Old and New Testament Discrepancy - What Gives?

Question.Everything · Sep 18, 2011

To anybody that's read the Bible, the Old and New testaments are pretty different.

In the Old Testament we have slavery, genocide, brutality, stonings, fear tactics, degradation of women, and so on.

In the New Testament we have teachings of nothing but love, compassion, poorness, the "meek" inheriting the Earth, and so on.

Obviously these testaments were different enough to warrant their own "chunk" of the Bible (enough to even warrant a completely different religion - Judaism).

My question: why would God create two completely different testaments to send his message? Surely Jesus wouldn't understand the mistreatment of women, slavery, brutality, genocide, fear-propaganda, etc. It seems each testament teaches a completely different viewpoint.

Why is there such discrepancy? (and I do understand the concept of Law & Gospel)

drich0150 · Sep 18, 2011

Question.Everything said:
To anybody that's read the Bible, the Old and New testaments are pretty different.

In the Old Testament we have slavery, genocide, brutality, stonings, fear tactics, degradation of women, and so on.

In the New Testament we have teachings of nothing but love, compassion, poorness, the "meek" inheriting the Earth, and so on.

Obviously these testaments were different enough to warrant their own "chunk" of the Bible (enough to even warrant a completely different religion - Judaism).

My question: why would God create two completely different testaments to send his message? Surely Jesus wouldn't understand the mistreatment of women, slavery, brutality, genocide, fear-propaganda, etc. It seems each testament teaches a completely different viewpoint.

Why is there such discrepancy?

Two sides of the same coin.

God could not give "us" a complete revelation in the beginning because "we" were not ready for it.

Question.Everything · Sep 18, 2011

drich0150 said:
God could not give "us" a complete revelation in the beginning because "we" were not ready for it.

That's only because he created us "not ready" for it (he knows all, remember).

Again, what gives? Why the discrepancy in what we were then versus what we are now? We are absolutely 100%+ different.

Use your power of reason and draw on a chart what human-kind has accomplished in the past 100,000-200,000 years. Look at the scale, and look at the discrepancy (slope). It flows perfectly with the idea that the OT and NT would be so vastly different. Different people, different ideas.

What you attempted to do was answer the question by dodging the question. My reply should address why that doesn't work here.

drich0150 · Sep 18, 2011

Question.Everything said:
That's only because he created us "not ready" for it (he knows all, remember).

We were not made ready because we were allowed to develop at our own pace and understanding.. It kinda goes along with the whole free will thing.

Again, what gives? Why the discrepancy in what we were then versus what we are now? We are absolutely 100%+ different.

why do you think their are differences between what we are as children and what we are as adults?

Use your power of reason and draw on a chart what human-kind has accomplished in the past 100,000-200,000 years. Look at the scale, and look at the discrepancy (slope). It flows perfectly with the idea that the OT and NT would be so vastly different. Different people, different ideas.

why do you think their is such a vast discrepancy?

What you attempted to do was answer the question by dodging the question. My reply should address why that doesn't work here.

I answered your question very directly. In that it is a different side of the same coin. One side was directed to who we were as a people, and the other was directed at who we were to become. we needed to understand what the law was and it's consequences in order to understand what freedom from the Law is.

razeontherock · Sep 18, 2011

To the OP: since you ask the question, it seems that if you were to lay bare your understanding of the 2 Covenants, we would see some misunderstandings we could clarify. This would be a much more direct approach than anything else we could do

bsd31 · Sep 18, 2011

Maybe it is just me but I don't see that much of a difference between the two. I certainly see differences but they aren't entirely opposite.

To the lay reader the OT seems to focus almost exclusively on God's justice, His wrath, mankind's rebellion, and the consequences. But there is a lot in the OT about God's love for His chosen people and people in general. There's a lot to indicate His patience and tender heart towards mankind.

On the other hand the NT seems to be all about His mercy and His kindness, but throughout it is woven warnings about His wrath and justice.

maizer · Sep 18, 2011

Question.Everything said:
To anybody that's read the Bible, the Old and New testaments are pretty different.

In the Old Testament we have slavery, genocide, brutality, stonings, fear tactics, degradation of women, and so on.

In the New Testament we have teachings of nothing but love, compassion, poorness, the "meek" inheriting the Earth, and so on.

Obviously these testaments were different enough to warrant their own "chunk" of the Bible (enough to even warrant a completely different religion - Judaism).

My question: why would God create two completely different testaments to send his message? Surely Jesus wouldn't understand the mistreatment of women, slavery, brutality, genocide, fear-propaganda, etc. It seems each testament teaches a completely different viewpoint.

