• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

On peace

OfTheWorld

On my own path, to the top of my own mountain.
Jun 4, 2012
10
0
✟22,634.00
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Green
Two quotes common in the bible pick at my brain lately.
The famous "And eye for an eye" and "Turn the other cheek"
I have my opinion but I would like to hear the viewpoints of christians here.

I am not wanting to start a debate, just to learn how the versus are applied to your life and how you interpret them. (if you do apply both, or merely one)

Peace and love.
 

Tinker Grey

Wanderer
Site Supporter
Feb 6, 2002
11,742
6,298
Erewhon
Visit site
✟1,142,432.00
Faith
Atheist
Well, the sub-forum "Exploring Christianity" might be more suitable for this question.

As a former Christian, I'll get the ball rolling.

It seems clear that "an eye for an eye" is a governmental issue. It is a directive to the "people of Israel" as a society and not to individuals executing vigilante justice. Interestingly, some Jewish scholars will aver that this is not a mandate but rather an upper limit to the punishment. That is, there is a maximum. Beyond "X" is not reasonable.

"Turn the other cheek", OTOH, is addressed to inviduals, Jesus' disciples. IOW, it is a personal ethic. Now how one could have this ethic and still apply to the gov't for redress, I don't know.

Too, it had been my view as a Christian that this ethic was more in line with how I would respond when someone might persecute me for my beliefs. I was under no obligation to let a mugger rob me, or stand by and watch while my spouse is raped. However, I have some Christian pacifist relatives that do indeed hold to this idea. My FIL has said should his family be attacked, he would get down on his knees and pray. I always found that horrifying.
 
Upvote 0

juvenissun

... and God saw that it was good.
Apr 5, 2007
25,452
805
73
Chicago
✟138,626.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Two quotes common in the bible pick at my brain lately.
The famous "And eye for an eye" and "Turn the other cheek"
I have my opinion but I would like to hear the viewpoints of christians here.

I am not wanting to start a debate, just to learn how the versus are applied to your life and how you interpret them. (if you do apply both, or merely one)

Peace and love.

Eye for an eye is easy to do.
Turn the other cheek is harder (the more times to turn, the harder).
And don't forget you do have the third option.

If you want to train yourself (for your own benefit), then turn your cheek first. If you are still capable, then turn your cheek again, and again. Until you can not turn it any more, then either run away, or give an eye back.

The more times you turned your cheek, the higher capability you have and the higher level you are. So, it is up to the person to choose.

By the way, do you know how many times of turning the cheek is suggested by the Lord Jesus?
 
Upvote 0

CalledOutOne

The World Weary
Apr 12, 2012
815
55
Moved.
Visit site
✟23,749.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
In Relationship
38 “You have heard that it was said, An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. 39 But I tell you, don’t resist an evildoer. On the contrary, if anyone slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 As for the one who wants to sue you and take away your shirt, let him have your coat as well. 41 And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and don’t turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
43 “You have heard that it was said, Love your neighbor and hate your enemy. 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. For He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward will you have? Don’t even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing out of the ordinary? Don’t even the Gentiles do the same? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. (Matthew 5:38-48 HCSB)​

22 “When men get in a fight and hit a pregnant woman so that her children are born prematurely but there is no injury, the one who hit her must be fined as the woman’s husband demands from him, and he must pay according to judicial assessment. 23 If there is an injury, then you must give life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, bruise for bruise, wound for wound. (Exodus 21:22-25)​

I believe that the two passages above do not contradict. People often mistake the verses.

The Pharisees took the passage from exodus to mean, "If you hit me then I am entitled to hitting you back," but according to Jesus' words, that's not what the text means. Jesus was upholding the Law. He corrected His disciples from the poison of the Pharisees to the true meaning of the text.

Jesus wasn't teaching against civil justice for assault, He was merely teaching an old truth of the Law, to love your enemy. As the Law of Exodus also said:

If you come across your enemy’s stray ox or donkey, you must return it to him. If you see the donkey of someone who hates you lying helpless under its load, and you want to refrain from helping it, you must help with it. (Exodus 23:4-5 HCSB)​

Thus Jesus upheld this by teaching us to love our enemies. So what was Jesus forbidding in the fifth chapter of Matthew? He was forbidding personal retaliation done in wrath, in lieu of civil justice. It is perfectly fine to demand justice when someone does something wrong, but it is sinful to take matters into your own hands, hold grudges, and seek revenge (Matt 18:21-35; Romans 12:19).

