okay.

[gracealone]

No, ive never said them out loud. but it's like i think bad words and cuss words so I will not say anything that is bad about the Holy Spirit, but then the word Spirit will slip into those thoughts and Ill feel bad. thats what i mean or ill start thinking about them like they were real (like what if that were really true about Him) get me now? then i feel bad...

Seriously?! This is absolutely no big deal. Very common with OCD. It's just your OCD latching onto everything and anything it can to get you to obsess over whether you've lost your salvation or not. It only feels like a big deal and it's very hard to ignore those feelings.
It's rather like me telling you that a fire alarm is going to go off in your house at night while you're in bed and it's going to make you feel as if there might be a fire. Then I'd tell you that you'll just have to trust me that there really isn't a fire but that you won't be allowed to look around the house to prove that or to check and see that there really isn't one. Then I'd tell you that you're going to have to just ignore that alarm and go back to sleep. You'd lay there listening to the alarm and wondering, "what if she's wrong and this is a real fire?" You might shut your door, put ear plugs in and put a pillow over your head but you'd still hear the alarm even though you've tried to muffle it. How hard would that be? Would you feel compelled to check?
Well that's just how hard it is to ignore the alarms that go off in your head in reaction to the spikes of your OCD. But doing so eventually teaches the brain that the spikes are meaningless and the alarm is a false one. The fear response will grow weaker and weaker over time. In essence the batteries which power it will die out.
Do you understand the reasoning behind this analogy?
Mitzi

 

[RobertZ]

Seriously?! This is absolutely no big deal. Very common with OCD. It's just your OCD latching onto everything and anything it can to get you to obsess over whether you've lost your salvation or not. It only feels like a big deal and it's very hard to ignore those feelings.
It's rather like me telling you that a fire alarm is going to go off in your house at night while you're in bed and it's going to make you feel as if there might be a fire. Then I'd tell you that you'll just have to trust me that there really isn't a fire but that you won't be allowed to look around the house to prove that or to check and see that there really isn't one. Then I'd tell you that you're going to have to just ignore that alarm and go back to sleep. You'd lay there listening to the alarm and wondering, "what if she's wrong and this is a real fire?" You might shut your door, put ear plugs in and put a pillow over your head but you'd still hear the alarm even though you've tried to muffle it. How hard would that be? Would you feel compelled to check?
Well that's just how hard it is to ignore the alarms that go off in your head in reaction to the spikes of your OCD. But doing so eventually teaches the brain that the spikes are meaningless and the alarm is a false one. The fear response will grow weaker and weaker over time. In essence the batteries which power it will die out.
Do you understand the reasoning behind this analogy?
Mitzi

Great post Mitzi, makes perfect sense to me. I remember when I was around 12yrs old my obsession with light switches being on or off nearly destroyed me. Somehow I just started to ignore these stupid compulsions and the obsession eventually went away.

Now later in my 36yrs on this earth my OCD has latched onto the security of my salvation, this is the way OCD works. You defeat one area and it latches onto something else, I will say that I would rather it latch onto anything else besides my salvation because I consider the eternal state of my soul to be the most important thing in my life.

 

[kaykay9.0]

Great post Mitzi, makes perfect sense to me. I remember when I was around 12yrs old my obsession with light switches being on or off nearly destroyed me. Somehow I just started to ignore these stupid compulsions and the obsession eventually went away.

Now later in my 36yrs on this earth my OCD has latched onto the security of my salvation, this is the way OCD works. You defeat one area and it latches onto something else, I will say that I would rather it latch onto anything else besides my salvation because I consider the eternal state of my soul to be the most important thing in my life.

Hi, RobertZ
Glad this makes sense to you. My counselor (who is a professional counselor but also a devout Christian lady) told me that in her experience Christians with OCD may have had other obsessions such as handwashing, locking, whatever but they usually transfer them to spiritual issues such as salvation, sin etc when they become a Christian because now that is what is most important to them, as you said.
Caty,
I would just repeat to you that OCD will always try to make us feel ours is a "special case" when it is NOT. When you start feeling like your situatiton is different, remember what I said here.

 

[RobertZ]

Hi, RobertZ
Glad this makes sense to you. My counselor (who is a professional counselor but also a devout Christian lady) told me that in her experience Christians with OCD may have had other obsessions such as handwashing, locking, whatever but they usually transfer them to spiritual issues such as salvation, sin etc when they become a Christian because now that is what is most important to them, as you said.
Caty,
I would just repeat to you that OCD will always try to make us feel ours is a "special case" when it is NOT. When you start feeling like your situatiton is different, remember what I said here.

