On a planet far far away.

[consol]

There is a planet about 234,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 miles away,
on it there are people who think they are the only people in the universe,
well we know that's not true, don't we, because we are here as well,
at this point I expect you're wondering how I know this, well I don't, but I believe they are there,
why? because no one can prove they are not, so who can say they don't exist?

This is the same crazy reasoning creationists use, (especially Dad and AV)
they don't know about something so they can make up whatever they want and expect some crazy nut to believe it,
and if Mom and Dad say it, it must be true, because they wouldn't knowingly lie to their children would they?
or would they?

If parents do not at least make some effort to find out if what they are telling their children is true or not,
they are not doing a very good job of raising their children, and a creationist who tells their children about
creationism would do America (and everyone else) a favour and have their childrens brains surgically removed,
instead of filling them with creationist rubbish, (which only kills the brain) then America could possibly move forward.

What would you say about a parent who insisted that their children believe that Santa Claus was real?

Creationism is most definitely, 100%, without a doubt child abuse as is Mormonism, Scientology,
and all of the other unbelievable myths parents insist on indoctrinating their children with,
politicians want nothing to do with religion (unless they want to use it for their own ends)
while people are messing about worrying about their next life they leave politicians alone,
imagine how much time people would have if there were no such things as religions,
the politicians would be forced to invent religion all over again,
Politicians didn't invent religion but they also don't try to stop the excesses of religion,
and don't say they can't stop it, they could if the will was there,
just as easy as they could stop the drug problem, they could if they really wanted to.

They watch as people starve in their own country and say there's no money to feed them,
but they can find more than enough money to go to war, politicians do what they want when they want.

 

[Hespera]

There is a planet about 234,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 miles away,
on it there are people who think they are the only people in the universe,
well we know that's not true, don't we, because we are here as well,
at this point I expect you're wondering how I know this, well I don't, but I believe they are there,
why? because no one can prove they are not, so who can say they don't exist?

This is the same crazy reasoning creationists use, (especially Dad and AV)
they don't know about something so they can make up whatever they want and expect some crazy nut to believe it,
and if Mom and Dad say it, it must be true, because they wouldn't knowingly lie to their children would they?
or would they?

If parents do not at least make some effort to find out if what they are telling their children is true or not,
they are not doing a very good job of raising their children, and a creationist who tells their children about
creationism would do America (and everyone else) a favour and have their childrens brains surgically removed,
instead of filling them with creationist rubbish, (which only kills the brain) then America could possibly move forward.

What would you say about a parent who insisted that their children believe that Santa Claus was real?

Creationism is most definitely, 100%, without a doubt child abuse as is Mormonism, Scientology,
and all of the other unbelievable myths parents insist on indoctrinating their children with,
politicians want nothing to do with religion (unless they want to use it for their own ends)
while people are messing about worrying about their next life they leave politicians alone,
imagine how much time people would have if there were no such things as religions,
the politicians would be forced to invent religion all over again,
Politicians didn't invent religion but they also don't try to stop the excesses of religion,
and don't say they can't stop it, they could if the will was there,
just as easy as they could stop the drug problem, they could if they really wanted to.

They watch as people starve in their own country and say there's no money to feed them,
but they can find more than enough money to go to war, politicians do what they want when they want.

consol delivers his long sermon, to the choir.

 

[consol]

consol delivers his long sermon, to the choir.

You may well have something there, another term would be, 'flogging a dead horse',
for people who can bring themselves to believe the idiocies of a religion,
not seeing what they see and not hearing what they hear becomes second nature, they seem able to shut out reality,
I don't suppose they even think how idiotic their beliefs really are, it all passes right over their heads,
and the older they get it seems the more they are prepared to believe, no matter how ridiculous it is,
a bit like, 'in for a penny, in for a pound', what's one more crazy belief amongst friends, bring em on.

 

[Split Rock]

consol delivers his long sermon, to the choir.

Ahh yes... at least we know that consol never changes.. he is as constant as the North Star. (yes, I know the North Star does change, but not within my lifetime.)

 

[shernren]

How many parents who tell their kids that the earth is round have actually investigated for themselves that this is indeed the case?

