On the outside looking in...

[karisma]

This is my first post here, after doing a little reading around on some different opinions...

I'll try to keep this short and sweet: Growing up, I went to church every week with my mom (a liberal Lutheran church). I was baptized, confirmed, learned the basics, which pretty much boiled down to: believe in Jesus, be baptized, you will be saved. Easy enough.

After confirmation, I stopped going to church regularly, and just on holidays. At 16 I started dating different guys, and lost my virginity to my first real boyfriend. Arond 17-18 started experimenting with different drugs, etc. Started losing touch with my faith. Stopped praying regularly.

I'm 22 now, and I don't mess around with drugs anymore, except the occasional toke, but I do binge drink about once a week. I also live with my fiance in an apartment- he helps support me since I'm in college. We are getting married next year.

I recently started thinking about having Christ back in my life again. I started reading the Bible a little more. I came across a passage at some point, though, about women needing to submit to their husbands. I pretty much disregarded it as purely a cultural thing of those times, but I looked online and sure enough, this is something supported by many Christians online! I also learned other things, how women shouldn't be ministers, place is in the home, created to be a "helper" to men. I certainly am no "helper;" we take equal turns cooking and cleaning around our apartment.

As a strong, independent, and intelligent woman, this completely blew my mind!!! My church had a female pastor who was very good! Women shouldn't be leaders? Women should submit to their husbands??? Why shouldn't he submit to me?

Seeing these things completely is turning me off to Christianity. It's like people are still living in the Dark Ages. I have always had a more dominant personality, much more so than my fiance, yet I must submit to him to be a good Christian wife?? what!!! I cannot fully convey my shock.

Learning this, I don't even want to be a part of Christianity anymore. Its' so unenlightening.

I'm sorry, I'm on a bit of a rant. Its something about which I feel very passionately. If anyone could shed some light on this for me, or help explain anything, or even empathize, I would like to hear from you.

Thanks for reading

 

[tapero]

Hi Karisma,

Plenty of people will reply and I can't explain it very well, but take a look at Proverbs 31 and see that the woman works hard and is wise. Since I'm not married I won't go into the submission much, but the bible says to submit to each other, as well as wives submit to your husbands. This doesn't mean the wife is a doormat. It means that the husband is the spiritual authority in the family. It means he is the leader of the family. The head. It doesn't mean that the woman is home doing the chores while the man is working. Both do the chores, both can work. The man can cook and clean as much as the woman does. There are many women who are pastors, and some churches disagree that they should pastor or teach men, and some agree.

If God is calling you and it sounds like He is, then listen to His call. He wants a relationship with you and satan will use any means to prevent that like making you feel like you are to be a doormat. A man should love his wife as he loves Christ. He is to put the wife above and before all except God.

Well, I could go on, but hopefully some better versed will write in this thread.

Focus on Christ, that he died for your sins, and was resurrected, and read the word. Go to a bible teaching Christ centered church, and get involved. You'll see such variations in beliefs out there.

God bless you... Tapero

 

[starelda]

I recently started thinking about having Christ back in my life again. I started reading the Bible a little more. I came across a passage at some point, though, about women needing to submit to their husbands. I pretty much disregarded it as purely a cultural thing of those times, but I looked online and sure enough, this is something supported by many Christians online! I also learned other things, how women shouldn't be ministers, place is in the home, created to be a "helper" to men. I certainly am no "helper;" we take equal turns cooking and cleaning around our apartment.

As a strong, independent, and intelligent woman, this completely blew my mind!!! My church had a female pastor who was very good! Women shouldn't be leaders? Women should submit to their husbands??? Why shouldn't he submit to me?

Seeing these things completely is turning me off to Christianity. It's like people are still living in the Dark Ages. I have always had a more dominant personality, much more so than my fiance, yet I must submit to him to be a good Christian wife?? what!!! I cannot fully convey my shock.

