Okay, since you think God can lie, tell me ... Can Satan commit righteous deeds?

[JimB]

Pete, we found out what we need to know.

People want to believe that God does evil, and Satan does good. Their minds are made up; don't confuse them with the Scripture. So, now that we know where they stand, it explains a lot about what they believe. Let's just leave it at that instead of trying to argue with them.

Well QC, if you don’t believe that "all" means all in Matthew 19.26 I guess your mind is made up that Matthew 19.26 does not mean what it says after all, because apparently there is something it is not possible for God to do.


I would sure like to hear how you reconcile Matt, 19.26 and Luke 1.37 ...

With God all things are possible.

For with God nothing will be impossible.​

... with your now preferred scripture, Hebrews 6.18 ...

That by two immutable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie ….​

(This should be interesting.)

~Jim

Wise sayings are not always remembered but a kind word is never forgotten.​

 

[franky67]

I thought WOF people believed that “with God all things are possible” (Matt. 19.26) and that "all" always means all. At least that’s what I’ve been told over and over again in this forum. Now suddenly, all no longer means all. Now, it is not possible for God to lie.

Personally, for the record, I believe God can do anything He wants to do.

~Jim

Wise sayings are not always remembered but a kind word is never forgotten.​

The context of the verses is how difficult for a rich man to be saved, and Jesus is speaking of God's ability to save even a rich man. So All good things are possible with God.

 

[DreamerOfDreams]

More God's nature, Devil's nature..

John 8:37-44
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

[JimB]

The context of the verses is how difficult for a rich man to be saved, and Jesus is speaking of God's ability to save even a rich man. So All good things are possible with God.

Oh, I see. Jesus actually meant to say, “With God nearly all things are possible.” All "good" things are possible. (I just wonder why He failed to say "good" things? )

Context is a valid interpretative tool, isn't it, except, of course, when it can be used against our pet beliefs.http://www.baylor.edu/~Greg_Garrett/writepage.htm

~Jim

Wise sayings are not always remembered but a kind word is never forgotten.​

 

[Mattacious]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh-K.

I've seen what I came to see, so I shall no longer be participating in this topic. My prediction [to myself] was absolutely CORRECT, basically, that since people on this forum like to ascribe works of evil to God, I figured that they would conversely, and in the same manner, ascribe works of goodness or righteousness to Satan.

And a couple of you have already done it. You confirmed my suspicion, thank you very much.

Just one more thing, though, before I hit the Submit Reply button ...



The question was this:

Can Satan commit righteous deeds?

That's not a hard question. It's not a trick. It's not a trap. There's no double entendre. Nobody's trying to make a point. You won't find Waldo in the question. There's no hidden agenda. You ain't gotta call Miss Cleo. You don't need Holmes OR Watson. You don't have to hold up the Purple Carbuncle into the Green Laser. You don't have to take the BLUE pill or the RED pill. No need to dust for fingerprints. There's not some secret Decoder Ring / Bible Code mystery to solve. It's not freakin Colonel Mustard in the kitchen with the lead pipe.

It's very plain ... very simple ... very straightforward ... very easy.

"Can Satan commit righteous deeds?"

The question is not multiple choice.
It's not fill-in-the-blank.
It's not an essay.
It's not matching.
It's not Short Answer.
It's not true / false.

It's COMPLETELY open-book, and it's COMPLETELY "yes, or no".

I hope I'm a little more clear now, because obviously the question WASN'T.

Did you read my response before about how Satan cannot do righteous deeds?

 

[Mattacious]

More God's nature, Devil's nature..

John 8:37-44
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Just to clarify that the above are natures of the devil. If you read the scriptures before hand and the current scriptures you will see that Jesus is speaking to the unbeleivers telling them they do the deeds of their father (the devil). The father of the unbelievers is the devil, therefore when Jesus says father he is referring to the devil in this instance / context.

 

[Ajax 777]

This is a pointless debate. It is absolutely pointless.

Some of you REALLY need to repent. Why are you entertaining such perveted and ridiculous questions? Why do you view God as greater if He can disown Himself? There's ANOTHER thing the Bible says He cannot do, Jim.

So do you now view God as less able simply because there is no sin in Him? Do you prefer a God who can "break the rules, since He made 'em?"

People, why are we even HAVING such a discourse as this?

