• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

old testament and new testament go together like cake and ice cream

Status
Not open for further replies.

Jaci Fan

Revelations 20:10
Nov 25, 2003
885
9
49
CA
Visit site
✟1,080.00
Faith
Christian
Jesus is God!
There are Jews today still torn between if Jesus is really God or not

If you are sincerely interested in why some christians like myself believe why we do, read the following please.

John 19:7
The Jews insisted, "We have a law, and according to that law he must die, because he claimed to be the Son of God."

Jesus himself is claiming he was before abraham
my words in CAPS
-------------------------------
JOHN 8:48-59
48The Jews answered him, "Aren't we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?"
49"I am not possessed by a demon," said Jesus, "but I honor my Father and you dishonor me.50
I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. 51I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death."
52At this the Jews exclaimed, "Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that if anyone keeps your word, he will never taste death. 53Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?" (HERE THE JEWS ARE OUTRAGED BECAUSE JESUS IS TELLING THEM THAT IF THEY KEEP HIS WORDS THEY WILL NEVER SEE DEATH- THE JEWS ASK HIM, ARE YOU GREATER THAN OUR FATHER ABRAHAM? HE IS ALREADY DIED AND SO DID THE PROPHETS- WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE!?)
54Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word. 56Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad."(JESUS SAID YOUR FATHER ABRAHAM REJOICED AT THE THOUGHT OF SEEING MY DAY; HE SAW IT AND WAS GLAD- WELL IF ABRAHAM REJOICED AT JUST THE THOUGHT OF SEEING JESUS DAY WHY DID JESUS SAY, HE SAW IT AND WAS GLAD? - ABRAHAM SAW IT IN THE FACT HE UNDERSTOOD THAT JESUS WAS COMING INTO THE WORLD AND HAD ALREADY LIVED IN HIS HEART)
57"You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"
58"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" (THIS IS JUST ONE OF THE MANY REFERENCES WHERE JESUS CLAIMS TO HAVE BEEN ALIVE OR EXSISTED BEFORE NOT ONLY ABRAHAM BUT BEFORE EVERYTHING) 59At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.
---------------------------------
John 14:3-14
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4You know the way to the place where I am going."

5Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"
6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."
8Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."
9Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. 12I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. 14You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.(THESE SCRIPTURE ARE PRETTY SELF EXPLANITORY-JESUS IS SAYING WHEN YOU HAVE SEEN ME, YOU HAVE SEEN THE FATHER- FOR THE FATHER IS IN ME AND I IN THE FATHER)

John 17:5
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

TAKING A TRIP BACK TO GENESIS

Genesis 1:26
Then God said, "Let US make man in OUR image, in OUR likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

Genesis 3:22
And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of US, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." (this makes total sense when we hear jesus say things like now Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began)

--------------------------------
TAKE A LOOK AT SOME PROPHECY ALREADY FULFILLED ABOUT THE COMING OF CHRIST- OLD/NEW TESTAMENTS GO TOGETHER LIKE CAKE AND ICE CREAM - HERE IS JUST A FEW SAMPLES

HE WAS TO BE OF KING DAVIDS FAMILY:
OT: Isaiah 9:6-7 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom,
establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the LORD Almighty will accomplish this.

NT: Mark 12:36 David himself, speaking by the Holy Spirit, declared: " 'The Lord said to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet." '

OT: Psalm 89:3-4 You said, "I have made a covenant with my chosen one,
I have sworn to David my servant, 4 'I will establish your line forever and make your throne firm through all generations.' "

NT:
John 7:42 Still others asked, "How can the Christ come from Galilee? Does not the Scripture say that the Christ will come from David's family and from Bethlehem, the town where David lived?"
-------------------------------
HE WOULD BE BORN OF A VIRGIN:
OT: Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

NT:Matthew 1:23 "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" -which means, "God with us."
--------------------------------
HE WOULD BE BORN IN BETHLEHEM:
OT: Micah 5:2 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel,
whose origins are from of old, from ancient times. "

NT: John 7:42 Still others asked, "How can the Christ come from Galilee? Does not the Scripture say that the Christ will come from David's family and from Bethlehem, the town where David lived?"
----------------------------------
HE WOULD MAKE A TRIUMPHANT ENTRY INTO JERUSALEM:
OT: Zechariah 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O Daughter of Zion! Shout, Daughter of Jerusalem! See, your king comes to you, righteous and having salvation,
gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.

NT:
Matthew 21:5 "Say to the Daughter of Zion, 'See, your king comes to you,
gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.' "
-----------------------------------
HE WOULD DIE WITH CRIMINALS:
OT: Isaiah 53:9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand. 11 After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light of life and be satisfied ; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.

NT: Luke 22:37 It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors' ; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."
---------------------------------
THEY WOULD CAST LOTS FOR HIS GARMENTS:
OT: Psalm 22:18 They divide my garments among them
and cast lots for my clothing.

NT: Matthew 27:35 When they had crucified him, they divided up his clothes by casting lots.
-----------------------------------
HIS DYING WORDS WERE FORETOLD:
OT: Psalm 22:1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me, so far from the words of my groaning?