Learning this, I don't even want to be a part of Christianity anymore. Its' so unenlightening.

I'm sorry, I'm on a bit of a rant. Its something about which I feel very passionately. If anyone could shed some light on this for me, or help explain anything, or even empathize, I would like to hear from you.

Thanks for reading

Whoa...hold up there So many different things to tackle...right lets look at submission first. There's varying views on submission. Yes some people do believe that the wife should submit to her husband however, not every Christian believes this...some believe very much in mutual submission...that is the husband and the wife submitting to each other.

Now I think you've made the classic mistake of seeing these verses on submission, saying "Whoa, I can't do that!" and then distancing from Christianity as a result...don't throw the baby out with the bathwater

Lets look at the main verses that deal with submission...

21Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

22Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansing[b] her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church— 30for we are members of his body. 31"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh."[c] 32This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

Now yes, it says "wives submit to your husbands" but look at what it says before that..."submit to one another". Also note what it says afterwards...the verses directed to the husbands. Now ok, the verses aimed at husbands don't actually say "submit". But let me tell you from experience, once those verses are put into practice the husband is submitting as well.

I tell you how this works in my own marriage. See I came across these verses some time after marrying and, like you, was a little shocked by them at first. But I figured I'd give it a go anyway, I'd try this whole submission thing out and submit to my husband. After a little while I realised...it wasn't really me that was just doing the submitting here. He was also submitting to me. And then it hit me...I never looked at the husbands side of things in great detail before...I never really thought about those verses in Ephesians that are directed to the husband. If I had I'd have seen that husbands are very much directed to submit as well even though the bible doesn't actually use that word.

It says "Husbands love your wives just as Christ loved the church"...how did Christ love the church??? He died for it...He gave up everything for it. And at the end of the day, this is really what submission is....it's putting someone elses needs before your own just as Christ did. It's making a decision together, listening to both viewpoints together, working as a team to reach the best outcome...sometimes that means both get what they want...sometimes that means someone has to say "This affects you more than it does me, therefore we do what's best for you". This is mutual submission. Because both wives and husbands are told to submit to each other...they're just told in different ways.

Ok...now other things you mentioned...women leading, women ministers, women helping, women being in the home. These are mainly cultural things. Again, like submission some Christians believe they apply to today as well....but not all do! I quite agree with how you and your fiance help each other around the home...sounds like what me and my husband do. Heck, we both work and I'd go nuts if I was then expected to come home and do more work whilst he sat on his butt....no, he makes some of this mess he can help clean it up lol Women minsters, again...some Christians against it some very much for it. I attend a Church of England (Anglican) church and we have women ministers within this denomination...women leaders are found all over the place...workplaces, governments, churches. Women in the home...uh uh...we have to make a living too. I work, we couldn't survive on just my husbands wages alone. When we have children it's likely that I'll continue to work. So please don't let these verses scare you away from Christianity....times have changed. Christianity isn't anti-women or anti-independant-women. Like I said earlier....don't throw the baby out with the bath water....don't dismiss Christianity because of some verses which many Christians believe to be cultural or interpretted in another way

 

[Stinker]

karisma:

There are a number of churches that have a woman Pastor. Contact one or more of them, even if they are not of the Denomination you grew up in. They will be better able to explain the scriptures and empathize with you.

 

[karisma]

Well, thanks to all the responses, its much appreciated!

It's such a struggle right now for me. Sometimes, as much as I want to believe in God, it's hard. After being in college for 4 years, and having a heavy science background, I feel myself reading with a critical eye on the Bible. So much seems contradicting. I see so much oppression in the form of slavery. I see women oppressed, actually seen as almost evil, unclean, weak minded, and as a part of a man's property. And I can still see how these things influence even today. Just about 9 months ago my boyfriend proposed, but before he did it, he told me he thought he should ask my dad first. I was like, why?!!?!? I'm not a piece of property! I'm my own woman, and I make my own decisions. This is also why I object to my father walking me down the aisle "giving me away;" instead, my fiance are going to walk down the aisle together. I'm going off on a tangent, but what I'm trying to say is I see a lot of the evil that has been done in the name of religion, as well as the oppression: because women are to blame for "original sin" we can't be spiritual leaders, holy wars, Inquisition, polygamy, etc.

