Old Covenant vs. New Covenant Leadership in the Church

Bob S

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BABerean2 said:
You have failed to "cast out" the Sinai covenant of "bondage" in Galatians 4:24-31.


Which covenant of bondage are you referring to? The covenant of the rainbow? Abraham's covenant? The OT has lots of covenants. Get my point? Paul was referring to a specific covenant, not the entire Bible(which was the OT then).
Why do you ask which one when BABerean2 plainly stated it is the Sinai covenant, The one God made with Israel at Mt Sinai.

He was telling people we are not saved by works. He didn't say "Burn the Bible. All of it. Except these new Books we just wrote. That's all you need."
Who, in your group, has been given the authority to cast out only parts of the bondwoman covenant?

Romans 3: 1Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision? 2Much in every way.

31Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.

Was Paul talking about being in bondage to sin? Or being in bondage to those evil unjust laws that that mean old "old testament" god forced on those poor little jews?
Jer 31:31 “The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them,”
declares the Lord.

Maybe you can understand the following paraphrase.
Cast out the covenant and its laws you were not able to keep. You don't need that covenant and its laws anymore because I am giving you Jesus and His eternal covenant of Love by which to live your lives. The covenant I gave you at Sinai was to teach you how to live in Canaan. The eternal covenant through My Son is to give you eternal life with Me.
 
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guevaraj

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All man-made Bible doctrines are revealed not by the scripture quoted by its proponents, but rather by the scripture they must ignore to make it work. You have just revealed the truth of the statement above. You are ignoring Galatians 3:16-29, and Galatians 4:24-31, and Hebrews 8:13, and Hebrews 12:18-24. Those passages reveal the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant.
Brother, humans have assumed that Jesus' new law supersedes the old ten commandments, when Jesus added to what He gave us before with His own finger and took nothing away, as He tells us below. He expects are glory "surpasses" that of the Pharisees ten commandments, fulfilling more than the ten commandments and no less than the ten commandments.

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:17-20 NIV)​

"Surpasses" means more and nothing less than the ten commandments. What did Paul say he accomplished as a Pharisee?

as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless. (Philippians 3:6 NIV)​

The only way to achieve a "surpassing glory" than the old "glory" of the ten commandments written in stone by Jesus before the incarnation is to obey more laws and no fewer laws than Paul had in the old covenant. The new commandment of Jesus adds to the old commandments and does not replace the old commandments. It is humans who want to do less, when Jesus expects more from us.

Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts! (2 Corinthians 3:7-11 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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BABerean2

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Brother, humans have assumed that Jesus' new law supersedes the old ten commandments, when Jesus added to what He gave us before with His own finger and took nothing away, as He tells us below. He expects are glory "surpasses" that of the Pharisees ten commandments, fulfilling more than the ten commandments and no less than the ten commandments.

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:17-20 NIV)​

"Surpasses" means more and nothing less than the ten commandments. What did Paul say he accomplished as a Pharisee?

as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless. (Philippians 3:6 NIV)​

The only way to achieve a "surpassing glory" than the old "glory" of the ten commandments written in stone by Jesus before the incarnation is to obey more laws and no fewer laws than Paul had in the old covenant. The new commandment of Jesus adds to the old commandments and does not replace the old commandments. It is humans who want to do less, when Jesus expects more from us.

Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts! (2 Corinthians 3:7-11 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge


There is much truth in what you have written above, which you cannot see because of your SDA doctrine.


Was Paul faultless before God after he had persecuted the early members of the Church, or was he faultless before the law of Moses? Do you understand the difference?


What does the term "was glorious" mean in reference to the ten commandments in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8? Do you understand what it means if something is "past" tense?

As we have seen before, you can find the Sabbath day in Hebrews chapter 4, but you cannot find the word "Gospel" in the same chapter.

We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18, but we are come instead to the New Covenant of Mount Zion in Hebrews 12:22-24.


Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

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guevaraj

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As we have seen before, you can find the Sabbath day in Hebrews chapter 4, but you cannot find the word "Gospel" in the same chapter.
Brother, I can see the news from God of the opportunity to enter God's Sabbath "rest" today, during the new covenant, so that we are not like those who perished for 40 years in the desert and did not enter the "rest" of God's Sabbath because of an oath due to their disobedience. Here are my notes on each verse in Hebrews 3 and 4 for your review.