Or that brushing teeth fights decay?

Or that kissing a boo-boo makes it feel better?

Parents tell kids things which are expected to be believed on authority all the time. That isn't child abuse, that's dealing with the frail and all too finite educational window every child has.

 

[AV1611VET]

Ahh yes... at least we know that consol never changes.. he is as constant as the North Star. (yes, I know the North Star does change, but not within my lifetime.)

I view Consol as under deep conviction to get saved, and he's shaking it off with strong emotions (probably in the anger range); just as I view other atheists trying to shake off that feeling with reasoning.

 

[consol]

Parents tell kids things which are expected to be believed on authority all the time. That isn't child abuse, that's dealing with the frail and all too finite educational window every child has.

And which screwball told them that creationism is the right thing to teach their children?

If children grow up to be creationists then they have most definitely been subjected to child abuse,
and you don't need to take my word, just ask any EX CREATIONIST,
if they fill a childs head with creationism it proves that the parents have also been damaged.

 

[Hespera]

And which screwball told them that creationism is the right thing to teach their children?

If children grow up to be creationists then they have most definitely been subjected to child abuse,
and you don't need to take my word, just ask any EX CREATIONIST,
if they fill a childs head with creationism it proves that the parents have also been damaged.

Children are of course by nature going to believe what they are told. Natural selection no doubt has been very hard on the ones who didnt get the idea when told dont eat that, dont touch that, dont go there etc.

The power that parents have is so great that it really really needs to be used responsibly.

I remember one time this lady told her like 3 yr old at the store, the poor kid just wanted to touch the glass of the goldfish tank. NO! they will bite!
That was sad to see, but no big harm in it i suppose... tho i wonder what else that woman did to her child.

i saw in another forum thread, someone was all about how she taught her child that she is wicked and sinful. Little kid you know, tell her that. That is really sick. All done with total self righteousness too.


Filling them with heaven and hell and monsters and devils and magic goes way past the edge and deep into child abuse.

 

[gaara4158]

I view Consol as under deep conviction to get saved, and he's shaking it off with strong emotions (probably in the anger range); just as I view other atheists trying to shake off that feeling with reasoning.

Maybe that's why you fail so terribly. I can only speak for myself, but there is no such deep conviction in me. Remove your bias, then look at our arguments, and then perhaps... PERHAPS you will be able to construct a useful argument for yourself.

 

[AV1611VET]

Maybe that's why you fail so terribly.

No --- people "like me" fail so terribly because we are approaching the end times, which Jesus compared to the "days of Noah."

You remember Noah?

He preached for 120 years and didn't win a single convert.

 

[gaara4158]

No --- people "like me" fail so terribly because we are approaching the end times, which Jesus compared to the "days of Noah."

You remember Noah?

He preached for 120 years and didn't win a single convert.

ah, and i'm sure they all had a "deep conviction" to be saved as well.

 

[AV1611VET]

ah, and i'm sure they all had a "deep conviction" to be saved as well.

Well, like I say, I do believe that most of them got saved when the waters started rising. So had it not been for Noah, they may have never heard the Gospel.

And, yes, I'm sure they all had a deep conviction at one time.

 

[gaara4158]

Well, like I say, I do believe that most of them got saved when the waters started rising. So had it not been for Noah, they may have never heard the Gospel.

The flood predates the Gospel, actually.

 

[gaara4158]

<staff edit>

Oh that's right. Thanks, Hespera. Don't take my statement that the Flood predates something to be a concession that it did indeed take place.

Grendel's adventures predate those of Harry Potter as well.

 

[CACTUSJACKmankin]

There is a planet about 234,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 miles away,
on it there are people who think they are the only people in the universe,
well we know that's not true, don't we, because we are here as well,
at this point I expect you're wondering how I know this, well I don't, but I believe they are there,
why? because no one can prove they are not, so who can say they don't exist?

This is the same crazy reasoning creationists use, (especially Dad and AV)
they don't know about something so they can make up whatever they want and expect some crazy nut to believe it,
and if Mom and Dad say it, it must be true, because they wouldn't knowingly lie to their children would they?
or would they?