You have to take ALL Scripture with the same weight. The SAME Bible that says ALL things are possible for God ALSO says He cannot tell a lie. It also says that He calls into existence the things which do not exist as though they did....so you see, if God says it, THEN IT IS TRUE.

To tell a lie is nothing. Nothing at all. Anyone who speaks can do it, and it doesn't change a SINGLE FREAKIN' THING about the truth. So, the statements "God can do all things" and "God cannot lie" ACTUALLY AGREE.

So there.

 

[franky67]

Oh, I see. Jesus actually meant to say, “With God nearly all things are possible.” All "good" things are possible. (I just wonder why He failed to say "good" things? )

Context is a valid interpretative tool, isn't it, except, of course, when it can be used against our pet beliefs.http://www.baylor.edu/~Greg_Garrett/writepage.htm

~Jim

Wise sayings are not always remembered but a kind word is never forgotten.​

Jim, we both believe God will not lie, whether or not He can is beside the point.

Jesus cleared all this up when simply said good trees don't produce bad fruit, and thorn trees don't produce figs. How clear and simple is that ?

 

[Mattacious]

I thought WOF people believed that “with God all things are possible” (Matt. 19.26) and that "all" always means all. At least that’s what I’ve been told over and over again in this forum. Now suddenly, all no longer means all. Now, it is not possible for God to lie.

Personally, for the record, I believe God can do anything He wants to do.

~Jim

Wise sayings are not always remembered but a kind word is never forgotten.​

You have taken this out of context. The context it was written in was where Jesus was saying to a young man that a rich person cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. And the young man was sad. Then the disciples said 'then who can be saved'. Then in context he replied, "with man this is impossible but with God all things are possible".


In context it makes perfect sense, but out of context you can exceed the meaning that it was intended to give.

 

[tonysma]

This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: "God is light; in him there is no darkness at all...1 JOHN 1:5 How or why satan has the ability to lie and God doesn't...really isn't important...Is satan deceiving you now? I have wondered myself, how can we humans come from God..He created us..why are we so evil....However, I do understand...

 

[DreamerOfDreams]

There are those who became Christians who then fell back into mere theism. That is they choose to define God by the omni factors rather than the revelation of the Father Jesus showed us. It is more important to say "God can do anything" than it is to say "Jesus is the logos of God and the perfect image of the Father." It is more important to say "God is in control of everything (including evil)" than to say "Jesus is the exact image of the Father."

If your ultimate and bottom line answer of faith is "God is too big to understand and we could never comprehend the plans and purposes of God" then let me introduce you to Jesus. He will clear all that up for you!!!!

Dods

 

[JimB]

Jim, we both believe God will not lie, whether or not He can is beside the point.

Jesus cleared all this up when simply said good trees don't produce bad fruit, and thorn trees don't produce figs. How clear and simple is that ?

You are right. But I believe God could lie if He wanted to but I also believe it is against His nature to lie and therefore I have faith/trust that He will never lie nor choose to lie. In that respect, I believe it is “impossible” (synonyms include implausible, unthinkable, unimaginable, preposterous, etc) in the sense that it is unimaginable that God could ever lie – not impossible for Him (because with God all things are possible), but unimaginable for us because of who He is. http://www.baylor.edu/~Greg_Garrett/writepage.htm

~Jim

Wise sayings are not always remembered but a kind word is never forgotten.​

 

[Ajax 777]

Edited. I misunderstood what was being said. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

Dids...when did you become "Dods?"

 

[DreamerOfDreams]

Edited. I misunderstood what was being said. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

Dids...when did you become "Dods?"

Couple days ago.
I finally saved up enough blesses to transmogrify into DODS.

In about 15 weeks it will happen again!!!

 

[Beauty4Ashes]

Thing is, God created satan. Satan did not create God.

Think about it. I'm not going to elaborate into detail as I prefer not to get into a debate.

B4A

 

[probinson]

But, since you are apparently a greater champion of the Word than I am, you will need to explain to me if “all” means all in Matthew 19.26 ~ “With God all things are possible” ~ or does it now mean “almost all”?

I never claimed to be a greater champion of the Word than you. I simply claim to understand what the word IMPOSSIBLE means, without needing to run to the thesarus to find words that are similar (but NOT the same).

Does IMPOSSIBLE mean IMPOSSIBLE? You answer me, and then I'll answer you.

