OCD & Conscience

[flowerforever7]

Hi,

I have a very severe form of religious OCD, where I am mentally assulted by blasphemous thoughts against the Holy Spirit and God repeatedly everyday. The problem is when I have a blasphemous thought and I am doing something or planning to do something, I can no longer do the intended action because I feel like it is tainted, and by continuing with the action I will be condoning the blasphemous thought, and thereby would likely go to hell. For example, if I am about to click on a link on the internet and I have a blasphemous thought while clicking on it, I have to back out and not go to the site. Or if I am looking for an apartment and I have a blasphemous thought while reading about it I have to refuse the apartment, etc. My conscience just will not sit right if I go through with the action that I had the OCD thought on. Also, sometimes I have a blasphemous thought against the Holy Spirit and make a vow to not proceed with an intended action because of the blasphemous thought that occured while considering it. OCD is literally eating away at my life and life opportunities. I feel painted into a corner. I feel like OCD is a matrix that I need to get out of, but getting out of it may involve sinning against my conscience and possibly the Holy Spirit, by going through with actions that are tainted by the thoughts or possible actions I made vows about. I feel like my brain is crippling in on itself.

Can anyone relate? Has anyone had help with natural remedies??? I have heard good things about Dr. Mary Reed's protocol (which I need money for, which is hard to do because the cursing blasphemous thoughts prohibit me from doing nearly everything that I initially set out to do which includes opportunities for making money). I need money to help treat myself, yet transgressing against the Holy Spirit and losing my salvation is not worth the money. Help???

Thanks.

 

[justpassingthrough21]

Hi, yes most people here know exactly what you are talking about. I myself have battled with the thoughts. I am doing much better now almost 1 year later, so it does get better if you do the right things. The first thing is realizing the thoughts are not your own. And then from their not feeling condemned by them. Then you can really start to get through some of the hardest parts of OCD.
Actually I suffered from severe anxiety over the thoughts and panic. I personally didn't want to have OTC meds or doctors so what I finally did was look into natural things that I can do. I have started taking lots of B-12 vitamins, D vitamins, and B-complex. This alone has made a huge difference. Also I heard that St. Johns Wort settles you nerves and you mind and can reduce the OCD symptoms(havnt tried it though). magnesium is considered a calmer. Although it won't "cure" you it will take it down a couple notches.
I also drink certain teas at night. There are some teas that have calming effecs.
Biggest thing is keep pressing on in the Lord!

 

[kaykay9.0]

The primary suggestion I have for you right now is to pay less attention to the blasphemous thoughts. NOW I KNOW THIS ISN'T EASY, but if you can decide to disregard them as totally insignificant, and do that, they will lessen. It is the anxiety attached to them which causes them to take on such significance. Say to the Lord one time and one time only (for your benefit, not His, but it will make it easier to do I think) that you are not going to give the thoughts the time of day. If they come, they come. If they don't, they don't Also tell the Lord you are not making any more vows except the rare ones that would be approved by a minister or your spiritual advisor such as "marriage vows" or something like that. I would suggest something similar about the vows. Tell the Lord you are making no more vows unless your first discuss it with someone you respect and they approve it. (such as example I gave) Then move on from that as well. Don't even consider whether you had a blasphemous thought or not. Just resolve to ignore and move on.

Again, I know this isn't easy, but the quickest way to stop the thoughts is to simply ignore them. ( Understand and tell yourself repeatedly if needed that you are doing this to respect God, NOT disrespect Him.) Your conscience need not object to doing something that will ULTIMATELY get rid of these thoughts, and IGNORING them will in time. Treat them as unimportant mind clutter. Again, if they come, so what? Just say that and go on about your day. Truly, the Lord knows your heart, and He knows you don't want these intrusive thoughts. He also knows that you are trying to lessen them by ignoring them.

 

[shelovesChrist]

we've all be through it here. its important to know that you're not alone in this. many of God's children have been through this. through meaning didn't stay. the Lord will keep you. you just have to speak the Word of God over your circumstance, into Your life, and as KayKay said ignore them the best you can. it is hard but nothing, NOTHING, can seperate you from the Lord of God. yes, even in this He can show His love and power in You. =) don't dwell on the past. don't dwell on yesterdays thoughts. they will come and go but God will stay. I get them from the time to time, but I know God knows my heart. He is our Father, we can curl up to Him and cry out and we do this through prayer Philippians 3:13

 

[mwright7]

I'm gonna repeat what the people before me said and say that we've all been through this. Try to just pass the thoughts off. I know it's hard, I've been through the same thing, sometimes they still hit me, but I know they aren't what I think and God knows also. As long as you continue to love the Lord and praise Him, nothing can keep you from Him, as long as you're willing. God knows you don't mean them. Know that God loves you and knows what you are going through.

