Old Earth Creationism

genez said:

First four days omnipresent God provided the light.

It says that the sun did not bear light until the fourth day. Gen 1:14-19

So, its possible for the first three days that the light engulfed entire globe for what is called "day."

Click to expand...

So now we have God turned the light that surrounded the globe on & off for three days? Perhaps we could speculate that He created trillions of purple & yellow polkadot unicorns with spotlights attached to their horns that pranced about on rainbows as they swarmed the planet shining light on the plants so that they could survive until He created the sun? There’s certainly an equal amount of scriptural evidence to support that theory as the one your proposing.

BNR32FAN said:

What aspects of the universe would represent the presence of a navel? A navel would have to represent something that wasn’t necessary for the creation process as Adam wouldn’t have needed an navel because he was not born of a woman and therefore was never connected by an umbilical cord. So what do we see in the universe that would represent something that wasn’t necessary for the universe to be created or come into existence?

Click to expand...

A naval would be evidence of being born of a woman. Adam wasn't born he was created. In the same way you find evidence that the earth and the universe are very old but they may have been created in 6 days

BPPLEE said:

A naval would be evidence of being born of a woman. Adam wasn't born he was created. In the same way you find evidence that the earth and the universe are very old but they may have been created in 6 days

Click to expand...

The navel illustration doesn’t exactly fit the situation tho. Adam having a navel would indicate that he was born of a woman having been connected by an umbilical cord so if he did have one then that would mean that God created him with one to serve no other purpose but to deceive others into thinking that he was born, not created. The problem with that illustration is, the universe doesn’t have anything like that. There’s nothing that the universe possesses that is giving a false message that God did not create it. So anyone using that example is making a very weak argument because it doesn’t fit the creation scenario. Adam having a navel, which there is nothing anywhere suggesting that he or Eve did have one, doesn’t illustrate an old earth. Adam being created as an adult illustrates a young earth. So I don’t see how anyone could successfully use the navel argument to refute a young earth.

BNR32FAN said:

So now we have God turned the light that surrounded the globe on & off for three days? Perhaps we could speculate that He created trillions of purple & yellow polkadot unicorns with spotlights attached to their horns that pranced about on rainbows as they swarmed the planet shining light on the plants so that they could survive until He created the sun? There’s certainly an equal amount of scriptural evidence to support that theory as the one your proposing.

Click to expand...

May I introduce you to your God?


The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it,
for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp." Rev 21:23

BNR32FAN said:

The navel illustration doesn’t exactly fit the situation tho. Adam having a navel would indicate that he was born of a woman having been connected by an umbilical cord so if he did have one then that would mean that God created him with one to serve no other purpose but to deceive others into thinking that he was born, not created. The problem with that illustration is, the universe doesn’t have anything like that. There’s nothing that the universe possesses that is giving a false message that God did not create it. So anyone using that example is making a very weak argument because it doesn’t fit the creation scenario. Adam having a navel, which there is nothing anywhere suggesting that he or Eve did have one, doesn’t illustrate an old earth. Adam being created as an adult illustrates a young earth. So I don’t see how anyone could successfully use the navel argument to refute a young earth.

Click to expand...

That's what it's called. The idea is he was a full grown man and would've looked like anyone else. It's not my theory it goes along with what you've been saying. I can see how you could say the navel would lead some to say it was deceptive

genez said:

May I introduce you to your God?


The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it,
for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp." Rev 21:23

Click to expand...

What does this have to do with Genesis? Your quoting a verse about the New Earth not this one. The city is New Jerusalem, that’s the city that doesn’t need a sun. Obviously the Jerusalem we have now does need a sun which is why we have one, so the verse your quoting has absolutely nothing to do with this earth.

BPPLEE said:

That's what it's called. The idea is he was a full grown man and would've looked like anyone else. It's not my theory it goes along with what you've been saying. I can see how you could say the navel would lead some to say it was deceptive

Click to expand...

If the Bible said he had one they might have a point, but it doesn’t.

BNR32FAN said:

If the Bible said he had one they might have a point, but it doesn’t.

Click to expand...

It doesn't say a lot of things and even the argument you are using (and I have used) doesn't address the fossil record so there are no easy answers

BNR32FAN said:

What does this have to do with Genesis?

Click to expand...

Shows that God can provide light of day without the sun. Light that gives life, like the sun does.

For the first four days in Genesis there was no sun to give the light of day. But, there was "Day."
...........

BPPLEE said:

It doesn't say a lot of things and even the argument you are using (and I have used) doesn't address the fossil record so there are no easy answers

Click to expand...

