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Oh when the saints......!

Albion

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Please explain this to me.
Well, people who pray to the saints, who think that the saints can dispense spiritual favors on their own, and who engage in exaggerated rituals in devotion to the saints usually justify all of that as "veneration," even if it verges upon worship.

You asked about the perspective of each of us here, and I'm one of those who approves of honoring the memory of the faithful departed, but not worship of them or the rest of what others do.
 
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Paul4JC

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A) Can you quote please...

B) But some seem to be venerated as being special... could you also talk about that.
Believers are made saints, or holy ones, In Christ. It is a position given by God to all believers. It is frequently used in the NT, when mentioning believers. Here are just a few of a long list.
Acts 9:13 ESV
answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to your saints at Jerusalem.
Acts 9:32 ESV
healing of Aeneas Now as Peter went here and there among them all, he came down also to the saints who lived at Lydda.

Acts 9:41 ESV
And he gave her his hand and raised her up. Then, calling the saints and widows, he presented her alive.

Rom 1:7 ESV
To all those in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Rom 8:27 ESV
searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

Rom 12:13 ESV
Contribute to the needs of the saints and seek to show hospitality.

Rom 15:25 ESV
At present, however, I am going to Jerusalem bringing aid to the saints.

2 Cor 1:1 ESV
will of God, and Timothy our brother, To the church of God that is at Corinth, with all the saints who are in the whole of Achaia:

As you may notice some Christians don't always live up to this title. Yet others do a better job. But salvation is in Christ Jesus from first to last. You also are more than welcome into the kingdom of God through faith in Christ.

As you know some groups venerate "saints" but this is not biblical.

In the Book of Acts chapter 14 the people tried to worship Paul and Barnabus, but the told them not to do this.

8 In Lystra there sat a man who was lame. He had been that way from birth and had never walked. 9 He listened to Paul as he was speaking. Paul looked directly at him, saw that he had faith to be healed 10 and called out, “Stand up on your feet!” At that, the man jumped up and began to walk.

11 When the crowd saw what Paul had done, they shouted in the Lycaonian language, “The gods have come down to us in human form!” 12Barnabas they called Zeus, and Paul they called Hermes because he was the chief speaker. 13 The priest of Zeus, whose temple was just outside the city, brought bulls and wreaths to the city gates because he and the crowd wanted to offer sacrifices to them.

14 But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of this, they tore their clothes and rushed out into the crowd, shouting: 15 “Friends, why are you doing this? We too are only human, like you. We are bringing you good news, telling you to turn from these worthless things to the living God, who made the heavens and the earth and the sea and everything in them. 16 In the past, he let all nations go their own way. 17 Yet he has not left himself without testimony: He has shown kindness by giving you rain from heaven and crops in their seasons; he provides you with plenty of food and fills your hearts with joy.” 18 Even with these words, they had difficulty keeping the crowd from sacrificing to them.
 
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ViaCrucis

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What is your relationship with Christian saints? How should saints be regarded? Venerated? Worshipped? Prayed to?
Can they help you?
Have you had any communication or mystical experiences with a saint? Would you trust that?
Protestants seem to be a bit less into venerating saints than Roman Catholics or Eastern Catholics... Or maybe I'm getting it wrong?
TIA

In Lutheranism we honor the saints by looking to their example, putting our faith in Christ, and living our lives in the hope and confidence of God's grace. We acknowledge that the saints do indeed pray for us, even as the holy angels do. Though we do not invoke them or petition them for their prayers like our Roman Catholic and Orthodox brothers and sisters do.

We venerate the saints, because they are worthy of respect and honor, even as (for example) we honor our own parents. As those who have gone on before us, and in whose presence we dwell within the Communion of Saints, we respect them, love them, and remember them; and we seek to observe and follow their example in our own lives.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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A) Can you quote please...

B) But some seem to be venerated as being special... could you also talk about that.

The New Testament describes God's people, both living and reposed, as ἁγίους (hagious), "holy ones". The term is not novel with the New Testament, as the Old Testament also describes God's people and servants as קְדֹושִׁים (qedoshim), "holy ones", which the LXX also translates as hagious. So the precedent is established long before the New Testament itself. God's people are holy, a people set apart for God's purposes.

