Eastern Orthodox does recognize a class of saints known as "Equal to the Apostles", isapostolos. Generally this is reserved for someone who was instrumental in the conversion of an entire region to Christianity such as St. Patrick, Sts. Constantine and Helen, and St. Vladimir.
Though my understanding is that Equal-to-the-Apostles is an honorific, not a claim that the individual is an apostle proper.
-CryptoLutheran
That aspect of Joel's prophecy was fulfilled in the first century. It doesn't say prophecy would continue throughout the entire 'last days' period.
Joel doesn't say they won't, either.
That's true. But this passage cannot be used to prove the continuation of prophecy throughout the church age.
It proves they started. You have to prove that they stopped.
Apostles is an office of the church listed by Paul, after the twelve plus himself plus Matthias became apostles, so apostles were being appointed who were mot chosen by Jesus.Most of those people are disputed as being apostles. The only confirmed ones are Paul, Barnabas & James.
In the New Testament the word 'apostles' always means the foundational eye-witness apostles of Christ (the Twelve, Paul, etc). The Greek word can also mean 'messenger' but it is only used in this sense in Phil 2:25 and 2 Cor 8:23, but here our bible translators wisely use the word 'messengers' to avoid any confusion with 'the apostles'.
The prophecy clearly and unequivocally says dreams, visions, and prophecy occur in the last days as God pours out His spirit, and therefore obviously continues as long as it is still the last days - which it is - and in fact will still be ongoing when the Day of the Lord occurs and the sun turns dark.That aspect of Joel's prophecy was fulfilled in the first century. It doesn't say prophecy would continue throughout the entire 'last days' period. Joel's prophecy also talks about the sun turning to darkness and the moon to blood. That doesn't occur until the END of the 'last days'. So some of the things listed may only occur at the beginning of the last days - such as 'Your sons and daughters will prophesy'.
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.Question: Which of the gifts listed above are still available to the body of Christ and which ones have ceased?
Jesus never chose Matthias personally 11 case lots. Jesus chose Paul personally and appeared to Him and converted Saul to Paul and he wrote most of our NT. You never hear anything about Mathias afterwords. The entire NT is filled with Paul’s teachings as is 1/2 of the book of Acts. It’s obvious Paul was Jesus personal choice . History speaks for itself on the matter and the evidence is overwhelming Paul was Jesus man for the office of Apostle. Peter confirms that in Acts and in 2 Peter 3 where he says Paul’s letters are scripture just the same as the OT.Apostles is an office of the church listed by Paul, after the twelve plus himself plus Matthias became apostles, so apostles were being appointed who were mot chosen by Jesus.
And Jesus is an apostle, Hebrews 3:1, so try to fit that fact into your definition of what apostle ALWAYS is defined as being in the NT.
Maranatha
The prophecy clearly and unequivocally says dreams, visions, and prophecy occur in the last days as God pours out His spirit, and therefore obviously continues as long as it is still the last days - which it is - and in fact will still be ongoing when the Day of the Lord occurs and the sun turns dark.
In Acts 1:8 Jesus said all those waiting there would receive DUNAMIS power after the Holy Ghost came on them.
Dunamis is Holy Spirit miracle working power.
When the Holy Spirit fell on Pentecost all 120 assembled there received the Dunamis gift of the Holy Spirit outpouring on them - not just the apostles -
and Peter didn’t say that it was a temporary gift given only to the 12 apostles,but was the fulfillment of Joel’s prophecy that in the last days, God will pour out His spirit on ALL flesh.
Peter then said to repent and be baptized to get that GIFT of the Holy Spirit they had just received, and added that the gift was for them, their children, for ALL AFAR OFF, even to as MANY AS GOD SHALL CALL. Acts 2:38-39.
There’s the expiration date for the gift, and giftings, of the Holy Spirit- when God no longer calls anyone, the gift will end.
Paul imparted the GIFT of CHARISMA to the church at Corinth, to have while they awaited the second coming of Jesus.
There’s the expiration date of spiritual gifts: when Jesus returns and they are no longer needed.
1Co 1:6Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
1Co 1:7So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
The word GIFT there is charisma, where the word charismatic comes from, meaning it’s spiritual gifts Paul imparted.
And knowledge is also one of the three which ends when that which is perfect comes, and the word knowledge there is GNOSIS, referring to mankind’s science, as proven by the warning in scripture to beware of science falsely so called - the word there translated as science, is also gnosis:
1Ti 6:20O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
So gnosis ends when that which is perfect comes, yet we are in a science explosion today, where mans knowledge- gnosis - doubles now every six months.
Thus both prophecy and knowledge increase in the last days, instead of ending - therefore tongues are also still for today, since tongues, knowledge and prophecy all end at the same time.
That which is perfect to come is Jesus,
because then we shall see FACE TO FACE - an obvious quote from Paul about Moses seeing God face to face, as a friend talks to a friend:
Exo 33:11And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.
Gods Spirit pours out in the last days - not for a third, not for half, but during all the last days - and spiritual gifts end with the return of Jesus when there is no longer a need for them.And those activities did indeed occur during the last days (in the 1st century). Just because this part of Joel's prophecy was fulfilled in the first century doesn't mean it has to continually remain in that state.
For example, each of the following prophesies were fulfilled, but these situations never persisted for very long:
- Jeremiah prophesied that Jerusalem would be destroyed.
- Ezekiel predicted that Tyre would be attacked.
- Isaiah prophesied that Jesus would speak in parables.
- Jeremiah prophesied that that the children of Bethlehem would be massacred.
- Zechariah prophesied that Jesus's disciples would desert him.
The fact that the sun is yet to be extinguished shows that not all of Joel's prophecy applies throughout the entire church age.
Jesus never chose Matthias personally 11 case lots. Jesus chose Paul personally and appeared to Him and converted Saul to Paul and he wrote most of our NT. You never hear anything about Mathias afterwords. The entire NT is filled with Paul’s teachings as is 1/2 of the book of Acts. It’s obvious Paul was Jesus personal choice . History speaks for itself on the matter and the evidence is overwhelming Paul was Jesus man for the office of Apostle. Peter confirms that in Acts and in 2 Peter 3 where he says Paul’s letters are scripture just the same as the OT.
hope this helps !!!
In the Greek, the word for "the perfect" or "completion" is in the neuter gender. It is not referring to a person.
Gods Spirit pours out in the last days - not for a third, not for half, but during all the last days - and spiritual gifts end with the return of Jesus when there is no longer a need for them.
Peter said they last as long as God is calling anyone Acts 2:38-39
Jesus says signs of tongues and healing follows those who believe, Mark 16.
scripture warns believers to stay away from last days churches who have a form of Godliness, but deny the POWER - Dunamis - thereof.
I would presume that Paul's audience knew what he was referring to by "the perfect."
If they knew Paul meant the scriptural canon, they certainly showed no urgency in getting it compiled. It would be another 75 years before the concept of compiling the canon would even be contemplated,
and nobody in Paul's time considered that his letters would be part of such a thing.
And when the last of the apostles died they knew there would be no one else authorized to write scripture. The canon would be complete.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?