Hebrews 3
  1. Therefore, holy brothers and sisters, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, whom we acknowledge as our apostle and high priest. We are in the new covenant.
  2. He was faithful to the one who appointed him, just as Moses was faithful in all God’s house. Jesus like Moses was faithful to build God’s house.
  3. Jesus has been found worthy of greater honor than Moses, just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself. Jesus is greater than Moses.
  4. For every house is built by someone, but God is the builder of everything. God sent them both to build His house.
  5. “Moses was faithful as a servant in all God’s house,” a bearing witness to what would be spoken by God in the future. Moses set the foundation for Jesus to build further God’s house.
  6. But Christ is faithful as the Son over God’s house. And we are his house, if indeed we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope in which we glory. Jesus continues to build God’s house, started by Moses.
  7. So, as the Holy Spirit says: “Today, if you hear his voice, The Holy Spirit calls God’s house today, in the new covenant, to enter His “rest”.
  8. do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion, during the time of testing in the wilderness, The Holy Spirit calls God’s house in the new convent not to harden our hearts as those that died in the wilderness for 40 years before entering the Promised Land.
  9. Where your ancestors tested and tried me, though for forty years they saw what I did. They were punished for 40 years. We are not to test God as they did with their disobedience.
  10. That is why I was angry with that generation; I said, ‘Their hearts are always going astray, and they have not known my ways.’ They spent God’s patience with their disobedience.
  11. So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’ ” God did not allow them to enter His “rest” for 40 years by an oath.
  12. See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. We are to not be like them, disobedient to the point of spending God’s patience with our disobedience.
  13. But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. We need to encourage each other daily as long as there is time to grow and not be like them, disobedient in God’s house to His word.
  14. We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end. We are of Christ if we obey God in all that He has revealed in His word.
  15. As has just been said: “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion.” We are to grow in obedience and not share in the disobedience of the past.
  16. Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? The ones who rebelled are those lead out of Egypt by Moses. Jesus’ expects greater obedience to Him than Moses got.
  17. And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies perished in the wilderness? The oath of not entering God’s “rest” was with those who perished in the wilderness for 40 years before entering the Promised Land.
  18. And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? The punishment of not entering God’s “rest” was for disobedience.
  19. So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief. They did not enter because of their unbelief in what is revealed in the word of God. They were told of the evening to evening Sabbaths by Moses, but were not allowed to enter into God’s evening to evening “rest” with the morning to morning Sabbath of the manna that was not the correct Sabbath near the Promised Land. For 40 years they kept the Sabbath that was correct in Eden, but not correct near the Promised Land as they would later keep from evening to evening when they entered the Promised Land.
Hebrews 4
  1. Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. No person has entered God's Sabbath "rest"; even up to the time that Paul wrote the book of Hebrews. "Every effort to enter that rest" mentioned later is still future to correct the Sabbath tradition of Judaism. Paul did not understand what He was writing by inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
  2. For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed. This is what God is looking for to save us that we "share the faith of those who obeyed". Although Israel had the written account of the creation week that we have, they did not "share the faith of those who obeyed", like the faith of Abraham, to learn from the manna teaching God's Sabbath.
  3. Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said, “So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’ ” And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world. We who have believed enter that unrealized "rest" and must put forth "every effort to enter that rest". The oath affected the generations until David! God did not help them correct their tradition to enter His Sabbath “rest”. God’s oath shows that He is still against those who do not "share the faith of those who obeyed".
  4. For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from all his works.” The only rest God enters into is the rest He made holy every Sabbath. As we enter the Sabbath “rest” with God, reminded He is that He must complete the work of saving us on the basis that we "share the faith of those who obey". If we make it difficult for Him to save us, He does not want the reminder to finish our personal salvation by entering His Sabbath “rest”.
  5. And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.” To not enter God's "rest" means you do not have His Sabbath "rest" because if you did have His Sabbath "rest" He could not stop you from entering His "rest".
  6. Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, The reason God doesn't want us to go into His weekly Sabbath “rest” is because we don't "share the faith of those who obeyed".
  7. God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted: “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.” The oath affected the generations up to David and continues to affect us who do not have "the faith of those who obeyed". God does not want those who make it difficult for Him to save us to have His Sabbath “rest” reminding Him that He complete what He began in us.
  8. For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. God tells us plainly that He is speaking of another "day" of "rest" than the Sabbath tradition of Judaism. Entering the Promised Land did not change God’s oath, because it lasted until David's generation.
  9. There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; What remains for God's people is the "rest" of the corrected Sabbath that God did not help Israel correct with an oath because they did not "share the faith of those who obeyed".
  10. for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. The only "rest" we know that God enters into is the Sabbath "rest". The Sabbath “rest” is a reminder of salvation and if you make it difficult for Him to save you because you do not share "the faith of those who obeyed", He does not want the reminder of Him needing to complete the work of your salvation each Sabbath “rest”.
  11. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience. We need to "make every effort to enter that rest” that corrects the human tradition of Judaism to find the true "rest" of God’s Sabbath.
  12. For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Corrected is the Sabbath by studying the word of God.
  13. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account. The truth of the Sabbath was foretold by God from the beginning and the reason we do not have the truth about the Sabbath is because we do not "share the faith of those who obeyed". This “rest” spoken of in the passage, the Israelites could have entered into had they “shared the faith of those who obeyed”.
United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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BABerean2

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  • Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. No person has entered God's Sabbath "rest"; even up to the time that Paul wrote the book of Hebrews. "Every effort to enter that rest" mentioned later is still future to correct the Sabbath tradition of Judaism. Paul did not understand what He was writing by inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
  • For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed. This is what God is looking for to save us that we "share the faith of those who obeyed". Although Israel had the written account of the creation week that we have, they did not "share the faith of those who obeyed", like the faith of Abraham, to learn from the manna teaching God's Sabbath.
  • Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said, “So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’ ” And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world. We who have believed enter that unrealized "rest" and must put forth "every effort to enter that rest". The oath affected the generations until David! God did not help them correct their tradition to enter His Sabbath “rest”. God’s oath shows that He is still against those who do not "share the faith of those who obeyed".


It is amazing to some of us that you cannot understand the difference between a day of rest from your works in attempting to keep the obsolete Sinai Covenant, and the Gospel rest of His works at Calvary.

Some of us rest in His works at Calvary.


Heb 4:1 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it.
Heb 4:2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.
Heb 4:3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "SO I SWORE IN MY WRATH, 'THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST,' " although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: "AND GOD RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS";
Heb 4:5 and again in this place: "THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST."
Heb 4:6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience,
Heb 4:7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, "TODAY," after such a long time, as it has been said: "TODAY, IF YOU WILL HEAR HIS VOICE, DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS."
Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
Heb 4:11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Heb 4:13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

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guevaraj

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Some of us rest in His works at Calvary.
Brother, the works of Jesus in Calvary are not the "rest" in which God wants us to enter in Hebrews 3 & 4 because those before Jesus "whose corpses lay in the wilderness" could not have entered what was still future. We must enter the "rest" in which they had not entered for 40 years by oath due to their disobedience. The only "rest" available to them as for us is the "rest" on the Sabbath.

And who made God angry for forty years? Wasn’t it the people who sinned, whose corpses lay in the wilderness? And to whom was God speaking when he took an oath that they would never enter his rest? Wasn’t it the people who disobeyed him? So we see that because of their unbelief they were not able to enter his rest. (Hebrews 3:17-19 NLT)​

The "rest" they could have entered into as we "can" is the Sabbath "rest".

For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” (Hebrews 4:3-4 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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BABerean2

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Brother, the works of Jesus in Calvary are not the "rest" in which God wants us to enter in Hebrews 3 & 4 because those before Jesus "whose corpses lay in the wilderness" could not have entered what was still future. We must enter the "rest" in which they had not entered for 40 years by oath due to their disobedience. The only "rest" available to them as for us is the "rest" on the Sabbath.

The only way to make your claim above work is by ignoring the Gospel in Hebrews chapter 4, and by ignoring the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant found in the Bible.


Did the children of Israel observe the 4th commandment while they were in bondage in Egypt?

Deuteronomy 5:3 proves the Sinai Covenant was not given during an earlier time.