 

[flowerforever7]

Thank you for all the great advice.
Unfortunately due to horrible blasphemous thoughts I am back on here again.
Here is what I need to vent about (comments appreciated):
I contacted a potential company seeking a job opportunity. A person from that company contacted me back and asked me to submit a link to my online professional profile. I have been trying to create a profile all day with multiple professional networking sites, because I would have intrusive thoughts against the Holy Spirit while creating the profile, and would have to cancel my profile because I felt like I would be advocating the thought / would be condemned for going ahead with the profile. I just tried with another one tonight and the same thing happened and the blasphemous thoughts kept getting worse, it almost felt like I was saying them. But I don't mean them. I kept telling myself to finish the profile and send it to the potential employer, that I have to get past the OCD thoughts. But I literally feel like puking in my soul at the thought of completing this profile and sending it to her. Once again I'm painted into a corner and out of life opportunities in front of me; and I can't go forward because my conscience is not clear to the point of feeling like puking from my soul. Help?

 

[kaykay9.0]

Thank you for all the great advice.
Unfortunately due to horrible blasphemous thoughts I am back on here again.
Here is what I need to vent about (comments appreciated):
I contacted a potential company seeking a job opportunity. A person from that company contacted me back and asked me to submit a link to my online professional profile. I have been trying to create a profile all day with multiple professional networking sites, because I would have intrusive thoughts against the Holy Spirit while creating the profile, and would have to cancel my profile because I felt like I would be advocating the thought / would be condemned for going ahead with the profile. I just tried with another one tonight and the same thing happened and the blasphemous thoughts kept getting worse, it almost felt like I was saying them. But I don't mean them. I kept telling myself to finish the profile and send it to the potential employer, that I have to get past the OCD thoughts. But I literally feel like puking in my soul at the thought of completing this profile and sending it to her. Once again I'm painted into a corner and out of life opportunities in front of me; and I can't go forward because my conscience is not clear to the point of feeling like puking from my soul. Help?

You MUST, MUST, MUST really get it into your head that the fastest way to get rid of the thoughts is to assign them NO VALUE AT ALL! They are simply MIND CLUTTER. If you feel badly (or guilty) about doing this, PLEASE remind yourself that you are ignoring the thought or thoughts precisely because this is your therapy FOR GETTING RID OF THEM. This is a good thing to do, NOT a bad thing. I know it's difficult and sounds counter-intuitive, but believe me, as someone who has been there, that this is the most effective way to quickly eliminate them. They only come because you are focusing on NOT having them and the anxiety about that makes it worse.

If someone told you ABSOLUTELY under NO circumstances, you are not to think of green monkeys, what would your mind do? It would think of green monkeys. Even someone who doesn't battle OCD would. It's really the same with this.

Just tell yourself that you are ignoring these thoughts to get rid of them. Say "so what" if they come. You are then to go right ahead with what you are doing whether they come or not. To do OTHERWISE, is actually not the right thing here. Remind yourself of that if you feel bad about treating it this way. Your conscience needs to feel clear, as you put it, about this BECAUSE IT IS TRULY THE RIGHT THING TO DO HERE. To not do what is effective to eliminate this problem is the wrong theing in this case. THIS will help you get rid of these thoughts ultimately and this IS right! It may take a little while but if you do it consistently, these your brain will cease bombarding you with these thoughts. They only come because of anxiety and focus on them. Ignore them. THIS IS RIGHT! Again, I know your mind will argue with you about that, but it's really effective. By "legitimizing them" and allowing them to control your behavior, you are actually making them stronger. Does this make sense? God knows your heart, but if it makes YOU feel better, tell him ONE time that htis is why you are doing this. Praying for you that you have the strength to do this.

 

[flowerforever7]

That is good advice; I understand it logically however it is not easy to do. Last night I felt shaky inside and on the verge of having a seizure from all the anxiety. Today I tried going through with one thing like creating a profile where I in my OCD said if "I go through with this profile then I'm selling my soul to the devil" regarding creating a page on there. I have been so anxiety stricken I have been physically nauseated. I am afraid I will have a seizure if I keep going through with the anxiety provoking stuff as I have had seizures in the past and my body physically feels like I may have one. I just don't know what to do. My conscience only is clear and I only feel okay when I do not go through with anything an OCD thought has tainted or I have made a compulsive vow about.

