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prodromos

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the word for brothers and sisters that are used are Adelphos and Adelphe, In Colossians Paul uses Anepsios to Identify Mark as Barnabas cousin. Luke uses sungenis to identify Elizabeth os Mary's relative. So I am pretty sure Paul knew who he was speaking about when He said James the Lords brother because once again in this passage the greek word Adelphos is used.
In the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Old Testament, the sons of Jacob are all called brothers even though they are born to four different mothers (read Gen. 35 and Gen. 37)

John
 
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Uphill Battle

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In the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Old Testament, the sons of Jacob are all called brothers even though they are born to four different mothers (read Gen. 35 and Gen. 37)

John
uh, they are still brothers.
 
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repentant

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the word for brothers and sisters that are used are Adelphos and Adelphe, In Colossians Paul uses Anepsios to Identify Mark as Barnabas cousin. Luke uses sungenis to identify Elizabeth os Mary's relative. So I am pretty sure Paul knew who he was speaking about when He said James the Lords brother because once again in this passage the greek word Adelphos is used.

Do you not realize that James was not Jesus' Brother? What would it take for you to see that? Oh wait, maybe this...

These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John; 3Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; 4Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.
 
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repentant

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In the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Old Testament, the sons of Jacob are all called brothers even though they are born to four different mothers (read Gen. 35 and Gen. 37)

John


Also Abraham and Lot are called brother's, athough they were uncle and nephew...
 
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IamAdopted

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Do you not realize that James was not Jesus' Brother? What would it take for you to see that? Oh wait, maybe this...

These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John; 3Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; 4Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.
Now look and see about the James that wrote the book of James. The Lords brother. James was quite a common name as was Mary. We don't see any books by Simon or by Philip either. So when James is written of as the Lords brother then that is who He is. God breathed these scriptures and God does not lie nor does He go to deceive people. It is when you cannot except the evidable that deceit will follow. You can say that Joseph was not Marys husband when he was and that Jesus didn't have brothers when He did and even sisters the bible tells us. Why would you say this? Because of some theory that was made up by man to say that Mary was a PV so therefore the bible can't mean what it says because it does not add up to the fact that Jesus had brothers and sisters and that Mary was a married woman. IT takes away this belief system that Mary was somehow more than what the bible says she was.
 
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prodromos

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Jesus is the son of Mary. James, Joses, Judas and Simon are the sons of Joseph. Mary and Joseph are betrothed. This makes Jesus the brother of James, Joses, Judas and Simon. There is no distinction made between step brothers and brothers of the flesh in the Greek or Hebrew languages. Jesus was legally the son of Joseph which automatically makes him brother to Josephs' sons and daughters. There is no deception.

John
 
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IamAdopted

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Jesus is the son of Mary. James, Joses, Judas and Simon are the sons of Joseph. Mary and Joseph are betrothed. This makes Jesus the brother of James, Joses, Judas and Simon. There is no distinction made between step brothers and brothers of the flesh in the Greek or Hebrew languages. Jesus was legally the son of Joseph which automatically makes him brother to Josephs' sons and daughters. There is no deception.

John
Now where do you see it is written that Joseph had children before Mary? Scripture does not say this. This is an add on to keep the belief of the theory of Mary. Joseph and Mary had other children. The bible shows us this. First born son means just that.. First born others came after. Only begotten means just that. God had only one Son. Begotton by Him. If they used this speech to declare that Jesus was Gods only begotten they would have used the same speech if this was true about Mary. But they used first born instead.
 
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repentant

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Now look and see about the James that wrote the book of James. The Lords brother. James was quite a common name as was Mary. We don't see any books by Simon or by Philip either. So when James is written of as the Lords brother then that is who He is. God breathed these scriptures and God does not lie nor does He go to deceive people. It is when you cannot except the evidable that deceit will follow. You can say that Joseph was not Marys husband when he was and that Jesus didn't have brothers when He did and even sisters the bible tells us. Why would you say this? Because of some theory that was made up by man to say that Mary was a PV so therefore the bible can't mean what it says because it does not add up to the fact that Jesus had brothers and sisters and that Mary was a married woman. IT takes away this belief system that Mary was somehow more than what the bible says she was.

You are very humerous. Do you not see there are ONLY TWO Apostles named James? One is the son of Zebedee, and the other son of Clopus (Alphaeus). So the Apostle James, call the Lord's brother, is NOT His blood brother. Unless there is some mysterious Apostle names James that is not mentioned in any Gospel in the list of Apostles...:doh:

And the fact is not that Jesus is a liar, the fact is you have no clue about the Greek or Jewish culture. Let me ask you, was God lying when Lot is reffered to as Abrahams brother, allthough they were nephew and uncle?

Please answer the questions, I don't want to hear your ranting...
 
