Oh NO!

[RachelZ]

The title sums it up really...I have thought something and it's like...OH NO!!!! OK, it goes something like this...if my ROCD is not ROCD and is in fact reality and my scrupulosity is not scrupulosity but is in fact reality and if repentance means to change ones mind then I need to change my mind about a whole lot of things that will leave me feeling like there's virtually nothing in my life that is not under God's wrath and judgement. I do not get how I can be joyful in the Lord in light of a lot of what the bible says about how He deals with sinners. How can I be sure of anything when I'm riddled with doubt and anxiety and a sense of most anything that is in my life needing to be repented of? How do I know that any reassurance I may get is not just nice ideas? I don't think God likes me. I wonder how I can have fallen so far from the person I used to be who was a full time Christian worker...to a person who doesn't do regular quiet times and feels such a burden of badness!

Sorry to moan on...pleae pray...thanks...Rachel

 

[keryakos]

praying for you Rachel ...and its not just all ocd but your not condemned either

 

[RachelZ]

Thanks for your prayers Keryakos.

 

[kaykay9.0]

The title sums it up really...I have thought something and it's like...OH NO!!!! OK, it goes something like this...if my ROCD is not ROCD and is in fact reality and my scrupulosity is not scrupulosity but is in fact reality and if repentance means to change ones mind then I need to change my mind about a whole lot of things that will leave me feeling like there's virtually nothing in my life that is not under God's wrath and judgement. I do not get how I can be joyful in the Lord in light of a lot of what the bible says about how He deals with sinners. How can I be sure of anything when I'm riddled with doubt and anxiety and a sense of most anything that is in my life needing to be repented of? How do I know that any reassurance I may get is not just nice ideas? I don't think God likes me. I wonder how I can have fallen so far from the person I used to be who was a full time Christian worker...to a person who doesn't do regular quiet times and feels such a burden of badness!

Sorry to moan on...pleae pray...thanks...Rachel

Will pray for you, but not quite sure what you are saying...Are you saying "what if I don't have OCD?" or what if there's no such thing as OCD? Well, all I can say is that as one who has struggled with OCD, been diagnosed with OCD, it appears to me, (as I've said before) that you struggle with OCD and pretty badly. (hope the mods don't get me for "diagnosing" here) But you have been told this also, have you not?

Now, if there's no such thing as OCD, ...well, then I guess we're all deceived here to some extent, but I don't think that's the case.

 

[RachelZ]

Thanks for your reply KayKay...i'm not sure myself exactly what I'm saying...I don't think I can say OCD doesn't exist but in my worse doubty times I guess even that comes under fire. But I guess the more consitent idea is that either I have it but certain big issues aren't OCD or I don't have it at all. I tend to lean more towards the former as some of my stuff is so classically OCD as to defy argument. But in light of other people's concerns I've just wondered well if we need to have a change of heart over our sin then with my ROCD I would have to genuinely repent of getting married and having a child and with my scrupulosity I would have to repent for nigh on most of what I do as a Christian. I don't know how to get to a place of true repentance for getting married and having a baby. I feel like that bloke in the bible who was sad when Jesus told him to sell all he had and give to the poor or something like that...cos he was very rich and couldn't do it. Thanks again...take care, Rachel

PS Yes I do have a diagnosis so no need to be censored for diagnosing!

 

[kaykay9.0]

I don't have much time to respond before work closes here, but again let me reiterate IF and I say IF your marriage was not what God would have preferred, there's nothing you need do about it at all now. Maybe you disagree with me, but God can work that to his glory and your good. (Romans 8:28) I would quote but I'm hurrying... But you may have married who he wanted anyway. He WAS a Christian after all.

this whole thinking you're in right now smacks of OCD. They are locking the doors on me. I'll post more at home later.

 

[RachelZ]

Thanks KayKay...it's so wierd you were still at work when I'm at the PC and it's just gone midnight and really I should be in my bed! LOL! Thanks for taking the toruble to reposnd when you didn't have much time...I guess my issue is that as has been posted elsewhere if salvation is dependent on true repentance then I'm stuffed unless I can regreat my choices. Does that make sense? Thanks again...hope you have a great weekend...Rachel

 

[keryakos]

Will pray for you, but not quite sure what you are saying...Are you saying "what if I don't have OCD?" or what if there's no such thing as OCD? Well, all I can say is that as one who has struggled with OCD, been diagnosed with OCD, it appears to me, (as I've said before) that you struggle with OCD and pretty badly. (hope the mods don't get me for "diagnosing" here) But you have been told this also, have you not?

Now, if there's no such thing as OCD, ...well, then I guess we're all deceived here to some extent, but I don't think that's the case.

OCD is real whatever you want to call it you could call it the polish fancy upside down cake disorder ..and it would still be what it is ...

We ALL know on this forum that it is real and you know it too my dear Rachel ..

But even if you doubt it ..stuff upper lip stand proud stand tall

and DO IT FOR ENGLAND

 

[kaykay9.0]

OCD is real whatever you want to call it you could call it the polish fancy upside down cake disorder ..and it would still be what it is ...