Paul reveals the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant in Galatians 3:16-19. Paul said the law was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed (Christ) could come to whom the promise was made.

Paul told the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage" in Galatians 4:24-31.

The Sinai Covenant has been made "obsolete" by the New Covenant in the verse below.


Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


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guevaraj

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The only way to make your claim above work is by ignoring the Gospel in Hebrews chapter 4, and by ignoring the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant found in the Bible.
Brother, happy Sabbath! It is the word of God. I don't have to make it work! I just need to believe it. When God's word conflicts with our traditions, our traditions are wrong. Especially when your point of view of what Paul is saying is not the only point of view out there. Chapter 3 and 4 of Hebrews are further proof that your view is wrong and that God wants us to keep His Sabbath "rest" established from the beginning. Jesus died so we can do the good things He planned for us "long ago", before sin entered the human family.

For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago. (Ephesians 2:10 NLT)​

The purpose of creating us anew is given in the previous verse: so that we can do the good things He planned for us "long ago". Long ago, God planned for us the seventh day of creation, before sin entered the human family, to remember His "holy" day. We will remember "the Lord's day" in gratitude for His salvation as the early church in Jerusalem did, before the bishops of Rome legislated the invented human tradition of Sunday to replace God's Sabbath that protestants adapted.

As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the Lord, “so will your name and descendants endure. From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord. (Isaiah 66:22-23 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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BABerean2

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We will remember "the Lord's day" in gratitude for His salvation as the early church in Jerusalem did, before the bishops of Rome legislated the invented human tradition of Sunday to replace God's Sabbath that protestants adapted.



Early Church Fathers who lived before the Council of Nicaea comment on the Sabbath:


Ignatius of Antioch

If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death—whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master(Letter to the Magnesians(shorter) Chapter IX.—Let us live with Christ [A.D. 110]).

During the Sabbath He continued under the earth in the tomb in which Joseph of Arimathæa had laid Him. At the dawning of the Lord’s day He arose from the dead, according to what was spoken by Himself, “As Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man also be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” The day of the preparation, then, comprises the passion; the Sabbath embraces the burial; the Lord’s Day contains the resurrection(The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians Longer Versions. Chapter IX.—Reference to the history of Christ.)

Justin Martyr

The Lawgiver is present, yet you do not see Him; to the poor the Gospel is preached, the blind see, yet you do not understand. You have now need of a second circumcision, though you glory greatly in the flesh. The new law requires you to keep perpetual sabbath, and you, because you are idle for one day, suppose you are pious, not discerning why this has been commanded you: and if you eat unleavened bread, you say the will of God has been fulfilled. The Lord our God does not take pleasure in such observances: if there is any perjured person or a thief among you, let him cease to be so; if any adulterer, let him repent; then he has kept the sweet and true sabbaths of God. If any one has impure hands, let him wash and be pure.(Dialogue with Trypho the Jew Chapter XII.—The Jews violate the eternal law, and interpret ill that of Moses.)

For we too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined you,—namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your hearts. For if we patiently endure all things contrived against us by wicked men and demons, so that even amid cruelties unutterable, death and torments, we pray for mercy to those who inflict such things upon us, and do not wish to give the least retort to any one, even as the new Lawgiver commanded us: how is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us, —I speak of fleshly circumcision, and Sabbaths, and feasts?(Dialogue with Trypho the Jew Chapter XVIII.—Christians would observe the law, if they did not know why it was instituted. [A.D. 155]).

And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday,1 all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.(First Apology Chapter LXVII.—Weekly worship of the Christians. [A.D. 155]).

“Wherefore, Trypho, I will proclaim to you, and to those who wish to become proselytes, the divine message which I heard from that man. Do you see that the elements are not idle, and keep no Sabbaths? Remain as you were born. For if there was no need of circumcision before Abraham, or of the observance of Sabbaths, of feasts and sacrifices, before Moses; no more need is there of them now, after that, according to the will of God, Jesus Christ the Son of God has been born without sin, of a virgin sprung from the stock of Abraham. For when Abraham himself was in uncircumcision, he was justified and blessed by reason of the faith which he reposed in God, as the Scripture tells. Moreover, the Scriptures and the facts themselves compel us to admit that He received circumcision for a sign, and not for righteousness.(The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate. Chapter XXIII.—The opinion of the Jews regarding the law does an injury to God.)

“As, then, circumcision began with Abraham, and the Sabbath and sacrifices and offerings and feasts with Moses, and it has been proved they were enjoined on account of the hardness of your people’s heart, so it was necessary, in accordance with the Father’s will, that they should have an end in Him who was born of a virgin, of the family of Abraham and tribe of Judah, and of David; in Christ the Son of God, who was proclaimed as about to come to all the world, to be the everlasting law and the everlasting covenant, even as the forementioned prophecies show.(The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate. Chapter XLIII.—He concludes that the law had an end in Christ, who was born of the Virgin.)

Tertullian

“[L]et him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed as a balm of salvation, and circumcision on the eighth day . . . teach us that, for the time past, righteous men kept the Sabbath or practiced circumcision, and were thus rendered ‘friends of God.’ For if circumcision purges a man, since God made Adam uncircumcised, why did he not circumcise him, even after his sinning, if circumcision purges? . . . Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering him sacrifices, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, was by him [God] commended [Gen. 4:1–7, Heb. 11:4]. . . . Noah also, uncircumcised—yes, and unobservant of the Sabbath—God freed from the deluge. For Enoch too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, he translated from this world, who did not first taste death in order that, being a candidate for eternal life, he might show us that we also may, without the burden of the law of Moses, please God”(An Answer to the Jews Chapter II.—The Law Anterior to Moses. [A.D. 203]).