Thanks Kaykay, im trying hard to listen to all the people who are trying to help me. 1yr and 500 pastors later telling me that I didnt wait to long is finally starting to sink in, lol!

I cant find a single person who agree's with what I was saying because everyone says as long as their is concern about your soul then God's Holy Spirit is still dealing with you. People who have crossed the line love their sin and hate God with all their heart and have no desire whatsoever to be reconciled to him.


I do also believe Kaykay that my life style probably did open a door to some satanic activity so I could probably have been dealing with oppression on top of my OCD which would make it 5 times worse.


Caty, you have not committed this sin, if you only knew how bad off I was about a year ago compared to how I am now you would be amazed and you would see hope in yourself. Keep knocking and keep seeking and God will reveal himself to you, sometimes God hides from us to get us to seek after him. If he made it easy for us all of the time none of us would ever seek him.

 

[Caty]

thanks guys, i feel pretty bad today--but you have given me hope!

 

[gracealone]

Great post Mitzi, makes perfect sense to me. I remember when I was around 12yrs old my obsession with light switches being on or off nearly destroyed me. Somehow I just started to ignore these stupid compulsions and the obsession eventually went away.

Now later in my 36yrs on this earth my OCD has latched onto the security of my salvation, this is the way OCD works. You defeat one area and it latches onto something else, I will say that I would rather it latch onto anything else besides my salvation because I consider the eternal state of my soul to be the most important thing in my life.

Hey Robert,You are so right! If you have OCD and a deep relationship with God it will, sooner or later latch on to that. It's the most intense terror that it can stir up in us. I remember wishing I could just go back to my other OCD obsessions instead of living through the nightmare of OCD attacking my relationship with Christ. Sheer torture!God Bless,Mitzi

 

[TotallyDependingOnJesus]

Robert and Mitzi, I've noticed that OCD tends to attach to the people you love the most and especially to our relationship with Jesus too. I hate that it does that.

 

[Caty]

i keep having these thoughts that are like...if i read something or go somewhere or say something its like that it will send me to Hell, but the thoughts are like, "God take me to Hell if I read that." or like I'm making a "pact" that if I read that He has to take me to Hell. Or If I finish my sentance (& thats kinda hard when you are talking to someone and that thought pops into your head about "if I finish this sentace, take me to Hell." Or since I love to read that when I really want to read a book (& its not like I read anything dirty--I read autobiographies and historical stuff) that your own voice says "if I read that take me to Hell." so are you sure thats ocd or am I really saying this stuff...

 

[gracealone]

Hi Caty,
When OCD is severe it can take nearly anything we do or think or feel and turn it into a theme of doubt that attaches itself to our obsessional theme. Every move we make, or step we take is turned into - "if I do this or say that or think that it means that the fear/doubt might be true." Or vice versa, "if I don't do this, or think this, or say this, it means that the fear/doubt might be true."
It's all OCD. (reassurance - not good for you)
But my providing that reassurance for you will not make it go away. My telling you that it's OCD only gives validity to your questions and makes them seem all the more important. It highlights them in your brain as having tremendous weight and significance. This is why all the reassuring statements and arguments against your OCD thoughts that have been given to you by the caring/loving individuals on this forum haven't diminished the fear. The food that our OCD likes to eat comes from the continual checking and reassurance gathering that we do. We have to force ourselves to stop feeding it. I still have OCD thoughts that pop into my head, but I've learned through lots of practice how to react to them through the use of exposure & response prevention therapy which teaches me to view them as invalid and not to attend to them in any way. The moment I start heading down the path of "checking to make sure my faith is still locked" (quote: MarcB) the OCD grows larger and more threatening. When it feels like that it's very difficult, to put it mildly to resist the compulsion to check - just one more time.
Love you!
Mitzi

i keep having these thoughts that are like...if i read something or go somewhere or say something its like that it will send me to Hell, but the thoughts are like, "God take me to Hell if I read that." or like I'm making a "pact" that if I read that He has to take me to Hell. Or If I finish my sentance (& thats kinda hard when you are talking to someone and that thought pops into your head about "if I finish this sentace, take me to Hell." Or since I love to read that when I really want to read a book (& its not like I read anything dirty--I read autobiographies and historical stuff) that your own voice says "if I read that take me to Hell." so are you sure thats ocd or am I really saying this stuff...