Why is there such discrepancy? (and I do understand the concept of Law & Gospel)

Good question, personally I don't know why the difference, but I do think they are two sides of the same coin. There were/are similar crimes and atrocities(baby killings, crucifictions, etc etc) going on in Jesus's time on to today, and there were acts of love, courage, forgiveness and humility in the Old Testament as well. The vast majority of brutality in the Old Testament was due to wars and famine, and human greed and lust taking over. Kind of like reading an account of WW2. The New Testament is like the instructions given after all the suffering.

elopez · Sep 18, 2011

Question.Everything said:
To anybody that's read the Bible, the Old and New testaments are pretty different.

I would say that is rather clear, yes. There are numerous differences between the OT and the NT. It is too obvious to even mention them.

Question.Everything said:
In the Old Testament we have slavery, genocide, brutality, stonings, fear tactics, degradation of women, and so on.

Yes, OT times were barbaric. Those were how the people of the time lived and thought life should be lived.

Question.Everything said:
In the New Testament we have teachings of nothing but love, compassion, poorness, the "meek" inheriting the Earth, and so on.

Yup.

Question.Everything said:
Obviously these testaments were different enough to warrant their own "chunk" of the Bible (enough to even warrant a completely different religion - Judaism).

While there are differences there are also relevant similarities.

Question.Everything said:
My question: why would God create two completely different testaments to send his message? Surely Jesus wouldn't understand the mistreatment of women, slavery, brutality, genocide, fear-propaganda, etc. It seems each testament teaches a completely different viewpoint.

I wouldn't say the OT was condoning or saying that slavery was okay, for example. It was simply an account given of slavery and what it consisted of back then. Also, your question is based on the misconception that God did not exhibit any of the attributes such as love and compassion in the OT, or did not exhibit wrath and punishment in the NT. The teaching is no different between the two testaments. What is different is the environment of each testament.

Question.Everything said:
Why is there such discrepancy? (and I do understand the concept of Law & Gospel)

I don't see any discrepancy as a God of wrath and love are not mutually exclusive.

Tenorikuma · Sep 18, 2011

Question.Everything said:
My question: why would God create two completely different testaments to send his message?

I think you are assuming a premise that doesn't hold up: God didn't write the Bible. Men did. Eliminate this misconception, and that sort of problem solves itself.

Now, theologians from different branches of Christianity will discuss and dispute over the meaning of terms like "inspiration" and what it means in practice for the Bible to be authoritative. But the Bible isn't a book written by God; it's dozens of books written by men over many centuries, chosen and preserved by the church as its most important foundational documents.

In the end, we're Christians, not Jews. Jesus' words of peace, love and gentleness take precedence over the barbarous tribal practices of the ancient Hebrews.

Nanopants · Sep 18, 2011

Question.Everything said:
To anybody that's read the Bible, the Old and New testaments are pretty different.

In the Old Testament we have slavery, genocide, brutality, stonings, fear tactics, degradation of women, and so on.

In the New Testament we have teachings of nothing but love, compassion, poorness, the "meek" inheriting the Earth, and so on.

Obviously these testaments were different enough to warrant their own "chunk" of the Bible (enough to even warrant a completely different religion - Judaism).

My question: why would God create two completely different testaments to send his message? Surely Jesus wouldn't understand the mistreatment of women, slavery, brutality, genocide, fear-propaganda, etc. It seems each testament teaches a completely different viewpoint.

Why is there such discrepancy? (and I do understand the concept of Law & Gospel)

One way to look at it is to see the difference as a result of God's progressive revelation to us. The idea is that the people before Christ were touched by God, but they just didn't have the better revelation given to us by Jesus Christ.

We can only speculate as to why God wouldn't just unload the whole thing on humanity at once, and my best guess is that humanity wasn't ready for it until the time of Christ.

zaksmummy · Sep 19, 2011

When you read the OT what you get is history, the making of the nation of Israel and prophecy about a future Messiah who will bring Israel everlasting peace.

What you also get is God instructions. These are contained Genesis to Deuteronomy. What you dont get is how these instructions were applied by the nation of Israel to whom they were given. So what happens is that you read a commandment, and think wow thats cruel because you are reading the bare bones of it and dont have any flesh. Sometimes the commandments are mis understood.

The best example of this is "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth". This is often understood as meaning if someone gouges your eye out, you do the same to them. But if you asked a Jewish Rabbi, he would give you a completely different answer. He would say "you pay the injured person compensation to whatever injury you have inflicted upon him".

So if you want to know how the commandments were implemented read Jewish literature - the legal rulings surrounding the commandments are written in the Talmud. Having read a little bit of it, what I have found is that the commandments are not cruel at all, they just take a bit of understanding.

zaksmummy · Sep 19, 2011

Anyway when you get to the new testament what you see is how the commandments had been implemented within Israel and what you get from Jesus is how God wants the commandments to be implemented, which is why he had so many disagreements with the Pharisees - they were discussing how they should be correctly implemented.

salida · Sep 19, 2011

Question.Everything said:
To anybody that's read the Bible, the Old and New testaments are pretty different.

In the Old Testament we have slavery, genocide, brutality, stonings, fear tactics, degradation of women, and so on.