I don't know that I am against the concept of there being a God, but I don't know that Christianity has it all right. I find it hard to believe that, with so many world religions, ONLY Christianity is the way to go. Can't we see that ALL the world religions think they are the ONLY WAY! Why are we so sure?

Sex before marriage: this is so confusing to me. For one thing, polygamy was obviously practiced during Biblical times, and although people say that God didn't condone it, I know one man (forget who) who "found favor in the eyes of God" had many wives and concubines, so obviously it wasn't really looked unfavorably upon. Yet premarital sex is so wrong? My fiance and I have been together for over 4 years now and sex is a wonderful, loving experience together. Just because we haven't gone through the ceremony yet we are living in absolute sin?

At the same time, since I was raised Christian, it had a very powerful effect on me. I'm scared NOT to believe in God, even if it doesn't seem logical to me that He exists, just out of tradition I guess. I think anything children are told at a very young age can impact them for the rest of their lives. For example, I still can't sleep with my arm dangling over the edge of the bed because the boogeyman might grab me and pull me under!

I dunno. I guess what I'm saying is I want to believe, but my feminist, scientific, and logical thinker parts of my personality are greatly hindering this. I guess that's why I titled this "on the outside looking in."

 

[WickedServant]

Well, thanks to all the responses, its much appreciated!

It's such a struggle right now for me. Sometimes, as much as I want to believe in God, it's hard. After being in college for 4 years, and having a heavy science background, I feel myself reading with a critical eye on the Bible. So much seems contradicting. I see so much oppression in the form of slavery. I see women oppressed, actually seen as almost evil, unclean, weak minded, and as a part of a man's property. And I can still see how these things influence even today. Just about 9 months ago my boyfriend proposed, but before he did it, he told me he thought he should ask my dad first. I was like, why?!!?!? I'm not a piece of property! I'm my own woman, and I make my own decisions. This is also why I object to my father walking me down the aisle "giving me away;" instead, my fiance are going to walk down the aisle together. I'm going off on a tangent, but what I'm trying to say is I see a lot of the evil that has been done in the name of religion, as well as the oppression: because women are to blame for "original sin" we can't be spiritual leaders, holy wars, Inquisition, polygamy, etc.

I don't know that I am against the concept of there being a God, but I don't know that Christianity has it all right. I find it hard to believe that, with so many world religions, ONLY Christianity is the way to go. Can't we see that ALL the world religions think they are the ONLY WAY! Why are we so sure?

Sex before marriage: this is so confusing to me. For one thing, polygamy was obviously practiced during Biblical times, and although people say that God didn't condone it, I know one man (forget who) who "found favor in the eyes of God" had many wives and concubines, so obviously it wasn't really looked unfavorably upon. Yet premarital sex is so wrong? My fiance and I have been together for over 4 years now and sex is a wonderful, loving experience together. Just because we haven't gone through the ceremony yet we are living in absolute sin?

At the same time, since I was raised Christian, it had a very powerful effect on me. I'm scared NOT to believe in God, even if it doesn't seem logical to me that He exists, just out of tradition I guess. I think anything children are told at a very young age can impact them for the rest of their lives. For example, I still can't sleep with my arm dangling over the edge of the bed because the boogeyman might grab me and pull me under!

I dunno. I guess what I'm saying is I want to believe, but my feminist, scientific, and logical thinker parts of my personality are greatly hindering this. I guess that's why I titled this "on the outside looking in."

Hi, karisma! I'm glad you find yourself wanting to believe, and I quite agree with "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater"; that's good advice.