NT:Matthew 27:46 About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"--which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
------------------------------
HE WOULD RISE FROM THE DEAD THE THIRD DAY:
OT:pSALM 16:10 because you will not abandon me to the grave,
nor will you let your Holy One see decay.
JESUS AFFIRMED THE RESURRECTION BY REFERRING TO PAST SCRIPTURES
NT:Luke 24:46 He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,
PETER CONFIRMED IT BY QUOTING DAVID'S PROPHECY
NT:Acts 2:25 David said about him: " 'I saw the Lord always before me.
Because he is at my right hand, I will not be shaken. 26Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices; my body also will live in hope, 27because you will not abandon me to the grave, nor will you let your Holy One see decay. 28You have made known to me the paths of life; you will fill me with joy in your presence.' 29"Brothers, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day. 30But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne. 31Seeing what was ahead, he spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to the grave, nor did his body see decay. 32God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of the fact.
THOUGH ISAIAH PROPHESIED 800 YEARS BEFORE JESUS' COMING, HE WROTE OF CHRIST'S SUFFERINGS FOR US
OT: Isaiah 53:6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
-------------------------

I REALY COULD GO ON AND ON BUT ITS CLEAR THROUGHOUT THE SCRIPTURES JUST WHO JESUS IS!

THE PREDOMINANT THEME OF THE SCRIPTURES IS THE PERSON AND WORK OF JESUS CHRIST, HE IS GOD. HE BECAME A HUMAN BEING, DIED BY CRUCIFIXION, AND WAS BURIED. HE ROSE AGAIN FROM THE DEAD. HE IS THE ONLY ALL-SUFFICIENT SAVIOR OF THE WORLD. HE WILL COME AGAIN TO THIS EARTH. REMOVING THIS FROM THE SCRIPTURES ROBS THEM FROM ALL COHERENT MEANING AND CONTINUITY.

DEITY IS THE ONLY EXPLANATION FOR ALL THAT HE WAS AND ALL THAT HE DID

in Christ, Scott
 

jbarcher

ANE Social Science Researcher
Aug 25, 2003
6,994
385
Toronto, Ontario
✟10,136.00
Faith
Christian
To quote Os Guiness, "The Jews and Christians agree with each other, point after point."

Hm...maybe I'm missing a few words. But I would assume that he is talking about real Judaism--preperation for the Child that was born from a virgin...

And yes, the Bible is one on every subject.
 
Upvote 0
You have to be crazy to think that the Old Testament and New Testament go together like "cake and ice cream". For one thing it is a little arrogant and naive to assume that they do--do you not think that Jews have good reasons for not believing the claims of Christianity. Where does Judaism have a God-man (the Jews called Moses and the Judges God becasue they were supposed to have the authority of God, but it is heretical to believe a person can be God himself. The Greeks are the inventors of God-men)? Where is the Trinity in the Bible--if it exists, why do the Jews reject it, and where is the "Devil" (Jews believe satan IS an angel of God who does his will, they dont think that he roams around trying to bring people to hell with him as he rebels from God).
Many of the "prophesies" of Jesus were most likely made up. For instance; the reference to a "virgin" is due to a Hebrew to Greek translation of the Bible in which young woman or virgin was translated into virgin--so if the gospels record virgin they were inventing the story to agree with a mistranslation! (the focus on the geneology of Joseph only reinforces this point). How would the writers have known that they cast lots for Jesus's clothing? How would they have know that Jesus did'nt say a thing during the trial? This would make it even more difficult if you consider the fact that the Gospels were written a couple of generations after Jesus's death and the authors did'nt even know Jesus. Also, most of these prophesies are extremely vague.

Genesis 1:26 is regarded by most scholars (even the most conservative) as not affirming the trinity-- it is speaking of a heavenly court.

I would challenge you to find references to Jesus's divinity outside of John (which is probably the last gospel to have been written).

I would also challenge you to see things from the Jewish point of view. They are not naive in not accepting Jesus and to think that they are only serves to point out your own lack of understanding. Historically this view has caused untold sufferings and it is about time that Christians see beyond the constraints of religion and start to embrace others out of brotherhood and collective humanity.

Remember that the Samaritan was a heritic, yet was justified by Jesus for helping his neighbor. First century Jews hated this story and i am sure many Chrisitans today hate it as well.
 
Upvote 0

reformedfan

Senior Veteran
Dec 18, 2003
4,358
168
http://lightintheblack.co.uk/forum/portal.php
Visit site
✟20,404.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Where did the idea of a God/Man come from? From God! He said so in Gen 3:15. Eve named Cain, "I got him!" indicating she believed One would be born who was God.
Gen 22, everyone knew God would one day provide a sacrifice
Gen 49:10 Judah would produce an eternal King, etc,
(thousands of promises of Christ in the pages of the OT, impossible to deny, yet impossible to understand apart from God's grace. I'll pray for ya, being_there.)
and there's Good ol' Zech, my homey. (LOVE Zech. 3, but I digress...) What's Zech 2:10 promising? This wasn't some new revelation, it was further confirmation of the Gen 3:15.
the OT & NT go together like cake & Ice cream, yup!
You know, I knew a Jewish girl once that read Psalm 22 and for the first time saw Christ in that Messianic Psalm. Lotsa great Messianic Psalms in the OT. Lemme know if ya want more.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.