In the New Testament we have teachings of nothing but love, compassion, poorness, the "meek" inheriting the Earth, and so on.

Obviously these testaments were different enough to warrant their own "chunk" of the Bible (enough to even warrant a completely different religion - Judaism).

My question: why would God create two completely different testaments to send his message? Surely Jesus wouldn't understand the mistreatment of women, slavery, brutality, genocide, fear-propaganda, etc. It seems each testament teaches a completely different viewpoint.

Why is there such discrepancy? (and I do understand the concept of Law & Gospel)

Why is God so different in the OT than He is in the NT?
http://www.gotquestions.org/difference-old-new-testaments.html
　
Why should we study the Old Testament?
http://www.gotquestions.org/old-testament.html

Faulty · Sep 19, 2011

Question.Everything said:
In the Old Testament we have slavery, genocide, brutality, stonings, fear tactics, degradation of women, and so on.

Sounds like today's news headlines. Sin has always produced the same garbage over and over again.

Tenorikuma · Sep 20, 2011

Faulty said:
Sounds like today's news headlines. Sin has always produced the same garbage over and over again.

The obvious difference is that it is Yahweh who commands the slavery, genocide, brutality, stonings, fear tactics, and degradation of women in the Old Testament. The challenge for Christians is going beyond a naive interpretation of the Bible which assumes God actually ordered and approves of those things.

Nanopants · Sep 20, 2011

Tenorikuma said:
The obvious difference is that it is Yahweh who commands the slavery, genocide, brutality, stonings, fear tactics, and degradation of women in the Old Testament. The challenge for Christians is going beyond a naive interpretation in the Bible which assumes God actually ordered and approves of those things.

to this... I for one think that it's fascinating that Israel prophesied that the line of Levi his son would be cruel, which by extension may or may not have something to say about the levitical order of the OC. On second thought, is it really any wonder that Moses was set aside and disallowed to enter the promised land? The explanation was that he made only one small mistake, but also that his sin was in misrepresenting God. One can only wonder.

zaksmummy · Sep 20, 2011

Tenorikuma said:
The obvious difference is that it is Yahweh who commands the slavery, genocide, brutality, stonings, fear tactics, and degradation of women in the Old Testament. The challenge for Christians is going beyond a naive interpretation of the Bible which assumes God actually ordered and approves of those things.

You need to understand the culture of the people around Israel. Slavery was common in every culture, as was murder, what God did in giving instructions was teaching the people to be kind to their slaves rather than brutal, ensuring that there was a rule of law and a court, through the use of a sanhedrin.

One thing to note about Hebrew slaves. Their slavery was temporary - they were set free in the Year of Jubilee, unless they choose to stay with their master.

Women were not degraded in the bible, actually they had rights - rights to be treated properly by their husbands, potential husbands and the community at large. They had rights to property if they had no brothers, and they were taken care of in the event of divorce, or death of their husband.

Tenorikuma · Sep 20, 2011

zaksmummy said:
You need to understand the culture of the people around Israel. Slavery was common in every culture, as was murder…

I do understand the culture. The Old Testament is exactly what you'd expect people of a barbaric culture (rather than an omniscient and loving God) to write.

One thing to note about Hebrew slaves. Their slavery was temporary…

And non-Hebrew slaves were property for eternity, them and their progeny. Slaves could also be beaten without penalty so long as they didn't die within a day or two.

Women were not degraded in the bible, actually they had rights.

They had fewer rights than men. They were degraded.

Question.Everything · Sep 20, 2011

Faulty said:
Sounds like today's news headlines. Sin has always produced the same garbage over and over again.

So the Bible is supposed to be a tabloid?

I thought it was supposed to be a book teaching us how to live, not a book explaining what went on in Bronze Age Israel. We have history books for that.

What it reveals is a nature completely opposite of the God in the NT; Jesus. OT God says "Rawr see my power feel my wrath, I'll cast plagues upon you, flood you, exterminate you, order you to be sentenced to death. Fear me and love me at the same time, broken sinners."...NT God says "Have peace and love others around you, do them no harm. I am peaceful and merciful."

It seems we have two completely different Gods here, unless we're still running with the analogy that this is two sides of the same coin or in other words: two-faced. How is it a positive thing that God is two-faced? That's why Two-Face is a villain in comic books (Batman), you can't trust somebody with two completely different sides.

elopez · Sep 20, 2011

Question.Everything said:
It seems we have two completely different Gods here, unless we're still running with the analogy that this is two sides of the same coin or in other words: two-faced. How is it a positive thing that God is two-faced? That's why Two-Face is a villain in comic books (Batman), you can't trust somebody with two completely different sides.

There are not two different Gods, just two different circumstances. Refer back to my comment that this is based on the misconception that God did not display love or compassion in the OT, or wrath and punishment in the NT. God is not just wrath and punishment, He is also love and compassion and so on. My point is we shouldn't expect God to just show one or two attributes if indeed He has various attributes.

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