Ohio Starting to fund the Building of Religious Schools

[comana]

One of the reasons that Ohio is starting to fund the BUILDING of
some religious schools, is that the public schools lack capacity.

The topic of a different curriculum in religious schools, is a different
topic than this one.

The public school K12 education has dropped many topics that formerly
were available (such as basic Moral Theory, as is required of any fair rule of law).
This is a different topic than some religious parents wanting to ADD topics to
a public school curriculum. Many religious parents are moving to religious schools,
because the students behave much better, there. But, good behavior used to be
expected in puclic schools.

I would criticize the curriculum of BOTH public schools, and many Christian
K12 schols, because they do not provide a broad exposure to great ideas,
and serious critical reaoning skills.

I don't think that this discussion is best seen with just the cutting plane of
religious versus secular K12 schools.

Ohio should look into why there are not enough seats for students in their local public schools and put forward a means to fund the growth of local schools instead of funding private schools.

Christian schools may have better behaved students but they also have the option to remove students who are a problem. Public schools are much more limited in options for dealing with problem students as they are required to accomodate local students while private schools can require a student meet and maintain behavioral and academic standards or be dismissed.

I don’t agree with the government funding local private schools that are permitted to discriminate as they choose.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

While I have definite issues with school voucher programs (I've done lengthy posts about their flaws, and how they failed miserably when states like Kansas and Arizona have tried them)

However, equating that to "the government is funding religious schools" isn't quite accurate within the context of how we typically view/discuss how government money is used once it changes hands from the government, to the individual recipient, and they then choose where to spend it.

School vouchers (which as I said, I don't agree with...I'm definitely not defending "school choice" here, I think it's a terrible system) going to an individual person, and then that individual chooses to put it toward a religious school is, in a practical sense, no different than if the government sends out a stimulus package of some other sort, and some people opt to donate some of that money to their church or buy a bible with it.

That's not the government giving the religious entity money, that's the government giving individuals money, and the individuals pursuing a religious endeavor/interest with it.


If someone gets a welfare or social security check in the mail, cashes it, and then proceeds to head to a religious book store and buy something with it, that wouldn't be "the government funding religion" would it?


At its core, this is a case where money that should be public, was made private. We can debate that all day long and talk about why that's not a great thing. However, what happens after that money is made private, is no longer the government doing anything.


"We had this 20k we that was supposed to be for the state education fund, but we gave it to Steve". What Steve does with that money isn't the government "doing anything" anymore. They should've kept it, but they didn't. That's the crux of the debate.

 

[RileyG]

Should this also be opened up to Islamic schools?

If religious freedom applies to ALL, why not? It’s a two way street.

 

[RileyG]

It will definitely be persecution if any other religion gets to make use of it.

Why not make Sikh schools, or Buddhist schools, or a Hindu schools et al.

Shouldn’t evermore have a voice and be represented in education?

 

[RocksInMyHead]

However, equating that to "the government is funding religious schools" isn't quite accurate within the context of how we typically view/discuss how government money is used once it changes hands from the government, to the individual recipient, and they then choose where to spend it.

While that may be true of voucher programs (though it is, at best, a smokescreen), that's not what's outlined in the OP article. Ohio passed a bill which has the state government is giving grants directly to private religious schools in order to improve their facilities (so they can accept more voucher students).

 

[dzheremi]

Typical "complain about how terrible the public option is while simultaneously starving it of the funds needed to make it less terrible" from the usual suspects. Must be a day ending in "y".

 

[iluvatar5150]

One of the reasons that Ohio is starting to fund the BUILDING of
some religious schools, is that the public schools lack capacity.

Unless you have some additional information that I don’t, that’s not what the OP article said (though it’s easy to misread it that way). What it said was that the private schools don’t have the capacity to accommodate the anticipated influx of voucher students:

The goal in providing the grants, according to the measure’s chief architect, Matt Huffman, is to increase the capacity of private schools in part so that they can sooner absorb more voucher students.

