On the futility of evidence-based apologetics

[HitchSlap]

Well, what made the material world,in you opinion...and demonstrate? To answer your question, it's demonstrable by looking (also hearing, feeling, and smelling...and any other sense) around at what is "seen" (experienced by every aspect of our being). Even now, far back (or down) have physicists conjectured...from one tiny thing to a tinnier thing, to....ad infinitum....and have we even seen an atom...tis invisible...hmmmmm...

Yes, things exist, I get it. You're the one making the claim a spirit thing made it. This is what I'd like to see demonstrated.

 

[Tone]

Yes, things exist, I get it. You're the one making the claim a spirit thing made it. This is what I'd like to see demonstrated.

I don't know how that post of mine got so jacked up.

I am re posting:

"Well, what made the material world,in your opinion...and demonstrate? To answer your question, it's demonstrable by looking (also hearing, feeling, and smelling...and any other sense) around at what is "seen" (experienced by every aspect of our being). Even now, how far back (or down) have physicists conjectured...from one tiny thing to a tinnier thing, to....ad infinitum....and have we even seen an atom...tis invisible...hmmmmm..."

 

[Tone]

Yes, things exist, I get it. You're the one making the claim a spirit thing made it. This is what I'd like to see demonstrated.

"Spirit thing" is kind of oxymoronic. Thing didn't come from thing, thing came from no thing.

*If it were demonstrable, then the inverse would be true.

 

[Tone]

Thing came from Person.

 

[Tone]

Consciousness.

 

[HitchSlap]

I don't know how that post of mine got so jacked up.

I was simply asking you to demonstrate that a spirit made anything.

I am re posting:

Fine, I'll parse this out for you.

"Well, what made the material world,in your opinion

I have no idea. Maybe it's always existed.

...and demonstrate?

I can't demonstrate it, but I'm willing to bet that if we ever figure it out, it will be a natural explanation observed from the scientific method, and not from prayer.

To answer your question,

Yes, please. The question is: Please demonstrate a spirit (and not purple pixies farting on Thursdays) created everything.

it's demonstrable by looking (also hearing, feeling, and smelling...and any other sense) around at what is "seen" (experienced by every aspect of our being).

Yes, we both agree, things exist (this is axiomatic).

Even now, how far back (or down) have physicists conjectured...from one tiny thing to a tinnier thing, to....ad infinitum....and have we even seen an atom...tis invisible...hmmmmm..."

This is non sequitur, but you should take a look at this and understand why we think atoms exist. It's really not that mysterious, and is a logical progression of the scientific method.

How do we know that things are really made of atoms?

 

[Tone]

I was simply asking you to demonstrate that a spirit made anything.


Fine, I'll parse this out for you.


I have no idea. Maybe it's always existed.

I can't demonstrate it, but I'm willing to bet that if we ever figure it out, it will be a natural explanation observed from the scientific method, and not from prayer.

Yes, please. The question is: Please demonstrate a spirit (and not purple pixies farting on Thursdays) created everything.

Yes, we both agree, things exist (this is axiomatic).

This is non sequitur, but you should take a look at this and understand why we think atoms exist. It's really not that mysterious, and is a logical progression of the scientific method.

How do we know that things are really made of atoms?

Did you see my posts #'s 243, 244, and 245?

And have you read any of my material (pun intended) on words as energy?

 

[Tone]

Yes, please. The question is: Please demonstrate a spirit (and not purple pixies farting on Thursdays) created everything.

This conversation is a demonstration of spirit...invisible words...

*Are your words matter?

**My words matter...

 

[HitchSlap]

Thing came from Person.

I have no idea what you're even trying to convey here. Would you like to take another run at it?

Please demonstrate a "spirit" created anything.

 

[Tone]

I have no idea what you're even trying to convey here. Would you like to take another run at it?

Please demonstrate a "spirit" created anything.

Well, on a smaller (much smaller) scale,don't we speaking (words/energy) and acting human beings create? So isn't stuff formed by what is "spirit" (unseen force)?

*Granted,we take from what is already there, but take a computer,for instance, did it not come from idea?

 

[HitchSlap]

This conversation is a demonstration of spirit...invisible words...

This is incoherent.

*Are your words matter?

Again, incoherent.

**My words matter...

I believe that you're really trying to make a point here, I just have no idea what it is.

Maybe you should take a step back and ELI5.

 

[Tone]

Okay...the Creator (Person) created through His Word...He Spoke. We, as the one creature described as being in His Image, also speak (how bout that) and create. Now, these words are demonstrably very powerful, as the Bible attests to through and through and as is demonstrated by everything that you see, as "natural" creation, and in everything you see that we have created. Are you catching any sort of glimpse here?

 

[HitchSlap]

Well, on a smaller (much smaller) scale,don't we speaking (words/energy) and acting human beings create? So isn't stuff formed by what is "spirit" (unseen force)?

*Granted,we take from what is already there, but take a computer,for instance, did in not come from idea?

So basic science might be in order here: Conservation of mass & energy - matter can neither be created or destroyed.

You seem to be conflating "spirit" with, an "unseen force." Spirits, by definition are immaterial. Immaterial by definition, cannot become material - if you think that this is not the case, you'll need to demonstrate this.

 

[Tone]

So basic science might be in order here: Conservation of mass & energy - matter can neither be created or destroyed.

You seem to be conflating "spirit" with, an "unseen force." Spirits, by definition are immaterial. Immaterial by definition, cannot become material - if you think that this is not the case, you'll need to demonstrate this.

Okay, so you want to use the word "formed"? I'm okay with that.

 

[Tone]

if you think that this is not the case, you'll need to demonstrate this.

How about E=mc^2...

 

[gaara4158]

One of the central concerns of metaphysics is causality, and that is implicitly or explicitly what if-then statements are all about. What you say here seems very, very hard to defend. Even the inevitable forays into Humean problems of induction will strongly implicate metaphysics. Even weak postulates about "constant conjunction" and predictability are metaphysical statements.

To state it very simply, descriptions of the behavior of reality can never fully prescind from questions regarding the nature of reality. As the Scholastics observed, behavior follows upon nature / act follows upon being.

Well, if predictability is a metaphysical statement then I’ll have to retract all that, but my point was that all of science and knowledge don’t necessarily get swallowed up in a void of subjectivity unless objective idealism is true, as presuppositionalists argue.

 

[HitchSlap]

Okay...the Creator (Person)

Yes, this "Creator (Person)," is the guy you need to demonstrate actually exists.

created through His Word...He Spoke. We, as the one creature described as being in His Image, also speak (how bout that) and create.

How many universes have you spoken into existence?

Now, these words are demonstrably very powerful, as the Bible attests to through and through and as is demonstrated by everything that you see, as "natural" creation, and in everything you see that we have created. Are you catching any sort of glimpse here?

Yes, I see clearly that you're making unsupportable claims. Just because you have an old book doesn't make it any more true.

 

[Tone]

How many universes have you spoken into existence?

I don't know, do you consider this convo. as a little universe?

 

[Tone]

Yes, this "Creator (Person)," is the guy you need to demonstrate actually exists.

Look up...look down...look all around...

 

[HitchSlap]

I don't know, do you consider this convo. as a little universe?

All right then, hit me up when you're interested in having an adult convo.

Adios.