So we read Acts 9:32 mentioning "the saints that are in Lydda", or St. Paul in Romans 15:25 saying he is going to serve the saints in Jerusalem. And in Psalm 16:3 "But to the saints that are in the earth".

As far as the veneration of the saints who have come before us, it's about respecting and remembering our spiritual forebearers.

You might be thinking about how certain individuals are often known as "Saint So-and-So" such as when I say St. Paul the Apostle, or St. Augustine of Hippo. This is simply a term of respect and honor, the same reason one might be described as "The venerable so-and-so". It is a recognition of their honor within Christian history. All God's people are saints, both those alive and those who have gone to be with the Lord. So just because someone isn't called "St. So-and-so" doesn't mean they aren't a saint. It's just an honorific that has been applied to those who have come before us, and whose memory we seek to retain.

Now, over the course of history, a process of "canonization" developed in the Western Church, and so to be formally recognized as a "Saint" in Roman Catholicism requires a rigorous process of study, certain criteria must be met. But this process of canonization in Catholicism isn't what makes someone a saint, it is only a formal process by which "sainthood" is acknowledged. It's basically, "Yeah, we checked the numbers, and it all adds up, this person should be honored as a saint by the Catholic Church". Other churches don't have this process, in the Orthodox Churches a person is recognized as a "saint" simply because their blessed memory continues among the Faithful themselves.

In Lutheranism we simply acknowledge and honor those who have come before us. We still use "St. So-and-so" as an honorific to those who have traditionally been so honored. It's not exclusive of course, as though if someone isn't called "St. So-and-so" they are less honored.

The TL;DR version is that there isn't a special class of "saints" in heaven apart from everyone else. It really just boils down to how many Christians have sought to honor the memory of our spiritual forebearers. And we do that by using the same language which the Bible itself uses often to speak of God's people.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Radagast

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Protestants seem to be a bit less into venerating saints than Roman Catholics or Eastern Catholics... Or maybe I'm getting it wrong?

All Christians (Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant) agree that the souls of the faithful go to heaven and are, at least imperfectly, in communion with God there (Luke 23:43, Revelation 6:9-10). Catholics (who believe in purgatory) believe that the souls of the average Christian may take some time to get there.

Most Christians (Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant) believe that notable Christians deserve a degree of honour for the work that they have done. This is often reflected in the creation of statues in various places. With Catholics and Orthodox, this degree of honour is substantially greater, and is called "veneration." Most Protestants would reject such veneration.

Also, Catholics believe that you can address prayers to the faithful who are in heaven and ask them to "speak to God on your behalf." Most Protestants would reject this practice.
 
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Radagast

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The New Testament describes God's people, both living and reposed, as ἁγίους (hagious), "holy ones". The term is not novel with the New Testament, as the Old Testament also describes God's people and servants as קְדֹושִׁים (qedoshim), "holy ones", which the LXX also translates as hagious. So the precedent is established long before the New Testament itself. God's people are holy, a people set apart for God's purposes.

So we read Acts 9:32 mentioning "the saints that are in Lydda", or St. Paul in Romans 15:25 saying he is going to serve the saints in Jerusalem. And in Psalm 16:3 "But to the saints that are in the earth".

And I might add that, in the famous song "Oh When the Saints go Marching in," the word "saints" refers to all God's people in this sense.

 
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2PhiloVoid

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What is your relationship with Christian saints? How should saints be regarded? Venerated? Worshipped? Prayed to?
Can they help you?
Have you had any communication or mystical experiences with a saint? Would you trust that?
Protestants seem to be a bit less into venerating saints than Roman Catholics or Eastern Catholics... Or maybe I'm getting it wrong?
TIA

My relationship with the Saints? Well, it's one of amiableness.......................of course!

But do I pray to those Saints whom have already passed when I can just go directly to the Father through the Seat of Christ by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit?

Not on your life! :dontcare: ....but it's funny, y'know, especially 'cuz my mother-in-law often suggests to me and my wife that we do so!
 
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