It follows, accordingly, that, in so far as the abolition of carnal circumcision and of the old law is demonstrated as having been consummated at its specific times, so also the observance of the Sabbath is demonstrated to have been temporary.For the Jews say, that from the beginning God sanctified the seventh day, by resting on it from all His works which He made; and that thence it was, likewise, that Moses said to the People: “Remember the day of the sabbaths, to sanctify it: every servile work ye shall not do therein, except what pertaineth unto life.” Whence we (Christians) understand that we still more ought to observe a sabbath from all “servile work” always, and not only every seventh day, but through all time. And through this arises the question for us, what sabbath God willed us to keep? For the Scriptures point to a sabbath eternal and a sabbath temporal. For Isaiah the prophet says, “Your sabbaths my soul hateth;” and in another place he says, “My sabbaths ye have profaned.”9 Whence we discern that the temporal sabbath is human, and the eternal sabbath is accounted divine; concerning which He predicts through Isaiah: “And there shall be,” He says, “month after month, and day after day, and sabbath after sabbath; and all flesh shall come to adore in Jerusalem, saith the Lord;” which we understand to have been fulfilled in the times of Christ, when “all flesh”—that is, every nation—“came to adore in Jerusalem” God the Father, through Jesus Christ His Son, as was predicted through the prophet: “Behold, proselytes through me shall go unto Thee.” Thus, therefore, before this temporal sabbath, there was withal an eternal sabbath foreshown and foretold; just as before the carnal circumcision there was withal a spiritual circumcision foreshown. In short, let them teach us, as we have already premised, that Adam observed the sabbath; or that Abel, when offering to God a holy victim, pleased Him by a religious reverence for the sabbath; or that Enoch, when translated, had been a keeper of the sabbath; or that Noah the ark-builder observed, on account of the deluge, an immense sabbath; or that Abraham, in observance of the sabbath, offered Isaac his son; or that Melchizedek in his priesthood received the law of the sabbath

But the Jews are sure to say, that ever since this precept was given through Moses, the observance has been binding. Manifest accordingly it is, that the precept was not eternal nor spiritual, but temporary, which would one day cease. In short, so true is it that it is not in the exemption from work of the sabbath—that is, of the seventh day—that the celebration of this solemnity is to consist, that Joshua the son of Nun, at the time that he was reducing the city Jericho by war, stated that he had received from God a precept to order the People that priests should carry the ark of the testament of God seven days, making the circuit of the city; and thus, when the seventh day’s circuit had been performed, the walls of the city would spontaneously fall. Which was so done; and when the space of the seventh day was finished, just as was predicted, down fell the walls of the city. Whence it is manifestly shown, that in the number of the seven days there intervened a sabbath-day. For seven days, whencesoever they may have commenced, must necessarily include within them a sabbath-day; on which day not only must the priests have worked, but the city must have been made a prey by the edge of the sword by all the people of Israel. Nor is it doubtful that they “wrought servile work,” when, in obedience to God’s precept, they drave the preys of war. For in the times of the Maccabees, too, they did bravely in fighting on the sabbaths, and routed their foreign foes, and recalled the law of their fathers to the primitive style of life by fighting on the sabbaths. Nor should I think it was any other law which they thus vindicated, than the one in which they remembered the existence of the prescript touching “the day of the sabbaths.” Whence it is manifest that the force of such precepts was temporary, and respected the necessity of present circumstances; and that it was not with a view to its observance in perpetuity that God formerly gave them such a law.(An Answer to the Jews Chapter IV.—Of the Observance of the Sabbath.)

Therefore, since it is manifest that a sabbath temporal was shown, and a sabbath eternal foretold; a circumcision carnal foretold, and a circumcision spiritual pre-indicated; a law temporal and a law eternal formally declared; sacrifices carnal and sacrifices spiritual foreshown; it follows that, after all these precepts had been given carnally, in time preceding, to the people Israel, there was to supervene a time whereat the precepts of the ancient Law and of the old ceremonies would cease, and the promise3 of the new law, and the recognition of spiritual sacrifices, and the promise of the New Testament, supervene;4 while the light from on high would beam upon us who were sitting in darkness, and were being detained in the shadow of death.5 And so there is incumbent on us a necessity6 binding us, since we have premised that a new law was predicted by the prophets, and that not such as had been already given to their fathers at the time when He led them forth from the land of Egypt,7 to show and prove, on the one hand, that that old Law has ceased, and on the other, that the promised new law is now in operation.

And, indeed, first we must inquire whether there be expected a giver of the new law, and an heir of the new testament, and a priest of the new sacrifices, and a purger of the new circumcision, and an observer of the eternal sabbath, to suppress the old law, and institute the new testament, and offer the new sacrifices, and repress the ancient ceremonies, and suppress8 the old circumcision together with its own sabbath, and announce the new kingdom which is not corruptible. Inquire, I say, we must, whether this giver of the new law, observer of the spiritual sabbath, priest of the eternal sacrifices, eternal ruler of the eternal kingdom, be come or no: that, if he is already come, service may have to be rendered him; if he is not yet come, he may have to be awaited, until by his advent it be manifest that the old Law’s precepts are suppressed, and that the beginnings of the new law ought to arise. And, primarily, we must lay it down that the ancient Law and the prophets could not have ceased, unless He were come who was constantly announced, through the same Law and through the same prophets, as to come.(An Answer to the Jews Chapter VI.—Of the Abolition and the Abolisher of the Old Law. [A.D. 203]).

But you, many of you, also under pretence sometimes of worshipping the heavenly bodies, move your lips in the direction of the sunrise. In the same way, if we devote Sun-day to rejoicing, from a far different reason than Sun-worship, we have some resemblance to those of you who devote the day of Saturn to ease and luxury, though they too go far away from Jewish ways, of which indeed they are ignorant.(Apology Chapter XVI.)

.
 