 

[kaykay9.0]

Mitzi,
Good post.I agree with you, but let me ask your advice about one thing~ I think this is OCD too. I have worked through a lot of issues and I know what you are saying about not "feeding" the OCD etc. What I seem to still struggle with a lot is issues that don't involve salvation but maybe another spiritual issue. What should we do if we're not sure it's OCD? I guess the fear with me at that point is that I will mistakenly label something as OCD that the Lord is really trying to deal with me about? I mean, even with us, not EVERYTHING is OCD, ya know? I'm afraid I'll "miss" something the Lord is saying by labeling it OCD and NOT "attending" to it. This is where I still struggle. Sometimes I will just pray and ask the Lord to help me not "miss" anything by labeling it OCD> Somehow this doesn't seem sufficient. Any advice?

kk

Caty, sorry if this is "hijacking" this thread. Maybe I should have started another one, but it does involve the way we "handle" our OCD thoughts. So it does have some relevance here, I think.

 

[gracealone]

Hi KayKay,
I know what you mean. (Sadly)
What's really hard about this is that I often have to go down that path of questioning for a bit until I recognize that it's OCD. That's not fun. But I do find out, in a rather short period of time of walking down that path whether or not it's OCD.
If the answers suffice, set me straight and I can let go of the questions and move forward then the question was legitimate. If on the other hand, the answers don't suffice and I need more and more proof or certainty and the harder I try to get it the worse I feel - ever increasing anxiety and guilt - then I have to "run the risk" and label the doubt/question as an OCD theme.
Interestingly enough, every time I think it might be OCD it ends up being OCD.
A little illustration of how this works happened when I was standing in this long line to get a flu shot yesterday. I waited for nearly two hours!! During that time I had way too much time to obsess about getting the shot. So here's what happened.
a. spike #1"What if it makes me get sick or gives me the flu? b. spike #2 What if I have a severe allergic reaction to it and die?"
Was there room for uncertainty in regard to these questions? Most definitely yes.
So I began the classic OCD mental debate in regard to them.
a. compulsion #1 "You've had these shots before and never got the flu from them before. True, but maybe this time you will. Why this time? I don't know - but maybe you will there's a first time for everything. etc. etc." b. compulsion #2 "Nonsense, you've never been allergic to flu shots before. Yes, but maybe they put something different in this one and you'll be allergic to that. That might be true, but even if I am allergic that doesn't mean it will kill me. How do you know it won't kill you? etc. etc."
So after traveling down that path for a bit I noticed that my anxiety level was increasing tremendously. I began to get hot and flushed and I started to feel as if I might have to leave, might have a panic attack etc.
Then I decided that I was having an OCD fit. So I treated it with exposure.
a. exposure exercise #1"Oh well... I really need to get this stupid shot so... oh.. well... in a couple of days I'll be bed ridden with the worse case of the flu I've ever had. I'll be puking and barely able to breathe... sigh... just guess I'm going to have to accept that possibility and run the risk. No sense fighting about it." I need to pick up some cat food on the way home.
b. exposure #2 "I probably will have a major allergic reaction to it. Maybe even go into shock. I have an epi -pen in my purse, might have to use it, that is if I don't pass out first. The ambulance will have to come. My lips will swell up like cucumbers. I'll make the local news ....oh well... nothing I can do about that... I'll just have to take the shot and run the risk.
Wonder what we'll eat for dinner tonight.
The compulsive activity made me feel worse, but the exposure exercises released me from the battle and made me feel better. I still had to go down the path a little ways to find this out. But when you've been on that road a lot of times you recognize it as an OCD path because it's all too familiar.
Sorry for the novel but sometimes I think it helps to give little illustrations.
Love you!
Mitzi

Mitzi,
I agree with you, but let me your advice about one thing~ I think this is OCD too. I have worked through a lot of issues and I know what you are saying about not "feeding" the OCD etc. What I seem to still struggle with a lot is issues that don't involve salvation but maybe another spiritual issue. What should be do if we're not sure it's OCD? I guess the fear with me at that point is that I will mistakenly label something as OCD that the Lord is really trying to deal with me about? I mean, even with us, not EVERYTHING is OCD, ya know? I'm afraid I'll "miss" something the Lord is saying by labeling it OCD. This is where I still struggle. Any advice?

kk

 

[kaykay9.0]

Thanks for your input, Mitzi and personal story. I think I probably get hung up at the "run the risk"
(that it's indeed OCD) part...which of course is part and parcel of OCD! (OCD does NOT like risk!)

 

[Caty]

No, KayKay don't worry about it, this thread is open to anyone who needs help!!

See I tried to just brush off the thoughts and finish my sentance or read the book, or watch the tv show (& i try to think of it as okay because i dont read or watch anythig dirty) but then my thoughts went to, "well then you dont care about God"

 

[Caty]

So, do you think that it will be okay---I mean I really want to start reading again & finishing my sentances & other stuff? What if I am missing something?