Quite true that Christianity calls all of us to submit to each other, husbands to wives, wives to husbands, brothers to sisters, and so on. In any relationship between two people that is well formed, and well kept, the individuals must pick and choose their battles.

Paul, who apparently saw himself as the least of Christians, especially among the apostles, and when present among other believers was meek and spoke humbly, yet, when he saw Christians corrupting the truth of God's message of salvation, he took a position of utmost authority.

As to your boyfriend asking your dad's permission to marry you, perhaps this was out of respect? I know, I know; an old custom.

This is pure speculation, but it might not be that Christianity is the only way to go; but the best way to go. If there is another faith in which a person can become like Christ, I have yet to find it.

Peace be with you.

 

[FallingWaters]

Submission is when you duck low enough for God to clobber your husband.

 

[eldermike]

This is my first post here, after doing a little reading around on some different opinions...

I'll try to keep this short and sweet: Growing up, I went to church every week with my mom (a liberal Lutheran church). I was baptized, confirmed, learned the basics, which pretty much boiled down to: believe in Jesus, be baptized, you will be saved. Easy enough.

After confirmation, I stopped going to church regularly, and just on holidays. At 16 I started dating different guys, and lost my virginity to my first real boyfriend. Arond 17-18 started experimenting with different drugs, etc. Started losing touch with my faith. Stopped praying regularly.

I'm 22 now, and I don't mess around with drugs anymore, except the occasional toke, but I do binge drink about once a week. I also live with my fiance in an apartment- he helps support me since I'm in college. We are getting married next year.

I recently started thinking about having Christ back in my life again. I started reading the Bible a little more. I came across a passage at some point, though, about women needing to submit to their husbands. I pretty much disregarded it as purely a cultural thing of those times, but I looked online and sure enough, this is something supported by many Christians online! I also learned other things, how women shouldn't be ministers, place is in the home, created to be a "helper" to men. I certainly am no "helper;" we take equal turns cooking and cleaning around our apartment.

As a strong, independent, and intelligent woman, this completely blew my mind!!! My church had a female pastor who was very good! Women shouldn't be leaders? Women should submit to their husbands??? Why shouldn't he submit to me?

Seeing these things completely is turning me off to Christianity. It's like people are still living in the Dark Ages. I have always had a more dominant personality, much more so than my fiance, yet I must submit to him to be a good Christian wife?? what!!! I cannot fully convey my shock.

Learning this, I don't even want to be a part of Christianity anymore. Its' so unenlightening.

I'm sorry, I'm on a bit of a rant. Its something about which I feel very passionately. If anyone could shed some light on this for me, or help explain anything, or even empathize, I would like to hear from you.

Thanks for reading

The best way to look at submission is the look at Jesus. Jesus took my place and paid the cost of sin for me. By doing so He became the most honored, significant figure in all of history. The act of submitting to anything requires a passion for it. It's something that takes over our logic, our pride, our flesh and it becomes more important to us that ourselves.

That's the idea. Do you love this man enough to die for him? That's what Jesus did, He loved you enough, even while you were are sinner, to die for you.

A wife can't be a wife if your self importance is greater than your marriage. Likewise, a man can't be a husband unless his wife is more important than himself.

That's the biblical marriage. Submission is required, but it's not a lesser role, it's in fact the most honorable, highest role a man or woman can obtain while on earth. It makes the family more important than it's parts, that's what God intended.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

This is my first post here, after doing a little reading around on some different opinions...

I'll try to keep this short and sweet: Growing up, I went to church every week with my mom (a liberal Lutheran church). I was baptized, confirmed, learned the basics, which pretty much boiled down to: believe in Jesus, be baptized, you will be saved. Easy enough.

After confirmation, I stopped going to church regularly, and just on holidays. At 16 I started dating different guys, and lost my virginity to my first real boyfriend. Arond 17-18 started experimenting with different drugs, etc. Started losing touch with my faith. Stopped praying regularly.