 

[kaykay9.0]

That is good advice; I understand it logically however it is not easy to do. Last night I felt shaky inside and on the verge of having a seizure from all the anxiety. Today I tried going through with one thing like creating a profile where I in my OCD said if "I go through with this profile then I'm selling my soul to the devil" regarding creating a page on there. I have been so anxiety stricken I have been physically nauseated. I am afraid I will have a seizure if I keep going through with the anxiety provoking stuff as I have had seizures in the past and my body physically feels like I may have one. I just don't know what to do. My conscience only is clear and I only feel okay when I do not go through with anything an OCD thought has tainted or I have made a compulsive vow about.

Ok, I have a question. Is the statement about "selling your soul" just an OCD thought that runs through your mind or is it something you are deliberately saying in order that you will force yourself not to do the action that was preceded by a blasphemous thought. If it's the former, just ignore. If it's the latter, determine to cease doing that and as I posted earlier in this thread, agree and state that you are only making any vows that someone whom you deeply respect is willing to approve. Does that makes sense?
Again, I can only suggest that you just remind yourself that to ignore the thoughts is the right thing to do here. At this point, maybe you aren't ready for that without some assistance. Have you considered meds, at least for awhile to try to get yourself in a position where you can accept some of the therapy needed to deal with this? If you are on meds currently for your struggles for OCD, I would suggest you might need a change or a dosage adjustment. Counselor at church if money prohibits professional counseling?? Also, even just a general practice doctor can prescribe meds for OCD. I think you need some additional help, here, Flower.

 

[flowerforever7]

Unfortunately I have no medical insurance, no doctor, and no job to pay for any of that. I am not on any medication for OCD. I tried taking inositol powder and it seem to really reduce my anxiety level and reduced the intrusive thoughts a little. However taking it causes dramatic hair loss in me for some reason. My hair falls out almost every time I touch it. I am looking into some other avenues like eventually taking GABA instead which may not cause that kind of reaction in me. You can pray for my circumstances to improve as treatment would be more feesable that way. Also religious OCD is different than regular OCD due to the heavy spiritual implications involved in the obsessions and compulsions. If you have suffered with religious OCD than you already understand this.

 

[kaykay9.0]

Unfortunately I have no medical insurance, no doctor, and no job to pay for any of that. I am not on any medication for OCD. I tried taking inositol powder and it seem to really reduce my anxiety level and reduced the intrusive thoughts a little. However taking it causes dramatic hair loss in me for some reason. My hair falls out almost every time I touch it. I am looking into some other avenues like eventually taking GABA instead which may not cause that kind of reaction in me. You can pray for my circumstances to improve as treatment would be more feesable that way. Also religious OCD is different than regular OCD due to the heavy spiritual implications involved in the obsessions and compulsions. If you have suffered with religious OCD than you already understand this.

Yes, that's unfortunate. Not everyone is in a position to need meds to be able to do therapy, but I really think you could use them to help you calm down a little.

I do indeed understand religious OCD. Most, not all, but 99% of my own OCD battles are religious in nature. So I do understand some of the differences. I also understand that you don't want to sin in order to do "therapy." So I know there's a difference, but you are combating some of the same things too as with other obsessions. Again, I do want to emphasize that with the blasphemous thoughts, it is the obsession/anxiety that sparks them. To ignore them is to RESPECT God in this instance because you are clearing your mind of them in so doing.

I will certainly pray for you that the Lord help you get whatever help you need with this.

I would also recommend you peruse the website (if you have not) www.ocdonline.com by Dr Phillipson.

It might give you some additonal insight about how OCD battles operate. Now you may object that some of what he says is not necessarily from a strictly Christian viewpoint, but I nevertheless, think he has plenty to offer on this subject.
I strongly suggest you look at the articles he has written regarding OCD and get what you can out of it.

 

[zingiber]

Flowerforever - can you not see how very OCDish your thoughts are? The very first step in treating the OCD, (I think even before ignoring the thoughts) is recognising the OCD for what it is. This is SO important. If you cannot see the enemy, you cannot win the battle. You have not yet really internalised the idea that these thoughts of yours are OCD. Thus they still torment you; and you think them 'conscience'! What you are thinking of as conscience is OCD. Think about it; think how illogical your thoughts are; try to look on them as an outsider would. Call your thoughts for what they are; OCD. Then follow Kaykay's excellent advice! Truly, what she writes is pretty much the only way out. It is unlikely that even meds will squash the thoughts completely, although they will help. You will always have to fight them cognitively as well.

