Official Call For Papers

[LifeToTheFullest!]

This thread will be intended for original, scientific papers proposing a Different State Past," (DSP). The hypothesis should be able to stand on its own merits. Please present all necessary postulates and equation necessary to support your position.

Our current body of knowledge regarding astrophysics accurately reflects what Einstein began with his general/special theory of relativity. Our current model begins with the Big Bang, and describes the universe and its physical laws as we know them.

To those that would say that our current method of observation is fallacious, and somehow incapable of describing what we know to be true, this is your chance to present your findings.

Let's have it, no holding back. Please refrain from rhetoric and the "shortfalls" of modern science. We get that you don't agree with what modern science has to say. No problem. Just present evidence to the contrary, and let's be done with this.

 

[Michael]

This thread will be intended for original, scientific papers proposing a Different State Past," (DSP). The hypothesis should be able to stand on its own merits. Please present all necessary postulates and equation necessary to support your position.

Our current body of knowledge regarding astrophysics accurately reflects what Einstein began with his general/special theory of relativity. Our current model begins with the Big Bang, and describes the universe and its physical laws as we know them.

http://www.thesurfaceofthesun.com/Alfven/CosmologyAlfven.pdf Your statement "as we know them" is false. We do not "know" that inflation exists or ever existed. We do not "know" that "dark energy" exists or has any effect on nature. We certainly don't know of any form of "dark matter" that would explain current observations. BB theory is predicted on at least three forms of metaphysical entities (inflation,DE, DM) that do not pass the empirical experiment test even as well as "God did it".

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

Sorry, reading your post gave me a headache.

Do you have an hypothesis that will stand on its own merits regarding a DSP?

 

[Hespera]

the headache is the message

 

[AV1611VET]

Sorry, reading your post gave me a headache.

He said:

Your statement: "as we know them" is false.

We do not "know" that inflation exists or ever existed.

We do not "know" that "dark energy" exists or has any effect on nature.

We certainly don't know of any form of "dark matter" that would explain current observations.

BB theory is predicted on at least three forms of metaphysical entities (inflation,DE, DM) that do not pass the empirical experiment test even as well as "God did it".

 

[Michael]

He said:

Thanks. Sorry about that. I guess that happened when I edited the post.

 

[Michael]

This thread will be intended for original, scientific papers proposing a Different State Past," (DSP). The hypothesis should be able to stand on its own merits. Please present all necessary postulates and equation necessary to support your position.

Our current body of knowledge regarding astrophysics accurately reflects what Einstein began with his general/special theory of relativity. Our current model begins with the Big Bang, and describes the universe and its physical laws as we know them.

This statement is false. You do not know that inflation exists or ever existed. That requires a leap of faith in something you cannot demonstrate in controlled empirical experiments. That is also true of dark energy.

Electric Universe/Plasma Cosmology theory requires no such leaps of faith. Did you even read that paper or any of Alfven's work?

 

[thaumaturgy]

Electric Universe/Plasma Cosmology theory requires no such leaps of faith. Did you even read that paper or any of Alfven's work?

Oooh, the "electric Univers/Plasma cosmology". Is this the idea that giant plasma jets blasted earth and formed some of the regular normal sedimentary features we see?

I have a creationist friend who has been pushing this. If this is what I think it is, it is a rather pointless way to explain things that are actually much easier to explain using regular geology. (At least the parts I've seen in relation to earth's geology, the rest of the plasma physics I can't speak to.)

Am I thinking of the right "hypothesis"?

 

[thaumaturgy]

Also, as for the "Different State Past" that is usually mostly ginned up to explain the more recent events of the past 4.5 billion years (rather than going all the way back to the "Big Bang").

The last 4.5 billion years is really hard for Creationists because there's no evidence for the Literal Genesis account, but there is a whole planet's worth of evidence for "Deep Time".

Deep time is the greatest fear of any Creationist. It's hard to understand and it takes some amount of discipline to learn the geology. But it pays off if they could bother to study. But for some mysterious reason it makes them afraid it will destroy their faith. And that is sad.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Also, as for the "Different State Past" that is usually mostly ginned up to explain the more recent events of the past 4.5 billion years (rather than going all the way back to the "Big Bang").

The last 4.5 billion years is really hard for Creationists because there's no evidence for the Literal Genesis account, but there is a whole planet's worth of evidence for "Deep Time".

Deep time is the greatest fear of any Creationist. It's hard to understand and it takes some amount of discipline to learn the geology. But it pays off if they could bother to study. But for some mysterious reason it makes them afraid it will destroy their faith. And that is sad.

I don't disagree with you, but please, we have a zillion threads for telling Creationists what their problems are. This thread is their one big chance to put forward evidence FOR their claims, so lets let them do that, huh?

So how 'bout it, my fellow Creationists, present the evidence for Creationism science... NOW!

 

[demodocos]

All you'll get is a heap of bible quotes and far-fetched interpretations.

 

[dad]

This thread will be intended for original, scientific papers proposing a Different State Past," (DSP). The hypothesis should be able to stand on its own merits. Please present all necessary postulates and equation necessary to support your position.

If science can't prove a same state past (SSP), how would anyone use science in a debate for the DSP?? No scientific papers exist for the SSP. It cannot stand on it's own merits! It even is at odds with the DSP of history and the bible.

