herev said:
Pete, thanks for the input--you have obviously thought this out with great insight (you remind me of my theology professor)
However, could it be that: When Jesus, the 2nd person of the Trinity was here, the 1st person of the Trinity was in Heaven, and his Spirit, the third person was pervasive in all the creation? In considering God as omnipresent, aren't we, by necessity talking of all three, since the three are one?
As to Omnipotent, you again make a good argument, but I would say God can do anything, it simply is not sin if He does it. CAn he make a rock...Yes, He could, then he would change to be able to lift it, then the circle would start over--if he wanted.
And Omniscient, Jesus did not know the date of the return, but Jesus said the Father did--again, since in asking if God can do anything and the three are one, God knew then, and he knows know when the return will be.
I like your thinking--very critical and logical, but What if God doesn't follow our logic?
Just food for thought, no need to even answer if you choose not to.
Good answers!
Tommy
1 - "Aren't we, by necessity talking of all three, since the three are one?"
In a sense yes, but they aren't one in that they're necessarily in the same place. They're one in the sense of unity. In Deuteronomy 4:6, where it says "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one", what does it mean by "one"? It's the Hebrew word "echad", the same word used of man and women when they become "one" flesh. In fact, marriage is partly about the trinity - see Genesis 1:27, "male and female he created them" in his own image. God is unified yet diverse, and male and female reflect this, particularly in marriage where they are "one". So in 1 Corinthians 11, there is the mirror between man and woman just as between the Father and Christ. When man and woman become "one", that doesn't mean they have to be in the same place, or even have the same role. They don't become siamese twins! So while of course the Father, Son and Spirit are unified in will and purpose, and totally dependent on each other at all times in every way, they can still be in different places (and know different things).
I agree that we can say that the Spirit is everywhere, or at least can be, in a sense, but we need to be careful to generalising that to "God".
2 - Omnipotent.
Sin isn't just what God can and can't do. Sin is actually rejection of Jesus (John 16:9), and all the wrong things we do are simply the outworking of sin. But it's not that God can just do anything. He has a nature. He created us in his image. That means he HAS an image! He can't just decide what to be like, because that would deny his own nature. There are a lot of ifs here: he
could do something
if he wanted to. But the Bible never says he would want to do all these things, so my question would be: if the Bible isn't interested in hypothetical things God
could do
if he wanted, why are we so concerned about arguing for it?
3 - Omniscient.
As for omnipresence, the three can know different things, just as husband and wife who are "one" can know different things. We need to take the verse in Matthew 27 at face value. In emphasing the trinity's unity, we sometimes go too far and almost imply that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the same as each other, which of course is not true. The Father is unseeable and unknowable for example (John 1:18), whereas the Son is seeable and knowable, and he reveals the Father. The Spirit lives in us. All three have very different roles, yet they all work together.
My general concern in all this is that if we stick too much to terms the Bible never feels the need to refer to, then when we read the Bible, we're always reading it through the spectacles of our preconceived ideas, and we make the Bible fit our thinking. It should be the other way round, where we leave our preconceived ideas at the door and let the Bible form our thinking.
All the best,
Pete.
