• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Of dealing with Hereticks and Blasphemers

JM

Confessional Free Catholic
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2004
17,477
3,736
Canada
✟880,120.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Others
For your reading pleasure...(how else should we spend our Saturday evening?)

Benjamin Keach wrote,

As touching Hereticks or Heresy, the same Censure, when they are convicted, ought to pass against them; Heresy is commonly restrained to signify any perverse Opinion or Error in a fundamental Point of Religion, as to deny the Being of God, or the Deity of Christ, or his Satisfaction, and Justification alone by his Righteousness, or to deny the Resurrection of the Body, or eternal Judgment, or the like. Yet our Annotators say, the Word signifies the same thing with Schism and Divisions; which if so, such that are guilty of Schism or Divisions in the Church, ought to be excommunicated also. Heresies are called Damnable by the Apostle Peter; without Repentance such cannot be saved, as bring in Damnable Heresies, denying the Lord that bought them.

Two things render a Man an Heretick according to the common signification of the Word.

1. An Error in matters of Faith, Fundamental or Essential to Salvation.

2. Stubbornness and Contumacy in holding and maintaining it. A Man that is an Heretick, after the first and second Admonition reject. Now that this Rejection is all one with Excommunication, appears by what Paul speaks, I Tim. I. 20. Of whom is Hymeneus and Alexander, whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to Blaspheme.

Their Heresy, or Blasphemy was in saying the Resurrection was past.

Some would have none be counted an Heretick but he who is convicted and conde mned so to be in his own Conscience, mistaking Paul’s Words, Knowing t hat he that is such, is subverted, being condemned of himself. He may be con demned of himself, tho not for his Heresy, yet for his spending his Time about Questions, and strife of Words, to the disquieting the Peace of the Church ; or tho not condemned of himself directly, yet indirectly; according to the Purport of his own Notion, or what he grants about the Point in Debate, &c. Else the Apostle refers to some notable and notorious self-condemned Heretick. It is a great question, whether Hymeneus and Alexander were condemned in their own Consciences, about that Heresy charged upon them, and yet were delivered up to Satan. However the Rule is plain, respecting any that are subverted, and resolutely maintain any Heretical Notion, i.e. after he hath been twice (or oftner) admonished, that is, after all due means used, and pains taken with him, to convince him of his abominable Error; and yet if he remains obstinate, he must be delivered up to Satan; that is, the righteous censure of the Church must pass upon him, as in the case of other notorious Crimes. Heresy is a Work of the Flesh: and hence some conceive such ought to be punished by the Civil Magistrate.

The Glory of a True Church — Keach | Founders

 

JM

Confessional Free Catholic
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2004
17,477
3,736
Canada
✟880,120.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Others
JM excommunicated me last May. :p

Gord, no one has the power to excommunicate a person, only God. The church must recognize when a person no longer believes and withdraw from them.

Yours in The Lord,

jm
 
Upvote 0

gord44

Well-Known Member
Nov 4, 2004
4,361
666
✟37,508.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Gord, no one has the power to excommunicate a person, only God. The church must recognize when a person no longer believes and withdraw from them.

Yours in The Lord,

jm

I was being silly. Understandable what you said. It was actually an interesting read.
 
Upvote 0

drjean

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Nov 16, 2011
15,284
4,511
✟358,220.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Gord, no one has the power to excommunicate a person, only God. The church must recognize when a person no longer believes and withdraw from them.

Yours in The Lord,

jm


And when it is the minister and church that no longer believes the doctrine that never changes? Apostasy! It abounds today, sadly. :(
 
Upvote 0

JM

Confessional Free Catholic
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2004
17,477
3,736
Canada
✟880,120.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Others
And how is it managed, that we touch no unclean thing on our way out?

We are saved by Christ alone through faith and made holy in the same manner. Are you suggesting one continue in sin?
 
Upvote 0

JM

Confessional Free Catholic
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2004
17,477
3,736
Canada
✟880,120.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Others
"Whoever shall now contend that it is unjust to put heretics and blasphemers to death will knowingly and willingly incur their very guilt." John Calvin

"If he [Servetus] comes [to Geneva], I shall never let him go out alive if my authority has weight." John Calvin

Wihtout a context it is hard to know what you are implying. It seems you are being anachronistic. Calvin's support did not lead to the execution, that was on the city of Geneva to decide, and was common practice.


"Calvin had supported Servetus execution (in accordance with the common practice of the day)," Michael Servetus - Academic Kids

I found the source of your quotes…hardly impartial in their presentation. They are wacked out anti-Calvinist sites.


"Calvin agreed that those whom the ruling religious authorities determined to be heretics should be punished:
Whoever shall maintain that wrong is done to heretics and blasphemers in punishing them makes himself an accomplice in their crime and guilty as they are. There is no question here of man's authority; it is God who speaks, and clear it is what law he will have kept in the church, even to the end of the world. Wherefore does he demand of us a so extreme severity, if not to show us that due honor is not paid him, so long as we set not his service above every human consideration, so that we spare not kin, nor blood of any, and forget all humanity when the matter is to combat for His glory.[36]" (end quote)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

JM

Confessional Free Catholic
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2004
17,477
3,736
Canada
✟880,120.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Others
On the Sword

Hubmaier differs from most Anabaptists in his view about the sword. Unlike Anabaptists who forbid Christians from serving as magistrates because it required them to use the sword to uphold law and order and secure justice, Hubmaier suggested that the position of magistrate would be better held by a Christian than a pagan. Also, Hubmaier was not an absolute pacifist. He opposed war and would not permit a Christian to take up arms to overthrow a tryannical government, but he would permit a Christian to bear arms in defense of his country under certain conditions. Many feel that this position puts Hubmaier more in line with later Baptists than with the Anabaptists who were his contemporaries. Hubmaier
 
Upvote 0

JM

Confessional Free Catholic
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2004
17,477
3,736
Canada
✟880,120.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Others
Upvote 0