I'm 22 now, and I don't mess around with drugs anymore, except the occasional toke, but I do binge drink about once a week. I also live with my fiance in an apartment- he helps support me since I'm in college. We are getting married next year.

I recently started thinking about having Christ back in my life again. I started reading the Bible a little more. I came across a passage at some point, though, about women needing to submit to their husbands. I pretty much disregarded it as purely a cultural thing of those times, but I looked online and sure enough, this is something supported by many Christians online! I also learned other things, how women shouldn't be ministers, place is in the home, created to be a "helper" to men. I certainly am no "helper;" we take equal turns cooking and cleaning around our apartment.

As a strong, independent, and intelligent woman, this completely blew my mind!!! My church had a female pastor who was very good! Women shouldn't be leaders? Women should submit to their husbands??? Why shouldn't he submit to me?

Seeing these things completely is turning me off to Christianity. It's like people are still living in the Dark Ages. I have always had a more dominant personality, much more so than my fiance, yet I must submit to him to be a good Christian wife?? what!!! I cannot fully convey my shock.

Learning this, I don't even want to be a part of Christianity anymore. Its' so unenlightening.

I'm sorry, I'm on a bit of a rant. Its something about which I feel very passionately. If anyone could shed some light on this for me, or help explain anything, or even empathize, I would like to hear from you.

Thanks for reading

I have not compared all the different translations of the Bible but I would suggest maybe a simple version might bring better understanding of what is being said. When the scripture says "submit" it's not meaning to allow yourself to be beaten and kept as a love slave or any other slave for that matter. Of course you may find those who claim to be followers of Christ (Christian) yet will treat the women poorly and twist scripture to say it's right.

Anyway, I believe that if you continue to turn toward Christ and as you read His Word ask Him to explain it to you that you will find a very different meaning from what you have described above. Christ loved women and they were used greatly in His ministry.

Dig deeper into His word and you will see that women were set free from the oppression that man would put on them. If you'd like to PM me with any questions feel free.

God bless you.

 

[WickedServant]

I have not compared all the different translations of the Bible but I would suggest maybe a simple version might bring better understanding of what is being said. When the scripture says "submit" it's not meaning to allow yourself to be beaten and kept as a love slave or any other slave for that matter. Of course you may find those who claim to be followers of Christ (Christian) yet will treat the women poorly and twist scripture to say it's right.

Anyway, I believe that if you continue to turn toward Christ and as you read His Word ask Him to explain it to you that you will find a very different meaning from what you have described above. Christ loved women and they were used greatly in His ministry.

Dig deeper into His word and you will see that women were set free from the oppression that man would put on them. If you'd like to PM me with any questions feel free.

God bless you.

I don't know how anyone could twist scripture to justify beating a loved one, or anyone else for that matter. That's sick. "Therefore, however you want people to treat you, so treat them; this is the law and the prophets." -Jesus, from Sermon on the Mount Gospel of St.Matthew,Ch.7

God bless.

 

[kerrylee]

Karisma,
Hello!!
I am a married Christian, and Im here to tell you that all this man is superior to woman and is allowed to dominate her in marriage is rubbish!! Thats not God!!! That is not what He instituted marriage to be!

God is love as His word, the Bible, reveals. His love is so great that He died for us! He wants us to be happy and enjoy the life He has given us.

'Christianity' has many faces and each one will try to put God in their box! But God is bigger than that!! He doesn't fit in a box, and do not allow anyone to stop you from wanting a relationship with God because of mans interpretation, sometimes incorrect, of certain Scripture.

As brothers and sisters in Christ, we are all submitted to eachother.... in LOVE!! That is submission, not slavery!
You and your husband are the ones to decide how to incorporate Gods standards in your marriage. His guidelines are always to love one another as Christ loves us. Eph 5:28-31 shows the way a Christian husband should treat his wife, and this does not allow for dominant or overbearing treatment from either.