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Early Church Fathers who lived before the Council of Nicaea comment on the Sabbath:
Brother, the evidence for who changed God's holy day from Sabbath to Sunday was found by my professor, he changed the opinion of his own professor who admitted that the change from Sabbath to Sunday was post apostolic. No apostle was responsible for the change.
The predominant academic opinion before the study of my professor was that the Jerusalem church pioneered the abandonment of the Sabbath for Sunday. The reason is that only the apostolic church in Jerusalem could have the authority to make such a change. My professor was given access to the Vatican Library and to counter this assumption, Bacchiocchi discovered that Epiphanius (about 350) tells the story of the direct descendants of the Jerusalem church. Epiphanius informs us that the Nazarenes persisted in the observance of the Sabbath until his own time (about A.D. 350). Bacchiocchi found this document in Greek and Latin. He shared this finding with his professor, who admitted that this was a fatal blow to the thought that the Jerusalem church made the change from Sabbath to Sunday to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus. If a direct descendent of the Jerusalem church insisted and persisted in the observance of the Sabbath until the fourth century, then they could hardly have been responsible for changing the Sabbath to Sunday in the first place. His finding definitely showed the Jerusalem church is excluded. In his defense of his dissertation, his professor admitted having changed his mind and acknowledged that Sunday keeping is a post apostolic phenomenon. United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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Brother, the evidence for who changed God's holy day from Sabbath to Sunday was found by my professor, he changed the opinion of his own professor who admitted that the change from Sabbath to Sunday was post apostolic. No apostle was responsible for the change.
The predominant academic opinion before the study of my professor was that the Jerusalem church pioneered the abandonment of the Sabbath for Sunday. The reason is that only the apostolic church in Jerusalem could have the authority to make such a change. My professor was given access to the Vatican Library and to counter this assumption, Bacchiocchi discovered that Epiphanius (about 350) tells the story of the direct descendants of the Jerusalem church. Epiphanius informs us that the Nazarenes persisted in the observance of the Sabbath until his own time (about A.D. 350). Bacchiocchi found this document in Greek and Latin. He shared this finding with his professor, who admitted that this was a fatal blow to the thought that the Jerusalem church made the change from Sabbath to Sunday to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus. If a direct descendent of the Jerusalem church insisted and persisted in the observance of the Sabbath until the fourth century, then they could hardly have been responsible for changing the Sabbath to Sunday in the first place. His finding definitely showed the Jerusalem church is excluded. In his defense of his dissertation, his professor admitted having changed his mind and acknowledged that Sunday keeping is a post apostolic phenomenon. United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

I have his book in my library.

He was the first Adventist to ever earn a degree from the Vatican's Jesuit university. Do you not find that just a little bit strange.

He is talking about one document written after the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD.

The testimony of those who lived before that time is found below.



Early Church Fathers who lived before the Council of Nicaea comment on the Sabbath:


Ignatius of Antioch

If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death—whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master(Letter to the Magnesians(shorter) Chapter IX.—Let us live with Christ [A.D. 110]).

During the Sabbath He continued under the earth in the tomb in which Joseph of Arimathæa had laid Him. At the dawning of the Lord’s day He arose from the dead, according to what was spoken by Himself, “As Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man also be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” The day of the preparation, then, comprises the passion; the Sabbath embraces the burial; the Lord’s Day contains the resurrection(The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians Longer Versions. Chapter IX.—Reference to the history of Christ.)

Justin Martyr

The Lawgiver is present, yet you do not see Him; to the poor the Gospel is preached, the blind see, yet you do not understand. You have now need of a second circumcision, though you glory greatly in the flesh. The new law requires you to keep perpetual sabbath, and you, because you are idle for one day, suppose you are pious, not discerning why this has been commanded you: and if you eat unleavened bread, you say the will of God has been fulfilled. The Lord our God does not take pleasure in such observances: if there is any perjured person or a thief among you, let him cease to be so; if any adulterer, let him repent; then he has kept the sweet and true sabbaths of God. If any one has impure hands, let him wash and be pure.(Dialogue with Trypho the Jew Chapter XII.—The Jews violate the eternal law, and interpret ill that of Moses.)

For we too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined you,—namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your hearts. For if we patiently endure all things contrived against us by wicked men and demons, so that even amid cruelties unutterable, death and torments, we pray for mercy to those who inflict such things upon us, and do not wish to give the least retort to any one, even as the new Lawgiver commanded us: how is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us, —I speak of fleshly circumcision, and Sabbaths, and feasts?(Dialogue with Trypho the Jew Chapter XVIII.—Christians would observe the law, if they did not know why it was instituted. [A.D. 155]).

And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday,1 all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.(First Apology Chapter LXVII.—Weekly worship of the Christians. [A.D. 155]).

“Wherefore, Trypho, I will proclaim to you, and to those who wish to become proselytes, the divine message which I heard from that man. Do you see that the elements are not idle, and keep no Sabbaths? Remain as you were born. For if there was no need of circumcision before Abraham, or of the observance of Sabbaths, of feasts and sacrifices, before Moses; no more need is there of them now, after that, according to the will of God, Jesus Christ the Son of God has been born without sin, of a virgin sprung from the stock of Abraham. For when Abraham himself was in uncircumcision, he was justified and blessed by reason of the faith which he reposed in God, as the Scripture tells. Moreover, the Scriptures and the facts themselves compel us to admit that He received circumcision for a sign, and not for righteousness.(The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate. Chapter XXIII.—The opinion of the Jews regarding the law does an injury to God.)

“As, then, circumcision began with Abraham, and the Sabbath and sacrifices and offerings and feasts with Moses, and it has been proved they were enjoined on account of the hardness of your people’s heart, so it was necessary, in accordance with the Father’s will, that they should have an end in Him who was born of a virgin, of the family of Abraham and tribe of Judah, and of David; in Christ the Son of God, who was proclaimed as about to come to all the world, to be the everlasting law and the everlasting covenant, even as the forementioned prophecies show.(The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate. Chapter XLIII.—He concludes that the law had an end in Christ, who was born of the Virgin.)

Tertullian

“[L]et him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed as a balm of salvation, and circumcision on the eighth day . . . teach us that, for the time past, righteous men kept the Sabbath or practiced circumcision, and were thus rendered ‘friends of God.’ For if circumcision purges a man, since God made Adam uncircumcised, why did he not circumcise him, even after his sinning, if circumcision purges? . . . Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering him sacrifices, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, was by him [God] commended [Gen. 4:1–7, Heb. 11:4]. . . . Noah also, uncircumcised—yes, and unobservant of the Sabbath—God freed from the deluge. For Enoch too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, he translated from this world, who did not first taste death in order that, being a candidate for eternal life, he might show us that we also may, without the burden of the law of Moses, please God”(An Answer to the Jews Chapter II.—The Law Anterior to Moses. [A.D. 203]).