If parents do not at least make some effort to find out if what they are telling their children is true or not,
they are not doing a very good job of raising their children, and a creationist who tells their children about
creationism would do America (and everyone else) a favour and have their childrens brains surgically removed,
instead of filling them with creationist rubbish, (which only kills the brain) then America could possibly move forward.

What would you say about a parent who insisted that their children believe that Santa Claus was real?

Creationism is most definitely, 100%, without a doubt child abuse as is Mormonism, Scientology,
and all of the other unbelievable myths parents insist on indoctrinating their children with,
politicians want nothing to do with religion (unless they want to use it for their own ends)
while people are messing about worrying about their next life they leave politicians alone,
imagine how much time people would have if there were no such things as religions,
the politicians would be forced to invent religion all over again,
Politicians didn't invent religion but they also don't try to stop the excesses of religion,
and don't say they can't stop it, they could if the will was there,
just as easy as they could stop the drug problem, they could if they really wanted to.

They watch as people starve in their own country and say there's no money to feed them,
but they can find more than enough money to go to war, politicians do what they want when they want.

hmmm? mommy is church over yet?

 

[AV1611VET]

The flood predates the Gospel, actually.

It does, huh? Interesting --- that's news to me.

 

[AV1611VET]

<staff edit>
Thank you ---

And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Actually --- childlike --- not childish.

 

[gaara4158]

It does, huh? Interesting --- that's news to me.

I'm sure.

Thank you --- Originally Posted by Matthew 18:3

And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
​

Actually --- childlike --- not childish.

That was pretty smart of Jesus. Tell everyone to suspend reason and rationality, and become like little children lest you be cast into the fiery pit of Hell. Fear over logic ftw.


In a more generous translation, Jesus meant that you should become like children in the sense that you should lose your lust, your greed, and your self-importance, not to lose your inquisitive mind and never question anything. Kids question things all the time; it gets pretty annoying, actually. You would do well to do the same.

 

[AV1611VET]

You would do well to do the same.

And at what point should I stop questioning, Gaara?

When can I question something, get the answer, then teach it to others, without someone saying, "You need to get off your high-horse"?

An 18 year old saying that to a 54 year old is quite a statement.

You guys' don't even know Basic Doctrine, and you think you're qualified to come in here and take on some of us, who have been studying doctrine longer than you are old?

I know one regular poster in here who claims he was saved at one time, and read the Bible from cover to cover --- yet he made one rookie mistake after another in trying to pin the Crusades on us, as well as stuff said by Martin Luther, and (I think) Leibnitz, and who knows who all else.

Even after I made it clear I was independent from all others, a KJVO, and a fundamental, he continued to try and make me somehow symbiotcally responsible; and it didn't work.

Now he has a strong dislike for me --- as I suspected would happen.

 

[gaara4158]

And at what point should I stop questioning, Gaara?

Question everything.

When can I question something, get the answer, then teach it to others, without someone saying, "You need to get off your high-horse"?

Once the answer has satisfied you intellectually, not just spiritually or faith-wise or whatever. Then you can teach it to others, and when your pupils ask questions that you perhaps didn't... perhaps you should ask whoever taught you rather than defending it blindly.

An 18 year old saying that to a 54 year old is quite a statement.

Too proud to learn from someone younger, are we?

You guys' don't even know Basic Doctrine, and you think you're qualified to come in here and take on some of us, who have been studying doctrine longer than you are old?

I can bet you, as someone who was put through Christian Preparatory School, that I know "Basic Doctrine" as well as you do. I also know the "basic doctrines" of buddhism, hinduism, and Islam. You, on the other hand, don't know basic science, and yet you dismiss it at the drop of a hat. It's almost as though you're scared to look into it, because then you won't have any excuse for believing what you do.

I know one regular poster in here who claims he was saved at one time, and read the Bible from cover to cover --- yet he made one rookie mistake after another in trying to pin the Crusades on us, as well as stuff said by Martin Luther, and (I think) Leibnitz, and who knows who all else.

Even after I made it clear I was independent from all others, a KJVO, and a fundamental, he continued to try and make me somehow symbiotcally responsible; and it didn't work.

Now he has a strong dislike for me --- as I suspected would happen.

Great story. It can take a hike.