Yeah, I thought the same thing. That you can call it whatever you want, but I know personally I have dealt with obsession after obsession that most other Christians don't deal with. And I suspect the same for most on this forums.

It also occurred to me while I was driving home that the word repentance must have triggered something with you.

I only think repentance in respect to salvation means that one has a " change of mind" about following Jesus or committing our lives Him, nothing to do with "regretting our choices."

 

[annrobert]

Rachel,

I am sorry that you are suffering like this,I know how much it hurts.
Jesus wants us to be free ,Jesus says you shall know the Truth and the Truth shall make you free.
But works and legalism, and trying to be good enough to face Jesus in our own righteousness can never free us to stand in the freedom and liberty that Jesus wants for us.

However knowing that because we believe in Jesus
we are safe,
we are saved,
we are washed clean in His blood
We are hidden in Christ
God is not counting our sins against us
We have the righteousness of Christ

This is what gives us the freedom to come boldly to the throne of grace
this is the love that casts out fear
this is what lets us come to Jesus for rest and healing
Knowing we can trust Jesus as our Mighty Saviour and Lord
this gives us love and peace and joy
and the joy of the Lord is our strength
We can do nothing of ourselves and Jesus knows this
Jesus is our full provider,meeting all our needs
and Jesus promises if we come to Him we will not be cast out.
He understands our weaknesses and invites us to come.

Jesus tells us how to be saved.

30What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 33As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

When we believe in Jesus we are saved.
knowing we are safe in His hand and none shall snatch us out and we shall never perish,
This gives us love and peace and joy.
This joy of the Lord gives us strength.
We are sealed by the Holy Spirit til the day of redemption.
We need to renew our minds with the Truth of Jesus.

Rachel you believe in Jesus and you are saved.

 

[keryakos]

Yeah, I thought the same thing. That you can call it whatever you want, but I know personally I have dealt with obsession after obsession that most other Christians don't deal with. And I suspect the same for most on this forums.

I think you misread what i was saying ...What i am saying is is it doesn't matter what you call it it is a cluster of symptoms with the same nasty base ingredients of which we are all not sure of we put the label on it whether you want to call it OCD or as Ann Robert has talked about Religious Melancholy as it was known in the past ... whatever you want to call it it is very real and we are suffering with it . I don't doubt what you say regarding your experience which is atypical of this disease disorder , pain in the rectum or whatever else you want to say about it ...

By way of analogy .Santa Claus Visits Greek Children too ... Just not on the same night that he visits American Children . He is dressed differently speaks a different language brings varried gifts but Santa Claus and Greek Claus is the same old codger ..

 

[kaykay9.0]

Yeah, I thought the same thing. That you can call it whatever you want, but I know personally I have dealt with obsession after obsession that most other Christians don't deal with. And I suspect the same for most on this forums.

I think you misread what i was saying ...What i am saying is is it doesn't matter what you call it it is a cluster of symptoms with the same nasty base ingredients of which we are all not sure of we put the label on it whether you want to call it OCD or as Ann Robert has talked about Religious Melancholy as it was known in the past ... whatever you want to call it it is very real and we are suffering with it . I don't doubt what you say regarding your experience which is atypical of this disease disorder , pain in the rectum or whatever else you want to say about it ...

By way of analogy .Santa Claus Visits Greek Children too ... Just not on the same night that he visits American Children . He is dressed differently speaks a different language brings varried gifts but Santa Claus and Greek Claus is the same old codger ..

No, maybe I wasn't clear about what I was saying. I was simply agreeing with you that there is something that is a reality out here that, as you say, has a certain cluster of symptoms that certain people struggle with. And yes, no matter what you "label" it, it does exist.

I was actually saying that my experience, I knew, has been different from those Christians I know who don't deal with OCD. I knew I was struggling in ways that (non-OCD strugglers were not.) No matter what you call it. Even when I didn't have a name or know there was something, I knew I had issues that most other Christians (the ones without OCD) did not. My own OCD experience has probably been pretty classic OCD,actually, beginning as a child with a hand-washing compulsion etc. and later morphing into "religious OCD" with the "unpardonable sin" fears and "salvations fears" and many other obsessions of similar nature.

 

[keryakos]

No, maybe I wasn't clear about what I was saying. I was simply agreeing with you that there is something that is a reality out here that, as you say, has a certain cluster of symptoms that certain people struggle with. And yes, no matter what you "label" it, it does exist.

I was actually saying that my experience, I knew, has been different from those Christians I know who don't deal with OCD. I knew I was struggling in ways that (non-OCD strugglers were not.) No matter what you call it. Even when I didn't have a name or know there was something, I knew I had issues that most other Christians (the ones without OCD) did not. My own OCD experience has probably been pretty classic OCD,actually, beginning as a child with a hand-washing compulsion etc. and later morphing into "religious OCD" with the "unpardonable sin" fears and "salvations fears" and many other obsessions of similar nature.

thats why i have said it would be much easier to sit in a room and talk rather than type it out because there is too much room for misunderstanding online ..

