Old Topic Revisited - Food Storage on the Ark

[bainecaileag86]

Ok, here's what my Ryrie study Bible has to say on this subject:

"A vessel of such dimensions would have a displacement of about 20,000 tons and gross tonage of about 14,000 tons. Its carrying capacity equaled that of 522 standard railroad stock cars (each of which can hold 240 sheep). Only 188 cars would required to hold 45,000 sheep-sized animals, leaving three trains of 104 cars each for food, Noah's family, and "range" for the animals. Today it is estimated that there are 17,600 species of animals, making 45,000 a likely approximation of the number Noah might have taken into the ark."

 

[TeddyKGB]

Seventeen thousand species of animals? There are probably that many species of beetle alone.

 

[ebia]

Seventeen thousand species of animals? There are probably that many species of beetle alone.

They probably mean land-dwelling vertibrates. You have to remember that biology is not a strong point for some people.

 

[Nooj]

Why do creationists have such a fascination for vertibrate animals? Insects are far more important to biodiversity than the cute and cuddly organisms we always see in Dr Dino's Noah's Ark pictures. *cough*

Biodiversity would be far more important after a catastrophic Flood than lions or load-bearing animals. Go insects!

 

[PrincetonGuy]

How much food would Noah have to store on the Ark, in order to feed all those animals, for all that time? And how much space would all that food take up?

When one considers that the food supply on the ark would have to maintain all of the animals and their offspring until all of the necessary the ecosystems on the earth could be reestablished, we can see very plainly that the Ark would have to be larger than the state of Connecticut in the United States.

Even the ancient Hebrew people who first read the Book of Genesis had enough knowledge and understanding of the natural sciences to realize that the story of Noah’s Ark was not intended to be understood as a literal account of an historic event. And today, in the light of current knowledge of genetics, we know for a fact that the number of genetically discreet populations of animals that would necessarily have been represented on the Ark would be in excess of 2,000,000, and possibly as high as 2,750,000.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

Seventeen thousand species of animals? There are probably that many species of beetle alone.

Actually, there are more than 1,000,000 genetically discreet populations of beetles--and beetles are very hungry creatures and consume huge amounts of food. These same genetically discreet populations of beetles existed at the time of the flood and would, therefore, necessarily have been aboard the Ark.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Actually, there are more than 1,000,000 genetically discreet populations of beetles--and beetles are very hungry creatures and consume huge amounts of food. These same genetically discreet populations of beetles existed at the time of the flood and would, therefore, necessarily have been aboard the Ark.

A while ago I posted on insect diversity and global flood.

http://www.christianforums.com/t40873

There are many species of insects that couldn't have survived on or off the ark. The latest creationist dodge is that Hebrews didn't really consider insects to have the breath of life so they didn't have to be on the ark. They ignore that Genesis says all creeping things not on the ark died and that Leviticus defines insects as creeping things. But that doesn't help because many whole orders of insects would have died out in a global flood. Of course the absence of insects to pollinate plants would have been a big problem except that with so many seeds destroyed by the long soak and no topsoil after this devastating flood there would have been few plants to pollinate anyway.

F.B.

 

[z3ro]

A while ago I posted on insect diversity and global flood.

http://www.christianforums.com/t40873

There are many species of insects that couldn't have survived on or off the ark. The latest creationist dodge is that Hebrews didn't really consider insects to have the breath of life so they didn't have to be on the ark. They ignore that Genesis says all creeping things not on the ark died and that Leviticus defines insects as creeping things. But that doesn't help because many whole orders of insects would have died out in a global flood. Of course the absence of insects to pollinate plants would have been a big problem except that with so many seeds destroyed by the long soak and no topsoil after this devastating flood there would have been few plants to pollinate anyway.

F.B.

I wonder how many mosquitos were on the ark. I mean, they reproduce in water(plenty of that), and their food source was the most readily available. I can imagine the enourmous swarms of mosquitos, blotting out all the light of the ark.