It follows, accordingly, that, in so far as the abolition of carnal circumcision and of the old law is demonstrated as having been consummated at its specific times, so also the observance of the Sabbath is demonstrated to have been temporary.For the Jews say, that from the beginning God sanctified the seventh day, by resting on it from all His works which He made; and that thence it was, likewise, that Moses said to the People: “Remember the day of the sabbaths, to sanctify it: every servile work ye shall not do therein, except what pertaineth unto life.” Whence we (Christians) understand that we still more ought to observe a sabbath from all “servile work” always, and not only every seventh day, but through all time. And through this arises the question for us, what sabbath God willed us to keep? For the Scriptures point to a sabbath eternal and a sabbath temporal. For Isaiah the prophet says, “Your sabbaths my soul hateth;” and in another place he says, “My sabbaths ye have profaned.”9 Whence we discern that the temporal sabbath is human, and the eternal sabbath is accounted divine; concerning which He predicts through Isaiah: “And there shall be,” He says, “month after month, and day after day, and sabbath after sabbath; and all flesh shall come to adore in Jerusalem, saith the Lord;” which we understand to have been fulfilled in the times of Christ, when “all flesh”—that is, every nation—“came to adore in Jerusalem” God the Father, through Jesus Christ His Son, as was predicted through the prophet: “Behold, proselytes through me shall go unto Thee.” Thus, therefore, before this temporal sabbath, there was withal an eternal sabbath foreshown and foretold; just as before the carnal circumcision there was withal a spiritual circumcision foreshown. In short, let them teach us, as we have already premised, that Adam observed the sabbath; or that Abel, when offering to God a holy victim, pleased Him by a religious reverence for the sabbath; or that Enoch, when translated, had been a keeper of the sabbath; or that Noah the ark-builder observed, on account of the deluge, an immense sabbath; or that Abraham, in observance of the sabbath, offered Isaac his son; or that Melchizedek in his priesthood received the law of the sabbath

But the Jews are sure to say, that ever since this precept was given through Moses, the observance has been binding. Manifest accordingly it is, that the precept was not eternal nor spiritual, but temporary, which would one day cease. In short, so true is it that it is not in the exemption from work of the sabbath—that is, of the seventh day—that the celebration of this solemnity is to consist, that Joshua the son of Nun, at the time that he was reducing the city Jericho by war, stated that he had received from God a precept to order the People that priests should carry the ark of the testament of God seven days, making the circuit of the city; and thus, when the seventh day’s circuit had been performed, the walls of the city would spontaneously fall. Which was so done; and when the space of the seventh day was finished, just as was predicted, down fell the walls of the city. Whence it is manifestly shown, that in the number of the seven days there intervened a sabbath-day. For seven days, whencesoever they may have commenced, must necessarily include within them a sabbath-day; on which day not only must the priests have worked, but the city must have been made a prey by the edge of the sword by all the people of Israel. Nor is it doubtful that they “wrought servile work,” when, in obedience to God’s precept, they drave the preys of war. For in the times of the Maccabees, too, they did bravely in fighting on the sabbaths, and routed their foreign foes, and recalled the law of their fathers to the primitive style of life by fighting on the sabbaths. Nor should I think it was any other law which they thus vindicated, than the one in which they remembered the existence of the prescript touching “the day of the sabbaths.” Whence it is manifest that the force of such precepts was temporary, and respected the necessity of present circumstances; and that it was not with a view to its observance in perpetuity that God formerly gave them such a law.(An Answer to the Jews Chapter IV.—Of the Observance of the Sabbath.)

Therefore, since it is manifest that a sabbath temporal was shown, and a sabbath eternal foretold; a circumcision carnal foretold, and a circumcision spiritual pre-indicated; a law temporal and a law eternal formally declared; sacrifices carnal and sacrifices spiritual foreshown; it follows that, after all these precepts had been given carnally, in time preceding, to the people Israel, there was to supervene a time whereat the precepts of the ancient Law and of the old ceremonies would cease, and the promise3 of the new law, and the recognition of spiritual sacrifices, and the promise of the New Testament, supervene;4 while the light from on high would beam upon us who were sitting in darkness, and were being detained in the shadow of death.5 And so there is incumbent on us a necessity6 binding us, since we have premised that a new law was predicted by the prophets, and that not such as had been already given to their fathers at the time when He led them forth from the land of Egypt,7 to show and prove, on the one hand, that that old Law has ceased, and on the other, that the promised new law is now in operation.

And, indeed, first we must inquire whether there be expected a giver of the new law, and an heir of the new testament, and a priest of the new sacrifices, and a purger of the new circumcision, and an observer of the eternal sabbath, to suppress the old law, and institute the new testament, and offer the new sacrifices, and repress the ancient ceremonies, and suppress8 the old circumcision together with its own sabbath, and announce the new kingdom which is not corruptible. Inquire, I say, we must, whether this giver of the new law, observer of the spiritual sabbath, priest of the eternal sacrifices, eternal ruler of the eternal kingdom, be come or no: that, if he is already come, service may have to be rendered him; if he is not yet come, he may have to be awaited, until by his advent it be manifest that the old Law’s precepts are suppressed, and that the beginnings of the new law ought to arise. And, primarily, we must lay it down that the ancient Law and the prophets could not have ceased, unless He were come who was constantly announced, through the same Law and through the same prophets, as to come.(An Answer to the Jews Chapter VI.—Of the Abolition and the Abolisher of the Old Law. [A.D. 203]).

But you, many of you, also under pretence sometimes of worshipping the heavenly bodies, move your lips in the direction of the sunrise. In the same way, if we devote Sun-day to rejoicing, from a far different reason than Sun-worship, we have some resemblance to those of you who devote the day of Saturn to ease and luxury, though they too go far away from Jewish ways, of which indeed they are ignorant.(Apology Chapter XVI.)
 
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guevaraj

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I have his book in my library. He was the first Adventist to ever earn a degree from the Vatican's Jesuit university. Do you not find that just a little bit strange. He is talking about one document written after the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD.
Brother, happy Sabbath! I think I have found an English translation online of what my professor discovered in Greek and Latin in the Vatican library. The excerpts below tell us that these Nazoreans are direct descendants of the Jerusalem church after the disciples fled to Pella before the Romans destroyed the temple in 70 AD. They keep the Jewish Sabbath until the time of Epiphanius in the fourth century.