The fossil record is evidence of a prior created world that was destroyed by God as evidenced in the Hebrew of Genesis 1:2. The Hebrew hardly means empty and void. It speaks of an utter destruction of all life on the prehistoric world. So much so, that Jeremiah quoted Genesis 1:2 to the rebellious Jews as an ominous warning about what kind of judgement they were about to face from the justice of God!

Jeremiah 4:23 uses the same Hebrew found in Genesis 1:2. It speaks of the after effects of God's judgmnent


I looked at the earth,
and it was without shape or form;
at the heavens
and there was no light.

Then Jeremiah continues to describe what the Hebrew meant..



The Jews spoke Hebrew and knew of the severity of what took place in Gen 1:2. Yet, Jeremiah had to modify it a bit as to let the Jews know that they would not be utterly destroyed and wiped out. For that is what Genesis 1:2 WAS SPEAKING ABOUT.

Jeremiah modified the original meaning with adding Jer 4:27. For the Jews needed to know that they would not become like what was found in Genesis 1:2.


Genesis 1:2 (in the Hebrew) speaks of a complete destruction of the prehistoric world.

genez said:

Shows that God can provide light of day without the sun. Light that gives life, like the sun does.

For the first four days in Genesis there was no sun to give the light of day. But, there was "Day."

The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it,
for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp." Rev 21:23

​

...........

Click to expand...

Ok I see what your saying now and I’d like to apologize for my misunderstanding. I think your giving a very viable possibility, I just disagree with it. I do however acknowledge that what your proposing could be supported by the scriptures or at least there is some evidence to support your theory.

BNR32FAN said:

Ok I see what your saying now and I’d like to apologize for my misunderstanding. I think your giving a very viable possibility, I just disagree with it. I do however acknowledge that what your proposing could be supported by the scriptures or at least there is some evidence to support your theory.

Click to expand...

Why do you disagree? Because it shoots down what you have been taking comfort and pride in believing?

We must get beyond that if we are ever to fully mature in Christ. Myself included.

BNR32FAN said:

But the plants were created on the third day. How could they survive with no sunlight for extremely long periods of time?

Click to expand...

The plants were germinating under the soil.

In Gen 2:5 they were first to begin sprouting.

When it says, 'God saw?' Keep in mind. God in his omniscience sees what is to be, as already being!


In Genesis One:11-12, God saw the fully grown plants in his omniscience what was about to become manifested in reality!


When it says God saw? Keep in mind. God in his omniscience sees what is to be, as already being!

BNR32FAN said:

The navel illustration doesn’t exactly fit the situation tho. Adam having a navel would indicate that he was born of a woman having been connected by an umbilical cord so if he did have one then that would mean that God created him with one to serve no other purpose but to deceive others into thinking that he was born, not created. The problem with that illustration is, the universe doesn’t have anything like that. There’s nothing that the universe possesses that is giving a false message that God did not create it. So anyone using that example is making a very weak argument because it doesn’t fit the creation scenario. Adam having a navel, which there is nothing anywhere suggesting that he or Eve did have one, doesn’t illustrate an old earth. Adam being created as an adult illustrates a young earth. So I don’t see how anyone could successfully use the navel argument to refute a young earth.

Click to expand...

There have been more than one world created upon this earth. Ours is the latest, and youngest one.

Keep in mind. Our present earth in the future will become another old earth world. Ours will have become prehistoric!



Our world is the "youngest creation." But, the earth is not as young as the created world we live in. Older worlds have been buried beneath it, and no one thinks about them now.. unless we find fossils.

In the future our world will have become the same when God is ready to advance his classroom to reveal Himself in.

genez said:

Why do you disagree? Because it shoots down what you have been taking comfort and pride in believing?

We must get beyond that if we are ever to fully mature in Christ. Myself included.

Click to expand...

I disagree with it because when God says he created the universe in 6 days I believe exactly that, I don’t care what scientists say or what how old they think the universe is. Scientists say a donkey can’t talk, they say a man can’t be brought back to life after being dead for 3 days, or you can’t feed 5,000 people with 2 fish and 5 loaves of bread. Genesis 1:26 says man and woman were made on the 6th day. Genesis 2 says God made man and woman. Exodus 20:11 says God created the heavens and the earth and everything in them which would include man in 6 days. So according to the scriptures Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 both took place in the same 6 days. Your theory contradicts the scriptures by saying that man was not made on the 6th day, that’s why I disagree with it. So your theory doesn’t actually shoot down anything it’s actually shot down by the scriptures. I agree that God could’ve provided light for the plants but I’m more inclined to believe that they didn’t need it for the first 24 hours because they hadn’t sprouted yet.

genez said:

The plants were germinating under the soil.

In Gen 2:5 they were first to begin sprouting.

Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth and no plant had yet
sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there
was no one to work the ground." Genesis 2:5​

When it says, 'God saw?' Keep in mind. God in his omniscience sees what is to be, as already being!

Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants
and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their
various kinds.” And it was so. The land produced vegetation: plants
bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed
in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good... Gen 1:11-12​

In Genesis One:11-12, God saw the fully grown plants in his omniscience what was about to become manifested in reality!


When it says God saw? Keep in mind. God in his omniscience sees what is to be, as already being!

Click to expand...

Your ignoring the fact that it also says that God said let there be plants and it was so. He brought forth vegetation and saw that it was good. It doesn’t say that He foresaw that it would be good, it says He brought them forth (past tense) not He will bring them forth. It doesn’t say that it will be so it says and it was so (past tense). He saw that the plants were good because He had already created them. Genesis 2 is a reiteration of Genesis 1.

genez said:

There have been more than one world created upon this earth. Ours is the latest, and youngest one.

Keep in mind. Our present earth in the future will become another old earth world. Ours will have become prehistoric!

“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind." Isa 65:17​

Our world is the "youngest creation." But, the earth is not as young as the created world we live in. Older worlds have been buried beneath it, and no one thinks about them now.. unless we find fossils.

In the future our world will have become the same when God is ready to advance his classroom to reveal Himself in.

“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind." Isa 65:17​

Click to expand...

Isiah is a prophecy this could refer to the New Heavens and New Earth that will be created after judgement day or it could refer to a new universe and planets or it could refer to new skies and new land here on earth. The verse is inconclusive, it can mean a lot of things.

BNR32FAN said:

I disagree with it because when God says he created the universe in 6 days I believe exactly that, I don’t care what scientists say or what how old they think the universe is..

Click to expand...

Not "created" in six days! For He created the heavens and earth BEFORE we see day one! OUTSIDE of time as we know it!

Look what it says!

Bara means to create something out from nothing! Only God can do that!

When did He create the heavens and earth?

It does not say in six days. It was created before there were any days as we know it!

Notice the change in the meaning of words. To the Hebrew mind it was revealing to a specific function by God.



This time it says God made (not created) this earth to be what it is to be in six days.

Asah (made) means to make something out from what is already created! What was already created? In the beginning God created the original heavens and earth! Then, at some unspecified point in time, in six days God made out of what was created to become what we have today.


He created the Heavens and Earth BEFORE we had days and nights as we know it!

BNR32FAN said:

Your ignoring the fact that it also says that God said let there be plants and it was so. He brought forth vegetation and saw that it was good. It doesn’t say that He foresaw that it would be good, it says He brought them forth (past tense) not He will bring them forth. It doesn’t say that it will be so it says and it was so (past tense). He saw that the plants were good because He had already created them. Genesis 2 is a reiteration of Genesis 1.

Click to expand...

God now sees you seated with Christ in Heaven.

You have yet to better understand the nature of God. You keep making Him out to be limited like yourself. He is not limited by time. He sees the future as it its the present. And, that when God says something is so, its so.

When God told Moses that he was to go back to Egypt to free his people? In the Hebrew God told Moses that Moses had already had done it!

We need to know how God thinks.

genez said:

Not "created" in six days! For He created the heavens and earth BEFORE we see day one! OUTSIDE of time as we know it!

Look what it says!

In the beginning God created (bara) the heavens and the earth."
​

Bara means to create something out from nothing! Only God can do that!

When did He create the heavens and earth?

It does not say in six days. It was created before there were any days as we know it!

Notice the change in the meaning of words. To the Hebrew mind it was revealing to a specific function by God.

For in six days the Lord made (not created) the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it." Ex 20:11​

This time it says God made (not created) this earth to be what it is to be in six days.

Asah (made) means to make something out from what is already created! What was already created? In the beginning God created the original heavens and earth! Then, at some unspecified point in time, in six days God made out of what was created to become what we have today.

He created the Heavens and Earth BEFORE we had days and nights as we know it!

Click to expand...

The word MADE is used several times in Genesis 1 it means the same thing! The sun and moon were MADE on the fourth day.

“God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:16‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Man, woman, and all land animals were MADE on the sixth day!

“Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind”; and it was so. God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good. Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food”; and it was so. God saw all that He had MADE, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:24-31‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

On the sixth day God said to them “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed” How could He have given these to them (past tense) if they didn’t exist yet? How could they “go forth and multiply” if they didn’t exist yet? Verse 31 says He saw all that He HAD MADE, not all that He will make. Sorry but your wrong because the words made and make are both in Genesis 1 so your argument doesn’t make any sense. Furthermore Genesis 1:1 occurs on the first day, that’s why Exodus 20:11 says that God made the heavens and the earth and everything in them in 6 days!

“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1-5‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

All of this took place on the first day of creation and Genesis 1 and 2 all took place during the same 6 days.