YOUR A PEACH THANKS

 

[kaykay9.0]

thats why i have said it would be much easier to sit in a room and talk rather than type it out because there is too much room for misunderstanding online ..

yeah!

Hope you are feeling better about things today, rachelz. Praying for you. You know last evening I was reading a (secular) local magazine that came in the mail. They have one writer that's does a monthly column on Christian topics. Yesterday, in this month's article she was talking over and over about recognizing how much God loves us in spite of what we do or don't do...just like we do with our own children. I just thought about you and wished you could take at least a little bit of that on board with you. I know that feelings and attitudes dont change overnight (generally.) but I just hope and pray for you that you can little by little move closer to understanding that God looks upon you with love and not wrath and disapproval.

 

[RachelZ]

HI KayKay thanks for taking the time and trouble to respond...yes I can relate to that feeling that before I knew it was OCD it was like I just felt different to others. I don't think other Christians get the fact of why I struggle so much with things. There is a Christian saying that says something like "If in doubt leave it out!" and that came up at our homegroup one night...I was like that just wouldn't work for me. There've been times when if I took that as 'gospel' then I woudn't have bought a tube of toothpaste let alone made more weighty decisions. I hope none of my doubts have caused spikes for others...I don't think I could say I don't think OCD exists I guess I just worry about what things are and aren't OCD...um, like us all I guess! Thank you too Kerakos...and I agree with both of you that call it what you will the symptoms are so similar between us all that it would be silly to deny its existance. The only thing I cannot agree with you on is you expecting me to stand tall...if you saw me without my heels on you would realise that you are indeed expecting miracles Keryakos...the only time I stand tall is when I stand next to our two year old and it won't be many years hence before he's patting ME on the head! LOL And yes I also agree that if we could all talk face to face there would prolly be a whole lot less misunderstandings! And some hugs too I expect...

Thanks for your prayers KayKay and for sharing that article with me. I would dearly love to move closer to realising God's love for me. I think relating it to our kids and us does help though I'll come up with a whole load of "Yeah But's..." given half a chance! I know that the past few days our two year old has really been being a Two year old with a capitalT! I'm struggling with this thinking I'm doing something wrong where my hubby just says "He's 2!" In other words it's normal. In reality it's prolly just more of a shock cos he isn't a difficult child in general. Anyway, despite these more taxing moments tonight I was upstairs and he was downstairs with my hubby and I heard a bang and the then expected cry...yet again he'd fallen over...my response was to get myself from upstairs to downstairs and determine what had happened and check if he was OK and dispense suitable amounts of sympathy and huggings. I would love to think this is a small relfection of how God is with us but I think I really struggle with the God is my Father image. I find it hard to think He's feeling compassion for me. And yes you are also right in that the forgivenes thing triggered something. I think was has been said elsewhere just made me think that if my choices have been sins then I have to truly repent of them to be saved and that just screws me up in knots. If I thought about it all too much I could get even more worried cos if I've done sins whilst a Christian that I haven't repented of then is there no longer any way of salvation? I often just have prayed for general forgiveness not specifics and maybe that's wrong. I've also been quite cynical about some charismatic things and maybe that could be ascribed as blasphemy?! Bottom line is I dn't know how to get to a place short of a miracle where I can know that a. God has blessed me with my family not allowed me to live with the consequence of sin and b. that He's OK with me and working in and through me. I also wold love to know if He is as nice as some of you on here make Him out to be. I just sense a whole load of wrath and condemnation and struggle to experience His Love. I think I have done but maybe way back then I was in His will? The Truth is supposed to set you free...so why do I feel like someone in prison? Perfect Love is supposed to cast out all fear...so why do I feel so afraid? God's peace is supposed to surpass all understanding...so why do I feel it just surpasses me alltogether?

Thanks annrobert...thanks for your understanding and for taking the time to give me all those scriptures. Its funny I'd forgotten when I just wrote that above about the Truth setting us free that you'd said that in your post. I think to my shame that despite being brought up in a Christian family I don't know with deep conviction what is sufficient for God to save me. I mean I understand the cross and faith and repentance but when I read the bible it freaks me out as to what way is right in order for people to genuinely be saved and then to really please God and not annoy Him. I think I'm saved...but I have no certainty that God is pleased with me.

Thanks again people...for posting and praying...thankfully I have been able to have times today which were nicer...but right now I feel the anxiety in my arms and the troubledness in my mind that I have come to know and hate so well. I feel like there is a burden on me and I don't know how to get it off. I truly worry that my anxiety is actually my conscience at work and that it is my sinful, willfull nature that then twists that into confusion and what appears as OCDishness. Maybe all the stuff I get anxious about is real and if I'd paid attention to it all and dealt with it straight away maybe I'd be fine now. Just as I long for our son to obey us for His own God maybe I am the result of a child of God who is disobedient and who chooses the things of this world over Godliness. Please God help me if that is true!

Take care all...Rachel