As Jesus said, the Pharisees often neglected one of the most important aspects of the Law: Justice (Matt 23:23-24).


Hope this helps you get a look at the Christian's view on the verses.
 
Upvote 0

OfTheWorld

On my own path, to the top of my own mountain.
Jun 4, 2012
10
0
✟22,634.00
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Green
Thank you for your opinions. I never said they contradict, i merely stated the two versus and wanted a christian opinion on what both meant, the context, how to apply it to your life. i may be a pagan, but my coven (and many others) follow the teachings of jesus along with buddah, ghandi, muhammad, and other teachers of peace and tolerance. I believe in turning the other cheek and that "an eye for an eye leads to a blind world"
I especially appreciate Tinker Greys remark.
 
Upvote 0

juvenissun

... and God saw that it was good.
Apr 5, 2007
25,452
805
73
Chicago
✟138,626.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Thank you for your opinions. I never said they contradict, i merely stated the two versus and wanted a christian opinion on what both meant, the context, how to apply it to your life. i may be a pagan, but my coven (and many others) follow the teachings of jesus along with buddah, ghandi, muhammad, and other teachers of peace and tolerance. I believe in turning the other cheek and that "an eye for an eye leads to a blind world"
I especially appreciate Tinker Greys remark.

How to get to a world which is not blind?
 
Upvote 0

OfTheWorld

On my own path, to the top of my own mountain.
Jun 4, 2012
10
0
✟22,634.00
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Green
How to get to a world which is not blind?
Simple, as Ghandi said "Be the change you wish to see in the world"
So since I want to live in a world of peace and understanding, I show peace and do my best to learn and understand all peoples of all cultures.

We ( I believe) can not attain world peace until we can fully understand one another, from our culture, diet, and religion; to our struggles, our pain, and our dreams.
understanding leads to peace i believe.
So as a christian, just live a life of peace as jesus said, lead by example, not by words. People will feed off of your positive energy and over time you will encourage more peace.
 
Upvote 0

juvenissun

... and God saw that it was good.
Apr 5, 2007
25,452
805
73
Chicago
✟138,626.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Simple, as Ghandi said "Be the change you wish to see in the world"
So since I want to live in a world of peace and understanding, I show peace and do my best to learn and understand all peoples of all cultures.


We ( I believe) can not attain world peace until we can fully understand one another, from our culture, diet, and religion; to our struggles, our pain, and our dreams.
understanding leads to peace i believe.
So as a christian, just live a life of peace as jesus said, lead by example, not by words. People will feed off of your positive energy and over time you will encourage more peace.

Why do you think people are NOT doing that?
 
Upvote 0

OfTheWorld

On my own path, to the top of my own mountain.
Jun 4, 2012
10
0
✟22,634.00
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Green
Why do you think people are NOT doing that?
Why do i think people are not doing "that"? By "that" are you referring to "love and understanding of cultures?" or the "leading by example and not by words" part?

I had difficulty understanding what exactly you were asking.
 
Upvote 0

MorkandMindy

Andrew Yang's Forward Party
Site Supporter
Dec 16, 2006
7,401
785
New Mexico
✟265,487.00
Country
United States
Faith
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
On Peace
...
I am not wanting to start a debate, just to learn how the versus are applied to your life and how you interpret them. (if you do apply both, or merely one)

Peace and love.

Well, the sub-forum "Exploring Christianity" might be more suitable for this question.

...


It could equally be a political forum so perhaps philosophy is the right place.

Applied to the nation of the US in the W Bush Born-Again administration it was the eye-for-an-eye that was used. 3,000 were killed in 911 so the Born-Again administration attacked Iraq and killed 150,000.

All the Fundamentalists I've spoken to are of the guns and more guns, kill them all and we like capital punishment variety.

If the same 50:1 ratio was applied to retribution within the US there would be nobody left.


Fortunately there are far more Americans of a more peaceful disposition.
 
Upvote 0

juvenissun

... and God saw that it was good.
Apr 5, 2007
25,452
805
73
Chicago
✟138,626.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Why do i think people are not doing "that"? By "that" are you referring to "love and understanding of cultures?" or the "leading by example and not by words" part?

I had difficulty understanding what exactly you were asking.

Both, or all of what you said.

I say that most people in the world are are trying to do "be the change you wish to see in the world", even when they do "eye for an eye". So, the behavior will not lead to a blind world (as you defined it).
 
Upvote 0