When God made Eve as a helper for Adam, she was a compliment to him,not as inferior... the word translated as helper literally means 'God is my help'. It was Gods power to Adam! Woman was not created to accomodate man, but to correspond to him. She was created equal but different!

Karisma, you dont have to take on other peoples standards in your marriage!! Take on God's!! He views us, man or woman, as equal, precious and He loves us unconditionally. It is humans who warp the scriptures to suit their own agenda.Because of the fall of Adam, we have lost the equal relationship that existed between man and woman, and dominance of the man over woman was a consequence(Genesis 3:16). But in Christ, we are now liberated from sin and its effects and we now live as new creations!(2 Cor 5:17). Therefore Christian marriage should be conformed to the love of Christ and not to the ways of man.

Remember, anyone can say they are Christian, but if their actions dont prove it, then they are not! Jesus said you will recognise my disciples because they have LOVE.

Dont give up on God because of people!! He loves you and is calling you! Dont be afraid of committing yourself to Him, He will always do what is best for you!! He made you, He loves you, He died for you!! Following His guidelines makes us happy and gives us successful lives and relationships. You can have a truly happy and fulfilling marriage and one that suits you and your husband. I have been married this year for 19 years, I dont cook...my husband has all these years, we share housework and care for the kids together...we have a true partnership that honours God, and we both have dignity, and respect each other!! We are committed Christians and have just entered Bible college together to study counselling, and I wouldnt be able to do it if my husband wasnt such a help to me!!

Get out there, meet some real Christians, you may get a surprise...we arent all wierd!!
We have happy, well adjusted marriages where women are honoured, not subjugated!!
Go for it!!

God bless you and bring you true happiness!!!

 

[Robskiwarrior]

Can I just say the words refected in the Verse "Wifes, submit to your husbands" is quickly followed by "Husbands love your wifes and Christ loves the church"

If this was happening from both husband and wife, the relationship would be unstoppable! 2 people together as one! I find it increadably beautiful and I pray that I can love my wife the way Christ loves the church!

(its not about dominace, its about humility, grace, forgiveness and love - from BOTH people )

 

[WickedServant]

Amen.

 

[a1000smiles]

3. "Christianity is oppressive to women."
This objection comes up in confusing the context of the Christian model for marriage. Ephesians 5:22 says, "Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands, as unto the Lord." But the skeptic's objection collapses when the passage is taken in its full context.
Ephesians 5:25 commands husbands, "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the Church, and gave Himself for it."
It is hardly "oppression" to submit to someone who loves you with a sacrificial love. Instead, it is a textbook definition of love – a key ingredient to a successful marriage.

God bless u a 1000 fold...lol...like my sn... I hope you find Jesus. I have been through SO much in life, its amazing I am still alive. Its Jesus that gave me the strength to go on... with him in my life, no matter HOW HORRIBLE life gets, I have the strength to go on with a huge smile on my face because I know he is carrying me. May God Bless u...keep smiling. =D
~Sherzz~

 

[Endure2]

This is my first post here, after doing a little reading around on some different opinions...

I'll try to keep this short and sweet: Growing up, I went to church every week with my mom (a liberal Lutheran church). I was baptized, confirmed, learned the basics, which pretty much boiled down to: believe in Jesus, be baptized, you will be saved. Easy enough.

After confirmation, I stopped going to church regularly, and just on holidays. At 16 I started dating different guys, and lost my virginity to my first real boyfriend. Arond 17-18 started experimenting with different drugs, etc. Started losing touch with my faith. Stopped praying regularly.

I'm 22 now, and I don't mess around with drugs anymore, except the occasional toke, but I do binge drink about once a week. I also live with my fiance in an apartment- he helps support me since I'm in college. We are getting married next year.