 

[RightWingGirl]

we know for a fact that the number of genetically discreet populations of animals that would necessarily have been represented on the Ark would be in excess of 2,000,000, and possibly as high as 2,750,000.

Could you please give me a source for those figures?

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Could you please give me a source for those figures?

Actually there are 900,000 known insect species and about 300,000 known species of beetles. Of course these are only extant species and the ark should have also been taking the extinct species we see in the fossil record of insects. The problem with insects in not the space they would take as they are small. It is caring for them. Go to a zoo that has an insect house some time as see what is required. How do you care for desert insects like scorpions on a boat in the middle of global rainstorm? How about those species that live in the ground? What about those that require specific plants as hosts. What about those like mayflies that only live in fresh running water? Did Noah have a fresh water stream on board? What about Cicadas that live underground dining on the roots of living trees?

F.B.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

Could you please give me a source for those figures?

These figures are based on numerous analyses of natural populations of animals (including 900,000 named species of insects) known to have existed over the past 9,000 years. I am using the figure of 9,000 years because it is an indisputable fact from dendrochronological studies of Pinus longaeva in the White Mountains of the United States that their habitat has been undisturbed for the past 9,000 years. Indeed, in 1964 a Pinus longaeva was cut down and found through dendrochronological studies to be 4,950 years old. And, of course, dendrochronological studies are only one out of many sources of information about the stability of natural populations over periods of thousands of years before the time of Noah’s Ark.

 

[Mystman]

Actually there are 900,000 known insect species and about 300,000 known species of beetles. Of course these are only extant species and the ark should have also been taking the extinct species we see in the fossil record of insects. The problem with insects in not the space they would take as they are small. It is caring for them. Go to a zoo that has an insect house some time as see what is required. How do you care for desert insects like scorpions on a boat in the middle of global rainstorm? How about those species that live in the ground? What about those that require specific plants as hosts. What about those like mayflies that only live in fresh running water? Did Noah have a fresh water stream on board? What about Cicadas that live underground dining on the roots of living trees?

F.B.

 

[Opethian]

Actually there are 900,000 known insect species and about 300,000 known species of beetles. Of course these are only extant species and the ark should have also been taking the extinct species we see in the fossil record of insects. The problem with insects in not the space they would take as they are small. It is caring for them. Go to a zoo that has an insect house some time as see what is required. How do you care for desert insects like scorpions on a boat in the middle of global rainstorm? How about those species that live in the ground? What about those that require specific plants as hosts. What about those like mayflies that only live in fresh running water? Did Noah have a fresh water stream on board? What about Cicadas that live underground dining on the roots of living trees?

F.B.

Like he says, it is impossible to contain all the animals on this planet in one boat. The idea alone is ridiculous. Each species needs its own habitat, its own environment to survive, with environmental conditions like temperature, humidity, light, vegetation, hell, there's even frigging bacteria that need terrestrial environments, how's Noah gonna take care of them, they need specific acidity levels to sustain them and specific food sources that people back then didn't know about, they wouldn't even know about the frigging bacteria! Also, assuming all those animals would make it alive through that trip, even if they did manage to recreate all the appropriate environmental conditions, is ridiculous.

The whole idea is near moronic!

As are all YECs!!!

Morons!

I cannot stress that enough!

And I don't even feel guilty!

And I feel guilty after accidentally trampling an ant!

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Like he says, it is impossible to contain all the animals on this planet in one boat. The idea alone is ridiculous. Each species needs its own habitat, its own environment to survive, with environmental conditions like temperature, humidity, light, vegetation, hell, there's even frigging bacteria that need terrestrial environments, how's Noah gonna take care of them, they need specific acidity levels to sustain them and specific food sources that people back then didn't know about, they wouldn't even know about the frigging bacteria! Also, assuming all those animals would make it alive through that trip, even if they did manage to recreate all the appropriate environmental conditions, is ridiculous.

The whole idea is near moronic!