In situations like these, it is advisable to ignore your emotions. Remember, truth is objective, not subjective, like feelings are. You find the truth with mind and logic. You have to realise that at the moment, your brain is confusing your feelings. And that if something is logical, it is more than likely true, and thus to be followed!

 

[flowerforever7]

@kaykay9.0

Regarding the selling my soul thing I am not sure if it was an OCD thought or if I did it from keeping me from going on that site. I think it may be a mixture of both; either way it was very compulsive. I think what happens is that a thought will compulsively enter my mind as a vow to God and I feel like I must uphold that vow. Or, that I am so shocked and disturbed by an intrusive thought that I immediately refuse inside to be associated with whatever I was doing when the thought came in. It almost feels like I don't have a choice in making the vow. Most often, I am not sitting there and calmly saying "God, I will not do this or that" It is usually quick and out of writhing and deep disgust that the vow happens, it feels almost automatic. Then when I calm down I feel hugely guilty and condemned for wanting to take the vow back. It honestly feels like I have little control of the compulsive vow making, for you to tell me to not make anymore vows is almost like you telling me not to have OCD because the vow making seems very tangled up within how my OCD plays itself out. I understand your good intentions with refering me to a counselor at church but most people do not understand religious OCD or OCD in general unless they are a professional psychologist. The common answers in that setting are praying, read your Bible etc. Unfortunately, reading a Bible or praying is nearly impossible when every couple of seconds you are being mentally assulted with a blasphemous thought. A lot of people don't understand OCD especially people without it, even in their good intentions to help. In my experience and understanding it is better to go to people who are actually familar with the condition like fellow sufferers or someone who is trained to help others with that disorder.

 

[kaykay9.0]

@kaykay9.0

Regarding the selling my soul thing I am not sure if it was an OCD thought or if I did it from keeping me from going on that site. I think it may be a mixture of both; either way it was very compulsive. I think what happens is that a thought will compulsively enter my mind as a vow to God and I feel like I must uphold that vow. Or, that I am so shocked and disturbed by an intrusive thought that I immediately refuse inside to be associated with whatever I was doing when the thought came in. It almost feels like I don't have a choice in making the vow. I am not sitting there and calmly saying "God, I will not do this or that" It is usually quick and out of writhing and deep disgust that the vow happens, it feels almost automatic. Then when I calm down I feel hugely guilty and condemned for wanting to take the vow back. It honestly feels like I have little control of the compulsive vow making, for you to tell me to not make anymore vows is almost like you telling me not to have OCD because the vow making seems very tangled up within how my OCD plays itself out. I understand your good intentions with refering me to a counselor at church but most people do not understand religious OCD or OCD in general unless they are a professional psychologist. The common answers in that setting are praying, read your Bible etc. Unfortunately, reading a Bible or praying is nearly impossible when every couple of seconds you are being mentally assulted with a blasphemous thought. A lot of people don't understand OCD especially people without it, even in their good intentions to help. In my experience and understanding it is better to go to people who are actually familar with the condition like fellow sufferers or someone who is trained to help another with the disorder.

Ok, don't know that this will help, but let's see if it might... If it were me in this case you described, I think this is what I would do. Now this is really more for your benefit than God's cause as zingiber said, it IS OCD.

Sit down, and say to the Lord something like this, " Lord, I do not want to make any vows whatsoever to do or not do or "sell my soul" or anything remotely like that unless it something that a respected spiritual advisor would approve of...like marriage vows, for example. Therefore, I just want to go on record right now as saying that ANY vows that come through my mind in any way, shape or form, or any statement about "selling my soul" etc., I am not in agreement with them unless I have spoken about them with someone I respect and they approve them as well."

Now even that is kind of a "concession" to the OCD, but I know for you, it may be necessary. That's what I would do. And then from there out, I would ignore any thoughts, vows, etc as utterly meaningless.

Yes, I do know what you mean about not everyone understanding religious OCD. I was blessed in that I found a professional counselor who was also a very strong Spirit-filled Christian and she had seen it quite a bit.

I am also going to post something gracealone wrote on a previous thread and see it that helps you any.
Okay, I posted it below. Maybe hearing someone else explain it would help....see below.....

