On 'Demonic Posession' from..

[JesusFreak7777]

The other thread that I cant even talk on.. here is what I would say,,

I was afflicted by the devil with shizophrenia, so called 'Demons'. Any mental illness which can be "spirits that afflict you". Can be over come through prair faith hope and glory to god.!! My testiment to shizophrenia. is that it was devil posession.

 

[feral]

You are suggesting that schizophrenia is demonically inspired? I don't believe that. My maternal grandmother was schizophrenic, however she was also an extremely loving and devout Christian; she is the only person I know who accepted faith like breathing. In her later years, before she was diagnosed, her behaviour and attitude became erratic and frightening, but after a brief hospitalization and once she started taking regular medications all those symptoms vanished. There was no change in her religion or her feelings on God, nor did she ever do something like have an exorcism. How can you explain man-made drugs healing something demonic, because it was most definitely healed?

Demon possession is an interesting topic, but I find the idea that demons cause mental illness to be archaic and a bit naive. It seems to be a way for "healthy" (or maybe just undiagnosed) people to distance themselves from mental illness, and to make it seem like those who have mental illnesses are to blame somehow for the problem. I'll admit, mental illnesses can be really scary. I was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder and I'm a cutter, which freaks people out, and I can understand why someone would think that is such a weird problem that it must be inspired by demons or some inhuman force, but it isn't. Most of these illnesses are caused by chemical imbalances, traumas, life events, etc, and are usually cured or at least significantly improved by counselling or medication, or some combination treatment, not involving exorcism.

It's interesting that the new movie coming out, "Emily Rose" something or other, claims to be a true story. Are there any indisputed accounts of possession?

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

The other thread that I cant even talk on.. here is what I would say,,

I was afflicted by the devil with shizophrenia, so called 'Demons'. Any mental illness which can be "spirits that afflict you". Can be over come through prair faith hope and glory to god.!! My testiment to shizophrenia. is that it was devil posession.

Were you diagnosed? Did it suddenly go away, without any treatment?

 

[Boomygrrl]

Schizophrenia is a result of having too much dopamine in your system.
It's a chemical imbalance. That's all there is to it. No demons, no sinful living, nothing but just how someone was made. A person with schizophrenia has too much dopamine. A person with hypoglycemia has too much insulin. It's all natural. We're not born perfect. Attribute it to the evolutionary spectrum or the fallen world because of SIN. That's for another discussion. But to say that a particular person is demon possessed is to ignore the wonders science has done to treat them. Unfortunately, I do not know of any exorcism or prayers that "cured" schizophrenia. Unfortunately, medical treatment doesn't cure it either, but it does treat it. Many can lead normal lives with medication.


Boomygrrl

 

[MoonlessNight]

Demonic possession and mental illness are two different things entirely. When you start looking at purported cases of demonic posessions (at least when you look at what some organization; like an Orthodox sect or the Roman Catholic church deem to be an actual possession. If you don't limit yourself to things like this you get too many random cases which were determined by one uninformed person) the first thing that you notice is that beyond some things such as perhaps minor hallucinations or unusual obsessions there is very little about a possessed person that would make you think that they were mentally ill. In fact many that I have come across were able to function perfectly well with most people. The symptoms of demonic possession (again in an ordered investigation, instead of what was commonly thought to be demonic possession) usually require supernatural elements, such as unnatural burst of strength, or the knowledge of things that the possessed could not possibly know, or the ability to understand languages unknown to the possessed. Unless mental diseases function drastically differently than how we understand them, this seems to rule out mental diseases in these cases.

Things do get muddied, however, as there have been a great amount of misdiagnosis, especially when you go further back in history.

Though I can't vouch for the accuracy of it (since there is really no way to check up on things and since the author has said some rather bizzare and astounding things), Hostage to the Devil, by Malachi Martin is still probably one of the best books on demonic possession out there. The actual cases he presents might never have happened (I certainly have my doubts considering how each one seems tailored to hammer a theological point away), but his perspective on the phenomena is incredibly valuble.

 

[""]

I wouldn't be too quick to tell him that his schizophrenia experience was not caused by demonic experience. None of you know what he went through, nor do you know how it has affected him now. None of you should attempt to rob him of his spiritual freedom if he has indeed been set free of demonic possession. Only Jesus can set him free.

What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? Romans 8:31


None of you can add to that or take from it. Medication cannot set him free, but it could have curbed the behavior and the delusions typically associated with schizophrenia. If this man says he is free, and he claims that Jesus set him free. I say praise God.

That said...

Typically schizophrenia is treated as a mental illness, and medication is a must. Counseling does nothing for schizophrenics as they are generally delusional to the point that they cannot even tell if the counselor's voice is a real one. There have been cases of mentally ill people being freed from their mental illness after taking part in an exorcism, and I would certainly never tell anybody that they shouldn't try it. There have also been cases of people who have died during exorcism's because the people doing it, had no idea what they were up against, in both a spiritual and medical sense.

 

[JesusFreak7777]

I would say people have mental illness's if maybe people get born with half a brain . You just dont make up voices in your head chemical imbalance, or not or the 'paranoia'. The new testiment says there is demons("possesion") devils and evil spirits. Having gone through paranoid 'shizophrenia' for 3 years YES 3, AND with 3 hospital visits!, Breaking out once surrendering peacefully after cutting myself up hehe... Going through absolute hell(and being raped by a MAN) but I absolutely believe jesus was still protecting me. My soul spirit flesh have changed. Im glad im alive today and is a miracle, glory to god. Just dont forget or shun that the devil isnt still around today he came to kill destroy and lie. Sorry to offend you this is just what happen to me.