I recently started thinking about having Christ back in my life again. I started reading the Bible a little more. I came across a passage at some point, though, about women needing to submit to their husbands. I pretty much disregarded it as purely a cultural thing of those times, but I looked online and sure enough, this is something supported by many Christians online! I also learned other things, how women shouldn't be ministers, place is in the home, created to be a "helper" to men. I certainly am no "helper;" we take equal turns cooking and cleaning around our apartment.

As a strong, independent, and intelligent woman, this completely blew my mind!!! My church had a female pastor who was very good! Women shouldn't be leaders? Women should submit to their husbands??? Why shouldn't he submit to me?

Seeing these things completely is turning me off to Christianity. It's like people are still living in the Dark Ages. I have always had a more dominant personality, much more so than my fiance, yet I must submit to him to be a good Christian wife?? what!!! I cannot fully convey my shock.

Learning this, I don't even want to be a part of Christianity anymore. Its' so unenlightening.

I'm sorry, I'm on a bit of a rant. Its something about which I feel very passionately. If anyone could shed some light on this for me, or help explain anything, or even empathize, I would like to hear from you.

Thanks for reading

i can certainly empathize...
believe me, your not the only one feels that way about issues in the bible or christianity. i do too.
issues like the whole "have faith in something you really dont know is there or you go to hell" that is the worst for me.
becuase he doesnt give you enough to really know for sure...you have to take a chance and pretty much guess, becuase you dont know...thats why its called faith. and he promises hell to those who dont step out into the wild blue...when he knows they dont really have any real reason to know that its true.
and for those who just cant believe becuase they dont see any reason to believe, dont know how to believe in something they cant see touch hear or feel...they burn.
naughty little critters...

i heard something funny the other day, it went
"when someone says 'god sure works in mysterious ways' hes really saying 'man God just took a big crap on me'"
but my advice to you regardless of others becuase its how i really feel, is if you can, walk away from christianity, ive learned its better to just to turn your back on somethings than just reliving pain over and over and going through the same stuff over and over again, when if you just turn around and cease to think on it, you find alot of peace.

 

[a1000smiles]

how i really feel, is if you can, walk away from christianity, ive learned its better to just to turn your back on somethings than just reliving pain over and over and going through the same stuff over and over again, when if you just turn around and cease to think on it, you find alot of peace.

Thats a first, most people I have met in my life (which is a lot) and thousands of people of whom I've heard their testimony...they all found peace AFTER finding Jesus. Myself included, people have gone from sinning so much, alcohol, abuse, drugs, cutting and even commiting murders or suiside to living a life of total peace. Christianity isnt a religion, its a relationship with the living God. and until you find Christ (not religion or Christianity but CHRIST) you wont have peace. I have seen and heard of murdereors, and rasicts and people firmly grounded in their faith (not Christians) change totally. Go from having a very very bad personality to becoming missionaries. That kind of power of such extreame change, if it dosnt come from God and you refuse to believe it, I dont know what else to say. Anyways have an AWESOME day!

 

[Endure2]

well, i not being rude, but you dont have to say anything. im a grown man and these things are my responsibility alone. ya know?

it isnt that easy for me, that person you speak of only exists in the minds of people. and there is more involved than just a relationship, you must strive to live the life of the bible. what i am isnt your fault, and it isnt your responsibility to fix me, so dont let it bother you, though im sure it doesnt.

have a nice day.

 

[Mskedi]

This is my first post here, after doing a little reading around on some different opinions...

I'll try to keep this short and sweet: Growing up, I went to church every week with my mom (a liberal Lutheran church). I was baptized, confirmed, learned the basics, which pretty much boiled down to: believe in Jesus, be baptized, you will be saved. Easy enough.

After confirmation, I stopped going to church regularly, and just on holidays. At 16 I started dating different guys, and lost my virginity to my first real boyfriend. Arond 17-18 started experimenting with different drugs, etc. Started losing touch with my faith. Stopped praying regularly.

I'm 22 now, and I don't mess around with drugs anymore, except the occasional toke, but I do binge drink about once a week. I also live with my fiance in an apartment- he helps support me since I'm in college. We are getting married next year.