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repentant

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Now where do you see it is written that Joseph had children before Mary? Scripture does not say this. This is an add on to keep the belief of the theory of Mary. Joseph and Mary had other children. The bible shows us this. First born son means just that.. First born others came after. Only begotten means just that. God had only one Son. Begotton by Him. If they used this speech to declare that Jesus was Gods only begotten they would have used the same speech if this was true about Mary. But they used first born instead.


Once you get off the "sola scriptura" train, you will see there is other historical sources....Scripture never says that all is in there..
 
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Uphill Battle

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GorrionGris

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GorrionGris

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Once you get off the "sola scriptura" train, you will see there is other historical sources....Scripture never says that all is in there..
This is the central issue many protestants fail to see. A Catholic or Orthodox cannot surrender to the idea of Sola Scriptura. If he does, he automatically becames a protestant...

...so we have these so many threads that go nowhere...
 
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IamAdopted

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You are very humerous. Do you not see there are ONLY TWO Apostles named James? One is the son of Zebedee, and the other son of Clopus (Alphaeus). So the Apostle James, call the Lord's brother, is NOT His blood brother. Unless there is some mysterious Apostle names James that is not mentioned in any Gospel in the list of Apostles...:doh:

And the fact is not that Jesus is a liar, the fact is you have no clue about the Greek or Jewish culture. Let me ask you, was God lying when Lot is reffered to as Abrahams brother, allthough they were nephew and uncle?

Please answer the questions, I don't want to hear your ranting...
what does this have to do with what is written of Jesus and mary? Please. Jesus was also stated to be Mary's firstborn. Not only begotten.
 
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prodromos

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Now where do you see it is written that Joseph had children before Mary? Scripture does not say this.
If Jesus was the firstborn of other siblings then He would be the eldest, plus after Joseph had died He would be the authority in the family. Scripture records a few occasions where His siblings treat him not as the eldest, but as a younger brother. This is completely in line with Orthodox Tradition but does not fit well with your own interpretation.
This is an add on to keep the belief of the theory of Mary.
No, it is details remembered by the Church, a Church which Mary was intimately involved with for most of her life.
Joseph and Mary had other children. The bible shows us this. First born son means just that.. First born others came after. Only begotten means just that. God had only one Son. Begotton by Him. If they used this speech to declare that Jesus was Gods only begotten they would have used the same speech if this was true about Mary. But they used first born instead.
Firstborn is a title which has to do with inheritance, not to imply that there would be others to come after. An only child is also a firstborn child in this context.

It is also noteworthy that the oldest Greek manuscripts do not have "firstborn" but simply "son".

John
 
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IamAdopted

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If Jesus was the firstborn of other siblings then He would be the eldest, plus after Joseph had died He would be the authority in the family. Scripture records a few occasions where His siblings treat him not as the eldest, but as a younger brother. This is completely in line with Orthodox Tradition but does not fit well with your own interpretation.
No, it is details remembered by the Church, a Church which Mary was intimately involved with for most of her life.
Firstborn is a title which has to do with inheritance, not to imply that there would be others to come after. An only child is also a firstborn child in this context.

It is also noteworthy that the oldest Greek manuscripts do not have "firstborn" but simply "son".

John
Mary was just a part of the church. Just as Paul and Peter and James and John and Phillip. These things you speak of would have been written in Gods word if they were inspired by God. He has given us His inspired written word to direct us into truth. The scriptures tell us that Jesus had brothers and sisters. The Apostles call them the brothers of Jesus. We don't have a recording of when Joseph died. So therefore this must not have been important. The bible does show us that Mary had other children. The bible also gives a prophetic account of Jesus in Psalms. Even quoted in the NT. Making Mary to be anything other than what scripture gives her is where I have the problem for God has not revealed this to us in His inspired written word. So I question then where this came from? It had to come from Man.
 
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prodromos

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These things you speak of would have been written in Gods word if they were inspired by God.
You have stated this opinion of yours again and again but in the end it is merely your opinion.
[bible]John 21:25[/bible]Did Jesus do or say anything that was not inspired? By your reckoning since there are great volumes that have not been recorded in the bible, they can't have been inspired despite the fact that they came directly from His lips.

John
 
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repentant

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what does this have to do with what is written of Jesus and mary? Please. Jesus was also stated to be Mary's firstborn. Not only begotten.

It has to do with alot. You claim that because we say "brother" does not mean Jesus had blood brother's, or Mary had other children, you are saying we are saying God is a liar. SO I asked if Abraham and Lot being reffered to as "brother", although they were not, then are YOU saying God is a liar..?

And I already posted about "firstborn", but obviously you ignored that as well..the Greek does not say "firstborn", but uion, whch only means Son...
 
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