As are all YECs!!!

Morons!

I cannot stress that enough!

And I don't even feel guilty!

And I feel guilty after accidentally trampling an ant!

I wouldn't say that all YECs are morons. Some are very ignorant of science and others are seriously afflicted by Morton's Demon. They just can't allow themselves to think logically about all the facts that falsify their myth. The YEC leaders even sign oaths of faith promising not to consider anything that might conflict with their interpretation of Genesis.

F.B.

 

[RightWingGirl]

Like he says, it is impossible to contain all the animals on this planet in one boat. The idea alone is ridiculous. Each species needs its own habitat, its own environment to survive, with environmental conditions like temperature, humidity, light, vegetation, hell, there's even frigging bacteria that need terrestrial environments, how's Noah gonna take care of them, they need specific acidity levels to sustain them and specific food sources that people back then didn't know about, they wouldn't even know about the frigging bacteria! Also, assuming all those animals would make it alive through that trip, even if they did manage to recreate all the appropriate environmental conditions, is ridiculous.

The whole idea is near moronic!

As are all YECs!!!

Morons!

I cannot stress that enough!

And I don't even feel guilty!

And I feel guilty after accidentally trampling an ant!

Actually it seems Noah only took land animals on the ark. In Zoos all around America animals that came from many different environments live in the same place, i.e. New York. Granted various measures are taken to make the animals comfortable in New York, instead of say, Africa, but the idea doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility. The animals were only together in the Ark for approximately a year.


Which land animals or bacteria in specific do you think would cause a problem?

 

[RightWingGirl]

These figures are based on numerous analyses of natural populations of animals (including 900,000 named species of insects) known to have existed over the past 9,000 years. I am using the figure of 9,000 years because it is an indisputable fact from dendrochronological studies of Pinus longaeva in the White Mountains of the United States that their habitat has been undisturbed for the past 9,000 years. Indeed, in 1964 a Pinus longaeva was cut down and found through dendrochronological studies to be 4,950 years old. And, of course, dendrochronological studies are only one out of many sources of information about the stability of natural populations over periods of thousands of years before the time of Noah’s Ark.

Hmmm...Interesting! Could you give me some links?


HAve you read my post on page 1 of caculations of the number of animals needed on the Ark? Any comments, problems, or questions?

 

[TheBear]

Actually it seems Noah only took land animals on the ark.

So all the insects survived in the water for all those months?

 

[TeddyKGB]

Actually it seems Noah only took land animals on the ark. In Zoos all around America animals that came from many different environments live in the same place, i.e. New York. Granted various measures are taken to make the animals comfortable in New York, instead of say, Africa, but the idea doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility. The animals were only together in the Ark for approximately a year.

You speak blithely and nonchalantly about utter nonsense like no one else I have ever encountered.

Part of me is still waiting for you to let us in on the joke.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Actually it seems Noah only took land animals on the ark. In Zoos all around America animals that came from many different environments live in the same place, i.e. New York. Granted various measures are taken to make the animals comfortable in New York, instead of say, Africa, but the idea doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility.

Really. I haven't noticed that the New York Zoo is on a wooden boat during a global rainstorm.

The animals were only together in the Ark for approximately a year.

Which land animals or bacteria in specific do you think would cause a problem?

It is the diversity of animals and their different needs that would cause the problem. What did the insectivores eat and who fed them? Who took care of feeding all the snakes that only eat live prey? Who fed the raptors? Who took care of all the carnivores? What were the crocodiles fed? Who fed the elephants, hippos, rhinos, etc? Have you ever tried caring for large animals without modern conveniences? I have and I can tell you from experience that the idea that 8 people could have cared for thousands of different species of animals and birds on a big wooden for a year is totally and absolutely absurd.

F.B.

 

[TheBear]

Actually it seems Noah only took land animals on the ark.

So all the insects survived in the water for all those months?

RightWingGirl,

I need an answer please.


Thanks.