I recently started thinking about having Christ back in my life again. I started reading the Bible a little more. I came across a passage at some point, though, about women needing to submit to their husbands. I pretty much disregarded it as purely a cultural thing of those times, but I looked online and sure enough, this is something supported by many Christians online! I also learned other things, how women shouldn't be ministers, place is in the home, created to be a "helper" to men. I certainly am no "helper;" we take equal turns cooking and cleaning around our apartment.

As a strong, independent, and intelligent woman, this completely blew my mind!!! My church had a female pastor who was very good! Women shouldn't be leaders? Women should submit to their husbands??? Why shouldn't he submit to me?

Seeing these things completely is turning me off to Christianity. It's like people are still living in the Dark Ages. I have always had a more dominant personality, much more so than my fiance, yet I must submit to him to be a good Christian wife?? what!!! I cannot fully convey my shock.

Learning this, I don't even want to be a part of Christianity anymore. Its' so unenlightening.

I'm sorry, I'm on a bit of a rant. Its something about which I feel very passionately. If anyone could shed some light on this for me, or help explain anything, or even empathize, I would like to hear from you.

Thanks for reading

There are plenty of churches and Christians who think that that was all cultural and has no bearing on what kind of Christians we are. I, too, am an independent woman, and my future husband feels just as strongly as I do that we will come to decisions together., bear equal burdens, etc.

 

[Mskedi]

Well, thanks to all the responses, its much appreciated!

It's such a struggle right now for me. Sometimes, as much as I want to believe in God, it's hard. After being in college for 4 years, and having a heavy science background, I feel myself reading with a critical eye on the Bible. So much seems contradicting. I see so much oppression in the form of slavery. I see women oppressed, actually seen as almost evil, unclean, weak minded, and as a part of a man's property. And I can still see how these things influence even today. Just about 9 months ago my boyfriend proposed, but before he did it, he told me he thought he should ask my dad first. I was like, why?!!?!? I'm not a piece of property! I'm my own woman, and I make my own decisions. This is also why I object to my father walking me down the aisle "giving me away;" instead, my fiance are going to walk down the aisle together. I'm going off on a tangent, but what I'm trying to say is I see a lot of the evil that has been done in the name of religion, as well as the oppression: because women are to blame for "original sin" we can't be spiritual leaders, holy wars, Inquisition, polygamy, etc.

I don't know that I am against the concept of there being a God, but I don't know that Christianity has it all right. I find it hard to believe that, with so many world religions, ONLY Christianity is the way to go. Can't we see that ALL the world religions think they are the ONLY WAY! Why are we so sure?

Sex before marriage: this is so confusing to me. For one thing, polygamy was obviously practiced during Biblical times, and although people say that God didn't condone it, I know one man (forget who) who "found favor in the eyes of God" had many wives and concubines, so obviously it wasn't really looked unfavorably upon. Yet premarital sex is so wrong? My fiance and I have been together for over 4 years now and sex is a wonderful, loving experience together. Just because we haven't gone through the ceremony yet we are living in absolute sin?

At the same time, since I was raised Christian, it had a very powerful effect on me. I'm scared NOT to believe in God, even if it doesn't seem logical to me that He exists, just out of tradition I guess. I think anything children are told at a very young age can impact them for the rest of their lives. For example, I still can't sleep with my arm dangling over the edge of the bed because the boogeyman might grab me and pull me under!

I dunno. I guess what I'm saying is I want to believe, but my feminist, scientific, and logical thinker parts of my personality are greatly hindering this. I guess that's why I titled this "on the outside looking in."

I don't know what to say except that we seem to have a lot in common. It's quite possible your exact words have come out of my mouth at times (except I was an English major ).

Somehow I reconciled it. I'm a liberal Christian. I'm unpopular in some circles, but I do what I believe is right.

 

[BelieveWhatJesusSaid]

on the inside looking in