 

[kaykay9.0]

So, do you think that it will be okay---I mean I really want to start reading again & finishing my sentances & other stuff? What if I am missing something?

In my experience, back when I was young and had these types of OCD probs, like intrusive thoughts, the best way to get rid of them was to try to pay as little attention to them as possible. If it helps, I suggest saying ONE time only. " Lord, you know I don't want these thoughts and if they come, I tell you now that they mean nothing to me." (something along this line) THEN and this is KEY~~ be done with it! Even saying that is a little concession to the OCD but it may be a needed one for where you are. The Lord already knows you don't want this thoughts. This is primarily for your own comfort level so you can do it. If the thoughts come, they come. If they don't, they don't. Try not to respond either way. Just go about your reading or whatever. It likely won't happen immediately, but in time, they will lessen and eventually cease if you can truly teach yourself to pay them no mind. In other words, the way up is down here. Paying attention to the thoughts reinforces them just like Mitzi is trying to tell you. (I know it's hard to disregard them at first, but remind yourself you are disregarding them NOT because you don't care about God, but in fact, because you DO and you want the surest and quickest way to get rid of such thoughts.)

 

[Caty]

I just thinking tonight that if i just didnt listen to my thoughts i would be SO much happier, if i finished my sentances or if i read my books & stuff and i wouldnt be so scared of God but then there is always a doubt that, "well dont listen & you'll go to Hell." but Im gonna try not to listen and just go on.

 

[gracealone]

Right on - Right on Sister!!!
Mitzi

In my experience, back when I was young and had these types of OCD probs, like intrusive thoughts, the best way to get rid of them was to try to pay as little attention to them as possible. If it helps, I suggest saying ONE time only. " Lord, you know I don't want these thoughts and if they come, I tell you now that they mean nothing to me." (something along this line) THEN and this is KEY~~ be done with it! Even saying that is a little concession to the OCD but it may be a needed one for where you are. The Lord already knows you don't want this thoughts. This is primarily for your own comfort level so you can do it. If the thoughts come, they come. If they don't, they don't. Try not to respond either way. Just go about your reading or whatever. It likely won't happen immediately, but in time, they will lessen and eventually cease if you can truly teach yourself to pay them no mind. In other words, the way up is down here. Paying attention to the thoughts reinforces them just like Mitzi is trying to tell you. (I know it's hard to disregard them at first, but remind yourself you are disregarding them NOT because you don't care about God, but in fact, because you DO and you want the surest and quickest way to get rid of such thoughts.)

 

[gracealone]

GREAT Caty that's just Great!
Now you're going to be practicing how to really kick the OCD to the curb. This is exactly what you need to do. Don't expect OCD to cooperate with your decision, but keep telling it, "whatever - I'm not listening to your ridiculous threats any more." You're going to have to tell it where to get off over and over and just press on with living, but with persistence, practice and patience you can and will do it.
Brave Girl!!! I'm so proud of you!
Love,
Mitzi

I just thinking tonight that if i just didnt listen to my thoughts i would be SO much happier, if i finished my sentances or if i read my books & stuff and i wouldnt be so scared of God but then there is always a doubt that, "well dont listen & you'll go to Hell." but Im gonna try not to listen and just go on.

 

[RobertZ]

GREAT Caty that's just Great!
Now you're going to be practicing how to really kick the OCD to the curb. This is exactly what you need to do. Don't expect OCD to cooperate with your decision, but keep telling it, "whatever - I'm not listening to your ridiculous threats any more." You're going to have to tell it where to get off over and over and just press on with living, but with persistence, practice and patience you can and will do it.
Brave Girl!!! I'm so proud of you!
Love,
Mitzi

I agree with this method. The less I pay attention to my OCD questioning my salvation the better my days are. When I let my OCD get the best of me my days are horrible and are filled with doubt.

Also I have noticed that the less I allow my brain to get cluttered with OCD thoughts the more clearly I can think and when I am able to do this I can see clearly that I was truly under Holy Spirit conviction the day that I got saved and that my salvation was real.

There is no way that I kicked 10+yrs of hardcore pornography addiction over night other than the grace of God intervening in my life. I owe it all to Jesus who has set me free from the power of sin.

I can bodly claim this because I can recall all of the times that I tried to break porn on my own and failed miserably. There is something inside of me now that will not allow me to look at it any longer, if I even think about looking at it I can feel something in me grieving over the thoughts. I would have to think that its the Holy Spirit of God living inside of me who is able to keep me from stumbling or falling permanently back into sin.

 

[John637]

Amen bro. Robert! Caty, God Bless you sister.