“The capacity issue is the next big issue on the horizon” for voucher efforts, Huffman, the Ohio Senate president and a Republican, told the Columbus Dispatch.

(I can’t get past the Dispatch’s paywall, so I’m relying on Propublica’s quote here.)

 

[bèlla]

While that may be true of voucher programs (though it is, at best, a smokescreen), that's not what's outlined in the OP article. Ohio passed a bill which has the state government is giving grants directly to private religious schools in order to improve their facilities (so they can accept more voucher students).

I would interpret that to include all schools within that demographic. Rightfully so.

~bella

 

[Desk trauma]

Why not make Sikh schools, or Buddhist schools, or a Hindu schools et al.

Nothing is stopping them.

Shouldn’t evermore have a voice and be represented in education?

Sure. Just don’t expect public funds to pay for them.

 

[Chesterton]

They are (hypothetically as my state does not have vouchers) giving my tax dollars to parents to spend on private schools. I pay taxes for funding public schools yet my children are grown and living elsewhere. Most families with school children are not paying enough tax dollars into the funding to cover the cost of their child’s education. So unless the vouchers are limited to the exact amount any given family pays into education funding, it is giving tax dollars paid from other families who do not have school age children. Tax dollars intended to fund public not private schools.

In other words, you pay taxes. Me too.

 

[comana]

In other words, you pay taxes. Me too.

Taxes for public education not private.

 

[Chesterton]

Taxes for public education not private.

What's the difference?

 

[comana]

What's the difference?

I would think the words public and private would make that obvious.

 

[RileyG]

Nothing is stopping them.


Sure. Just don’t expect public funds to pay for them.

Agreed. Same with Christian based schools, they don’t need public funds. It’s only fair.

 

[Chesterton]

I would think the words public and private would make that obvious.

I went to public school, maybe I'm stupid. Tell me the difference.

 

[comana]

I went to public school, maybe I'm stupid. Tell me the difference.

You’re an adult pick up a dictionary.

 

[Chesterton]

You’re an adult pick up a dictionary.

Okay, I did. It looks like - some people, under threat of violence, take my money from me and spend it how they want. That's public. Or, some people take my money from me and give it back to me and I spend it how I want. That's private. I prefer the latter.

 

[dzheremi]

Okay, I did. It looks like - some people, under threat of violence, take my money from me and spend it how they want. That's public. Or, some people take my money from me and give it back to me and I spend it how I want.

What the heck kind of dictionary are you reading?

 

[Chesterton]

What the heck kind of dictionary are you reading?

A private dictionary. I wrote it myself.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

While that may be true of voucher programs (though it is, at best, a smokescreen), that's not what's outlined in the OP article. Ohio passed a bill which has the state government is giving grants directly to private religious schools in order to improve their facilities (so they can accept more voucher students).

Are the bills directly aimed at anything religion specific, or is it more likened to when Churches (who operate certain public services for the common good) receive certain government money (like churches that operate food pantries and homeless shelters)

For instance, per Grants.gov

Academic Improvement and Teacher Quality Programs
Academic Improvement and Teacher Quality (AITQ) Programs administer several major formula and discretionary grant programs authorized by the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965, and reauthorized by the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001. These programs provide financial assistance to state and local educational agencies, institutions of higher education, community and faith-based organizations, and other entities. Funding supports activities designed to recruit and retain a high-quality teaching staff for America's schools, to strengthen the quality of elementary and secondary education, including through after-school programs, to test and disseminate information on new approaches for improving educational results, to improve literacy skills for children and students from birth through 12th grade, and to raise the educational achievement of at-risk students, such as Native Hawaiian and Alaska Native children and youth.



...and like I've noted multiple times, voucher programs aren't the answer. However, if the public school systems aren't going to have their "feet held to the fire" a bit and come up with a detailed plan for how they're going to improve things, then despite the fact that the money should remain public, if the public schools aren't going to produce better results with it, I'd prefer to see that money set aside in a lockbox and earmarked for Public School spending, once they provide a plan for how they're going to use it to improve conditions and results.