Him?

Yes, it is absolutely necessary; let me try to explain why.


I think that the strongest argument supporting the divine nature of Christ is that the christian concept of God and of divine love is the highest possible concept. It is not possible that man could conceive a concept of God superior to the true God, God being the highest good, the source of all good and all true love. I find that the very idea that God loves us so much that He chose to divest himself of his divinity, take on human nature, and agree to undergo crucifixion to save us, expresses such a high concept of God and of divine love that it can comes only from God and it is certainly a truth. I believe that Chirst suffered His Passion to help us have faith in God and trust God, to make us feel loved by God and to make us understand that God is close to us, that God is good and merciful, that we are so precious for Him so that we can truly trust Him, open our heart to Him and let Him change our existence in true life and true love.

The Christian faith is unique because it gives a very concrete and unique meaning to the concept of divine love: in fact God wanted to express his love in a concrete act, sharing human existence to the point of accepting a very painful agony.