 

[charityagape]

But, since you are apparently a greater champion of the Word than I am, you will need to explain to me if “all” means all in Matthew 19.26 ~ “With God all things are possible” ~ or does it now mean “almost all”?

~Jim

Wise sayings are not always remembered but a kind word is never forgotten.​

Matthew 19

Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, 19honor your father and mother,'[d] and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'[e]"
20"All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?"
21Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
22When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.
23Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
25When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?"
26Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."


numbers 23

8 How can I curse
those whom God has not cursed?
How can I denounce
those whom the LORD has not denounced?
9 From the rocky peaks I see them,
from the heights I view them.
I see a people who live apart
and do not consider themselves one of the nations.
10 Who can count the dust of Jacob
or number the fourth part of Israel?
Let me die the death of the righteous,
and may my end be like theirs!"
11 Balak said to Balaam, "What have you done to me? I brought you to curse my enemies, but you have done nothing but bless them!"
12 He answered, "Must I not speak what the LORD puts in my mouth?"
Balaam's Second Oracle

13 Then Balak said to him, "Come with me to another place where you can see them; you will see only a part but not all of them. And from there, curse them for me." 14 So he took him to the field of Zophim on the top of Pisgah, and there he built seven altars and offered a bull and a ram on each altar. 15 Balaam said to Balak, "Stay here beside your offering while I meet with him over there."
16 The LORD met with Balaam and put a message in his mouth and said, "Go back to Balak and give him this message."
17 So he went to him and found him standing beside his offering, with the princes of Moab. Balak asked him, "What did the LORD say?"
18 Then he uttered his oracle:
"Arise, Balak, and listen;
hear me, son of Zippor.
19 God is not a man, that he should lie,
nor a son of man, that he should change his mind.
Does he speak and then not act?
Does he promise and not fulfill?
20 I have received a command to bless;
he has blessed, and I cannot change it.


It ALL seems pretty clear.

 

[Svt4Him]

The question was this:

Can Satan commit righteous deeds?

That's not a hard question. It's not a trick. It's not a trap. There's no double entendre. Nobody's trying to make a point. You won't find Waldo in the question. There's no hidden agenda. You ain't gotta call Miss Cleo. You don't need Holmes OR Watson. You don't have to hold up the Purple Carbuncle into the Green Laser. You don't have to take the BLUE pill or the RED pill. No need to dust for fingerprints. There's not some secret Decoder Ring / Bible Code mystery to solve. It's not freakin Colonel Mustard in the kitchen with the lead pipe.

It's very plain ... very simple ... very straightforward ... very easy.

"Can Satan commit righteous deeds?"

The question is not multiple choice.
It's not fill-in-the-blank.
It's not an essay.
It's not matching.
It's not Short Answer.
It's not true / false.

It's COMPLETELY open-book, and it's COMPLETELY "yes, or no".

I hope I'm a little more clear now, because obviously the question WASN'T.

Hope you feel better after all that, now can you define a righteous act? If you would like to dance around it a bit, feel free, but my question was fairly straight forward as well, yet in all this I don't see an answer.

But, since you are apparently a greater champion of the Word than I am

Who would of expected something like this from someone who is so quick to point out the personal attacks they see in others. Weird.

 

[Questioning Christian]

Hope you feel better after all that, now can you define a righteous act? If you would like to dance around it a bit, feel free, but my question was fairly straight forward as well, yet in all this I don't see an answer.

I think the phrase "righteous act" is fairly self-explanatory. That is, except for people who require a definition of the word "is".

 

[Svt4Him]

I think the phrase "righteous act" is fairly self-explanatory. That is, except for people who require a definition of the word "is".

Since you can't define it, I'll have to try. I didn't realize it was a tough quesion. Righteous acts can be defined as acts that are morally right. If someone is drowning, it is morally right to save them, and if you place your life on the line, is it righteous? Or is a righteous act an act that is divine in nature? People can have "righteous anger", or anger over something that is morally corrupt. Then it infers that a righteous act is something that is morally right, but then it begs the question that if something is done that is morally right for a morally wrong reason, is it still righteous? What if an act is done because it's required not because of any reason whatsoever, is it righteous? What if the wrong thing was done so the end would come out ok, is it an unrighteous act that brings about righteousness?

Perhaps now I see why you weren't able to answer my question.