 

[Nymphalidae]

I wouldn't be too quick to tell him that his schizophrenia experience was not caused by demonic experience.

Demons aren't a cause, they are a symptom.

 

[MoonlessNight]

Demons aren't a cause, they are a symptom.

A symptom of something which in no way resembles classical demonic possession.

Demons are part of our culture, of course they would appear in mental disorders. It should be no suprise to anyone that schizophrenics hear what they may call demons and that people with sleep paralysis see what they may call demons. The mind works with what it has, after all.

Why any of this should imply anything about demonic possession, which really was never that similar to schizophrenia, is beyond me.

 

[Nymphalidae]

A symptom of something which in no way resembles classical demonic possession.

Demons are part of our culture, of course they would appear in mental disorders. It should be no suprise to anyone that schizophrenics hear what they may call demons and that people with sleep paralysis see what they may call demons. The mind works with what it has, after all.

Why any of this should imply anything about demonic possession, which really was never that similar to schizophrenia, is beyond me.

My point was that demons aren't real.

 

[""]

Demons aren't a cause, they are a symptom.

What? Seriously... WHAT???? You don't believe in God. You don't believe in satan. You don't believe in demons.

You said so here:

My point was that demons aren't real.

Giving your opinion on what they are and what they are not, is like somebody who doesn't believe in grass, defining which blades grow in what parts of the world, and why. Tooooo funny!

 

[JesusFreak7777]

yeah

 

[Silent Bob]

What? Seriously... WHAT???? You don't believe in God. You don't believe in satan. You don't believe in demons.

I believe in God and I too have to agree that demons are NOT the cause of mental illness. The debate has been settled since the 19th century (maybe before that too) so feel free to join us anytime.

 

[""]

I believe in God and I too have to agree that demons are NOT the cause of mental illness. The debate has been settled since the 19th century (maybe before that too) so feel free to join us anytime.

People said the same about this boy, whose afflictions seemed to be that he was deaf, didn't speak, and had seizures:

Jesus had several earthly encounters with demons. The first encounter for discussion is found in the book of Mark 9:14 - 20 KJVAnd when he came to his disiciples, he saw a great multitude about them, and the scribes questioning them. And straightway all the people, when they beheld him, were greatly amazed, and running to him saluted him.

And he asked the scribes, What question ye with them?

And one of the multitude answered and said, Master, I have brought unto thee my son, which hath a dumb spirit; And wheresoever he taketh him, he teareth him: and he foameth, and gnasheth with his teeth, and pineth away: and I spake to thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not.

He answerth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me. And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him: and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming.

And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came unto him? And he said, Of a child. And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire; and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us.

Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him. And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead.



But Jesus took him by the hand, and lifted him up; and he arose.

And when he was come into the house, his disciples asked him privately, Why could we not cast him out? And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.​

​

They were wrong. We don't always know what is causing illnesses, and disabilities. Sometimes the cause may very well be biological. Other times it may not be. God knows. Jesus knew.


Feel free to join those of us who put our faith in CHRIST and not mankind, anytime.
​

 

[Silent Bob]

The person in the story might or might not have suffered from mental illness the truth of the matter is that we know what causes shizophrenia. We have done research and we can tell what causes it stop trying to tear down logic with your own understanding of the Bible.

 

[JesusFreak7777]

No one knows what is truely logical absolutely they just know right and wrong. Which is self evident in man.

 

[""]

The person in the story might or might not have suffered from mental illness the truth of the matter is that we know what causes shizophrenia. We have done research and we can tell what causes it stop trying to tear down logic with your own understanding of the Bible.

It's SCHIZOPHRENIA, with a C. What do you mean 'we' have done research? You and who? I would suggest you study logic a bit more. Logic, reasoning, and truth are not enemies. They are fast friends. Jesus is The Truth, therefore, all true logic emanates from Him, not you.

 

[JesusFreak7777]

Well, sorry you did not like my humor! Anyways I invent good things not bad things.

 

[Boomygrrl]

Schizophrenia is real. It has been well researched.
I don't know JesusFreak and cannot diagnose him. However, if he truly had schizophrenia, it is a mental illness, not demon possession. I am no expert on demon possession. I don't believe in it, but that doesn't mean it's not true.
If he was possessed by demons and is now free from it, great...I'm happy for you.
There is criteria to help diagnose schizophrenia...either you met the criteria or you didn't.
The brain is like other organs in the body...it can malfunction. Kidneys, liver, heart, etc. You have too much of one chemical or not enough of another it can make things go out of whack...sometimes severely out of whack.
Why can we believe in diabetes, cancer, heart attacks but not believe in mental illness? Mental illness are physical problems just like the others, but because the word "mental" is attached to it, people thing they can will themselves out of their problems. Try to will yourself out of diabetes.
The brain is a fascinating study.

Boomygrrl

 

[Nymphalidae]

What? Seriously... WHAT???? You don't believe in God. You don't believe in satan. You don't believe in demons.

You said so here:

Giving your opinion on what they are and what they are not, is like somebody who doesn't believe in grass, defining which blades grow in what parts of the world, and why. Tooooo funny!

Congratulations, you've completely missed my point. Let me clarify. Demons are not real and thus cannot cause mental illness. However, believing oneself to be possessed by demons or believing in demonic possession may very well be a sign of mental illness.