To call for science papers on something, you need some for a counter position. You have none, thus defeating your own arguement from the outset.

Our current body of knowledge regarding astrophysics accurately reflects what Einstein began with his general/special theory of relativity.

Can you give an example or two of this? Particularly how it might apply to any state of the far past (ASP)

Our current model begins with the Big Bang, and describes the universe and its physical laws as we know them.

It gets to the BB by using the present laws in reverse. To the point where they actually no longer apply, to get to the phantom singularity. It has no present laws there, or on the way there, only here. The rest is mind games.

To those that would say that our current method of observation is fallacious, and somehow incapable of describing what we know to be true, this is your chance to present your findings.

To those that would say that our current method of observation is not fallacious, and somehow capable of describing what we do not know to be true, in the far past, or future, this is your chance to present your findings.

Let's have it, no holding back. Please refrain from rhetoric and the "shortfalls" of modern science. We get that you don't agree with what modern science has to say. No problem. Just present evidence to the contrary, and let's be done with this.

Let's have it, no holding back. Please refrain from rhetoric and pretending the unknown is covered by the "shortfalls" of modern science. We get that you don't agree that modern science has nothing to say about the unknown, and what is learned from observations and records of men of old. No problem. Just present evidence to the contrary, and let's be done with this. Actually, I think we are done with it, because a same state past is not known, or proven, or science. Neither would a DSP be science. Fact is there is no science for either, science is too weak, and limited.

The experience observations, and records of the men closet to the far past agree with a DSP. I'll take it. And I will laugh at mere men pretending to have science that opposes the bible in any real way.

 

[Amoeba]

Creationism "science"

 

[StabbingHobo]

Wörds.

Ahh! The flood of evidence! IT'S CHRUSHING ME!!!
Not.
And once again, same state past is a negative claim, yours is positive. It is impossible to prove something didn't happen, or something doesn't exist. You can't prove leprechauns who created the world don't exist. That's why you're supposed to prove why things would have changed, which you obviously can't do, since it's nothing but self-deception for you to hold on to your infallible Bible schema.

 

[dad]

Ahh! The flood of evidence! IT'S CHRUSHING ME!!!

I might suggest a more stable position, that is not susceptible to being crushed.

Not.

Well, whether you realize it or not may be an issue for you. All I can do is deal in what facts are presented, and none have ever existed for the same state past you need. How hard is nothing to crush?

And once again, same state past is a negative claim, yours is positive.

Positive or negative it is a claim that you cannot support. I understand you would wish us to allow it to stand simply because you chose it. Doesn't work that way. You need to present stuff that can be supported as solid, evidenced, hard fact. That is, if you put out a science claim, or, more importantly, a premise for all science claims of the past! You can't just whiz one by us, sorry. It is too important for that.

It is impossible to prove something didn't happen,

That is why you can't prove the same state past foundational basis for so called science.

or something doesn't exist.

See above. Science is not set up to prove anything, certainly not the future, or the spiritual, or how the spiritual interacted with the far past! It can't say what existed. Just what is knows exists at the present state.

You can't prove leprechauns who created the world don't exist. That's why you're supposed to prove why things would have changed,

No, there is no need to prove what is unknown to science, and out of the depth and range and scope, and mandate of physical only science to deal in. However, it does make claims based on a certain state it can't know, or support, or prove. Therefore it is busted. Let it be known.

which you obviously can't do, since it's nothing but self-deception for you to hold on to your infallible Bible schema.

Prove that the creation state or heaven state is a deception? Why claim stuff you can't prove? ?? If science can't prove a same state past (SSP), how would anyone use science in a debate for the DSP?? Both are beyond the ability od physical only science to comment on.

Face it.

Now, either drop all claims based on the state you cannot prove, the SSP, or evidence the hilt out of the state you claim, and build all science claims of the far past on.

I do not have to drop what God filtered down to man in a record on the issue. Nor what the spiritual also experience of mankind has burned on the psyce of men. Nor the Sumer records of long lifespans. Nor the Egyptian records of spiritual beings mingling in the world of men. Nor the bible, and it's creation state acount. Nor the new heavens coming, and how we live in a temporary state.

My position is bullet proof to PO science. Your positiion is untenable, unsupportable, and full of unholy holes.

 

[StabbingHobo]

I'm holding an apple now. If I let go of it, will it fall down?

 

[dad]

I'm holding an apple now. If I let go of it, will it fall down?

If you had an apple from the garden, it would matter.

 

[StabbingHobo]

You didn't answer the question.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

This statement is false. You do not know that inflation exists or ever existed. That requires a leap of faith in something you cannot demonstrate in controlled empirical experiments. That is also true of dark energy.

Electric Universe/Plasma Cosmology theory requires no such leaps of faith. Did you even read that paper or any of Alfven's work?

And God said, let there be light!

Only it's completely and utterly dark.

 

[AV1611VET]

Deep time is the greatest fear of any Creationist.

Not this creationist.

It's hard to understand and it takes some amount of discipline to learn the geology.

It can take a hike, as far as I'm concerned.

But it pays off if they could bother to study.

If I was omniscient in that area, I'd do what Moses did:

By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

I'd give it all up for Genesis 1.

But for some mysterious reason it makes them afraid it will destroy their faith.

I wouldn't know.

And that is sad.

Put on a happy face ---