Epiphanius’ Panarion
Wikipedia gives us a description of this body of work: the Panarion, meaning "bread basket", later translated to Latin under the name “Against Heresies”, is the most important of the works of Epiphanius of Salamis (d. 403). It was written in Koine Greek beginning in 374 or 375, and issued about three years later, as a treatise on heresies, with its title referring to the text as a "stock of remedies to offset the poisons of heresy." It treats 80 religious sects, either organized groups or philosophies, from the time of Adam to the latter part of the fourth century, detailing their histories, and rebutting their beliefs.

Part 29. Epiphanius Against the Nazoraeans
...
5:6 For by hearing just Jesus’ name, and seeing the miracles performed by the hands of the apostles, they came to faith in Jesus themselves. And since they found that he had been conceived at Nazareth and brought up in Joseph’s home, and for this reason is called ‘Jesus the Nazoraean’ in the Gospel—as the apostles say, ‘Jesus the Nazoraean, a man approved by signs and wonders,’ and so on—they adopted this name, so as to be called Nazoreans.
...
7:5 They are different from Jews, and different from Christians, only in the following ways. They disagree with Jews because of their belief in Christ; but they are not in accord with Christians because they are still fettered by the Law—circumcision, the Sabbath, and the rest.
...
7:7 This sect of Nazoraeans is to be found in Beroea near Coelesyria, in the Decapolis near Pella, and in Bashanitis at the place called Cocabe—Khokhabe in Hebrew.
7:8 For that was its place of origin, since all the disciples had settled in Pella after their remove from Jerusalem—Christ having told them to abandon Jerusalem and withdraw from it because of the siege it was about to undergo. And they settled in Peraea for this reason and, as I said, lived their lives there. It was from this that the Nazoraean sect had its origin.
...
United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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BABerean2

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7:5 They are different from Jews, and different from Christians, only in the following ways. They disagree with Jews because of their belief in Christ; but they are not in accord with Christians because they are still fettered by the Law—circumcision, the Sabbath, and the rest.


Based on the Book of Galatians, and Acts chapter 15, these people would be known as Judaisers.

The Book of Galatians, and the Book of Hebrews were written to correct the errors of these people, and you and your professor are attempting to use these people as your source of truth.
What is wrong with this picture?

These people have ignored Galatians 3:16-19, and Galatians 4:24-31, and so have you.


See the warning against these lost people below.

Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:


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guevaraj

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Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
Brother, notice that in the verse you quote it says they "went out from us" and it does not say they are not of us. They are getting ahead of the work of the Holy Spirit with the "Gentiles who are turning to God" to make them citizens of Israel faster.

remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ... Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household (Ephesians 2:12,13,19 NIV)​

The Holy Spirit grows you slowly to obey the law as James allowed the Holy Spirit to grow "Gentiles who are turning to God" slowly as they listen to the law of Moses every Sabbath.

“It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.” (Acts 15:19-21 NIV)​

Are you ready in your growth with the Holy Spirit to accept God's call to keep the Sabbath in Hebrews 3 and 4, so that no one will "perish" in following the example of disobedience of those "whose corpses lay in the wilderness" for 40 years before entering the Promised land. Expressed by Jesus below is this truth of not growing us faster than we can "bear".

I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. (John 16:12-14 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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BABerean2

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Brother, notice that in the verse you quote it says they "went out from us" and it does not say they are not of us. They are getting ahead of the work of the Holy Spirit with the "Gentiles who are turning to God" to make them citizens of Israel faster.

remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ... Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household (Ephesians 2:12,13,19 NIV)​

The Holy Spirit grows you slowly to obey the law as James allowed the Holy Spirit to grow "Gentiles who are turning to God" slowly as they listen to the law of Moses every Sabbath.

“It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.” (Acts 15:19-21 NIV)​

Are you ready in your growth with the Holy Spirit to accept God's call to keep the Sabbath in Hebrews 3 and 4, so that no one will "perish" in following the example of disobedience of those "whose corpses lay in the wilderness" for 40 years before entering the Promised land. Expressed by Jesus below is this truth of not growing us faster than we can "bear".

I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. (John 16:12-14 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge


It it your claim that circumcision is for those who are more mature in the Body of Christ, like you?


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It it your claim that circumcision is for those who are more mature in the Body of Christ, like you?
Brothers, physical circumcision pointed to a time when God would do the true circumcision of the heart in us. Paul is not ending "circumcision"! Paul is saying that the external circumcision of the mutilators of the flesh is no longer under our control because it is done by God. The true circumcision of God is within us. We still need circumcision to belong to Jesus, even though it is no longer external.

Watch out for those dogs, those evildoers, those mutilators of the flesh. For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh (Philippians 3:2-3 NIV)​

What is still under our control, as an external "sign", that we follow God and are not rebellious like His enemy, is the Sabbath. I do not see the external "sign" that God has circumcised the heart in the human tradition of Sunday worship.

I am the Lord your God; follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. Keep my Sabbaths holy, that they may be a sign between us. Then you will know that I am the Lord your God.” (Ezekiel 20:19-20 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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BABerean2

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I do not see the external "sign" that God has circumcised the heart in the human tradition of Sunday worship.

The Ten Commandments

Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
Deu 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
Deu 5:4 The LORD talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,
Deu 5:5 (I stood between the LORD and you at that time, to shew you the word of the LORD: for ye were afraid by reason of the fire, and went not up into the mount;) saying,
Deu 5:6 I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
Deu 5:7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me.
Deu 5:8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:
Deu 5:9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
Deu 5:10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
Deu 5:11 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Deu 5:12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
Deu 5:13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:
Deu 5:14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
Deu 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
Deu 5:16 Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
Deu 5:17 Thou shalt not kill.
Deu 5:18 Neither shalt thou commit adultery.
Deu 5:19 Neither shalt thou steal.
Deu 5:20 Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Deu 5:21 Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Deu 5:22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

.......................

Joh_20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

Act_20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

1Co_16:2
Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.


..................................



Early Church Fathers who lived before the Council of Nicaea comment on the Sabbath:


Ignatius of Antioch

If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death—whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master(Letter to the Magnesians(shorter) Chapter IX.—Let us live with Christ [A.D. 110]).

During the Sabbath He continued under the earth in the tomb in which Joseph of Arimathæa had laid Him. At the dawning of the Lord’s day He arose from the dead, according to what was spoken by Himself, “As Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man also be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” The day of the preparation, then, comprises the passion; the Sabbath embraces the burial; the Lord’s Day contains the resurrection(The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians Longer Versions. Chapter IX.—Reference to the history of Christ.)

Justin Martyr

The Lawgiver is present, yet you do not see Him; to the poor the Gospel is preached, the blind see, yet you do not understand. You have now need of a second circumcision, though you glory greatly in the flesh. The new law requires you to keep perpetual sabbath, and you, because you are idle for one day, suppose you are pious, not discerning why this has been commanded you: and if you eat unleavened bread, you say the will of God has been fulfilled. The Lord our God does not take pleasure in such observances: if there is any perjured person or a thief among you, let him cease to be so; if any adulterer, let him repent; then he has kept the sweet and true sabbaths of God. If any one has impure hands, let him wash and be pure.(Dialogue with Trypho the Jew Chapter XII.—The Jews violate the eternal law, and interpret ill that of Moses.)

For we too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined you,—namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your hearts. For if we patiently endure all things contrived against us by wicked men and demons, so that even amid cruelties unutterable, death and torments, we pray for mercy to those who inflict such things upon us, and do not wish to give the least retort to any one, even as the new Lawgiver commanded us: how is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us, —I speak of fleshly circumcision, and Sabbaths, and feasts?(Dialogue with Trypho the Jew Chapter XVIII.—Christians would observe the law, if they did not know why it was instituted. [A.D. 155]).

And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday,1 all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.(First Apology Chapter LXVII.—Weekly worship of the Christians. [A.D. 155]).

“Wherefore, Trypho, I will proclaim to you, and to those who wish to become proselytes, the divine message which I heard from that man. Do you see that the elements are not idle, and keep no Sabbaths? Remain as you were born. For if there was no need of circumcision before Abraham, or of the observance of Sabbaths, of feasts and sacrifices, before Moses; no more need is there of them now, after that, according to the will of God, Jesus Christ the Son of God has been born without sin, of a virgin sprung from the stock of Abraham. For when Abraham himself was in uncircumcision, he was justified and blessed by reason of the faith which he reposed in God, as the Scripture tells. Moreover, the Scriptures and the facts themselves compel us to admit that He received circumcision for a sign, and not for righteousness.(The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate. Chapter XXIII.—The opinion of the Jews regarding the law does an injury to God.)

“As, then, circumcision began with Abraham, and the Sabbath and sacrifices and offerings and feasts with Moses, and it has been proved they were enjoined on account of the hardness of your people’s heart, so it was necessary, in accordance with the Father’s will, that they should have an end in Him who was born of a virgin, of the family of Abraham and tribe of Judah, and of David; in Christ the Son of God, who was proclaimed as about to come to all the world, to be the everlasting law and the everlasting covenant, even as the forementioned prophecies show.(The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate. Chapter XLIII.—He concludes that the law had an end in Christ, who was born of the Virgin.)

Tertullian

“[L]et him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed as a balm of salvation, and circumcision on the eighth day . . . teach us that, for the time past, righteous men kept the Sabbath or practiced circumcision, and were thus rendered ‘friends of God.’ For if circumcision purges a man, since God made Adam uncircumcised, why did he not circumcise him, even after his sinning, if circumcision purges? . . . Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering him sacrifices, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, was by him [God] commended [Gen. 4:1–7, Heb. 11:4]. . . . Noah also, uncircumcised—yes, and unobservant of the Sabbath—God freed from the deluge. For Enoch too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, he translated from this world, who did not first taste death in order that, being a candidate for eternal life, he might show us that we also may, without the burden of the law of Moses, please God”(An Answer to the Jews Chapter II.—The Law Anterior to Moses. [A.D. 203]).

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guevaraj

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Joh_20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

Act_20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

1Co_16:2
Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
Brother, did you know that Sunday is not anywhere in the Bible? Everywhere in the Bible where translated is Sunday, it actually says "the first of the Sabbaths". A phrase of God not understood and the best assumption that occurred to them was Sunday. Knowing what I know about the Sabbath, I understand that God's phrase refers to the first Sabbath in Eden or another way in which God say the seventh day of the week, Saturday. Here is a closer translation of God's phrase from the Good News Bible.

On Saturday evening we gathered together for the fellowship meal. Paul spoke to the people and kept on speaking until midnight, since he was going to leave the next day. (Acts 20:7 GNB)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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BABerean2

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On Saturday evening we gathered together for the fellowship meal. Paul spoke to the people and kept on speaking until midnight, since he was going to leave the next day. (Acts 20:7 GNB)
United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge


If you have to change the Bible to make the SDA doctrine work, it should be a big red flag for all of us.


Acts 20:7

(ESV) On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight.

(ESV+) R26On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together R1to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight.

(Geneva) And the first day of the weeke, the disciples being come together to breake bread, Paul preached vnto them, ready to depart on the morrow, and continued the preaching vnto midnight.

(GW) On Sunday we met to break bread. Paul was discussing Scripture with the people. Since he intended to leave the next day, he kept talking until midnight.

(KJV) And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

(KJV+) AndG1161 uponG1722 theG3588 firstG3391 day of theG3588 week,G4521 when theG3588 disciplesG3101 came togetherG4863 to breakG2806 bread,G740 PaulG3972 preachedG1256 unto them,G846 readyG3195 to departG1826 on theG3588 morrow;G1887 andG5037 continuedG3905 his speechG3056 untilG3360 midnight.G3317

(NKJV) Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight.

(NLT) On the first day of the week
, we gathered with the local believers to share in the Lord’s Supper. Paul was preaching to them, and since he was leaving the next day, he kept talking until midnight.

(YLT) And on the first of the week, the disciples having been gathered together to break bread, Paul was discoursing to them, about to depart on the morrow, he was also continuing the discourse till midnight,


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If you have to change the Bible to make the SDA doctrine work, it should be a big red flag for all of us.
Brother, we Seventh-day Adventists are not responsible for translating the Good News Bible.

On Saturday (sabbatōn) evening we gathered together for the fellowship meal. Paul spoke to the people and kept on speaking until midnight, since he was going to leave the next day. (Acts 20:7 GNB)​

The word in red above is the same original Greek word as the one found in the verse below.

Then Jesus went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath (sabbatōn) he went as usual to the synagogue. He stood up to read the Scriptures (Luke 4:16 GNB)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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