 

[kaykay9.0]

This is Mitzi's post from last January regarding this same type of thing......
So I don't counter OCD thoughts with scripture, I ignore them and give them absolutely no credence. If I began to focus on them and feel that I have to counter them or undo them ..... "or else!"...then I am giving them too much validity and in doing so I highlight them in my brain in such a way that they soon take center stage.
You can usually find out pretty quickly if a thought is OCD. If fighting it makes you more miserable and your anxiety keeps peaking - if doing so gets it even more stuck in your brain than you can go ahead and label it OCD.
John Bunyan even preached whole sermons with blasphemous OCD thoughts floating about his brain. He learned to ignore them and not allow them to rob him of his determination to serve Christ. We need to learn from his example to do the same.
Praying for you.
Mitzi"

 

[flowerforever7]

Thanks, yeah, you suggested that before, and I tried what you wrote. Some of my vows are also non articulated but like an internal emotion in myself about the way I do things as in: If I have a blasphemous thought against the Holy Spirit while clicking on a website, I "know" in my head I cannot go on that website or read anything on it because it will be approving the thought and transgressing against God (as my thoughts were against God when I was clicking on the site). I feel horribly guilty and sick to my soul if I were to go through with that action, so sometimes also I mentally and emotionally refuse to go to that website out of disgust over that thought and not wanting to condone it. It is like a deep, unspoken and automatic vow to both God and myself. The OCD seems so tangled up in who I am it seems like though I can logically say "God, I am not making any more vows", the reality of that happening is very very slim as vows seem to be so tangled up in my case of OCD. Maybe your OCD doesn't invlove a whole lot of vow making like mine does. I wish I didn't have this condition. I really wish I didn't but I do; and this is how it is for me. I remember praying something to God to the affect of asking Him to hallow (bless) whatever else I do going forward regardless of the OCD thoughts that come. Obviously acting on that knowledge is easier said than done otherwise I wouldn't be on this forum again after repeated intrusive thoughts, compulsions and vow making. I think for me the thing is going to be to try to have faith that God has blessed everything regardless of the OCD thoughts. This obviously is really difficult. I'm sorry if I sound so negative but this is my around the clock reality day in and day out. Would love one day to be able to wave goodbye to OCD being a part of my life and have a big freakin carefree party doing it! maybe that will be in Heaven, but I do hope one day I get to see the day OCD never even enters my mind, and if it does it's just an insignificant tiny memory not this major controlling inescapable cage that never seems to go away.

 

[kaykay9.0]

Thanks, yeah, you suggested that before, and I tried what you wrote. Some of my vows are also non articulated but like an internal emotion in myself about the way I do things as in: If I have a blasphemous thought against the Holy Spirit while clicking on a website, I "know" in my head I cannot go on that website or read anything on it because it will be approving the thought and transgressing against God (as my thoughts were against God when I was clicking on the site). I feel horribly guilty and sick to my soul if I were to go through with that action, so sometimes also I mentally and emotionally refuse to go to that website out of disgust over that thought and not wanting to condone it. It is like a deep, unspoken and automatic vow to both God and myself. The OCD seems so tangled up in who I am it seems like though I can logically say "God, I am not making any more vows", the reality of that happening is very very slim as vows seem to be so tangled up in my case of OCD. Maybe your OCD doesn't invlove a whole lot of vow making like mine does. I wish I didn't have this condition. I really wish I didn't but I do; and this is how it is for me. I remember praying something to God to the affect of asking Him to hallow (bless) whatever else I do going forward regardless of the OCD thoughts that come. Obviously acting on that knowledge is easier said than done otherwise I wouldn't be on this forum again after repeated intrusive thoughts, compulsions and vow making. I think for me the thing is going to be to try to have faith that God has blessed everything regardless of the OCD thoughts. This obviously is really difficult. I'm sorry if I sound so negative but this is my around the clock reality day in and day out. Would love one day to be able to wave goodbye to OCD being a part of my life and have a big freakin carefree party doing it! maybe that will be in Heaven, but I do hope one day I get to see the day OCD never even enters my mind, and if it does it's just an insignificant tiny memory not this major controlling inescapable cage that never seems to go away.

Well, the Lord loves you regardless of the OCD battles. I know it stinks though. Yes, vows have been an issue with my OCD struggles too, but not nearly to this extent. But yes, I can understand what you're battling and I'm praying for God to give you a measure of freedom here. I know it's tough.

 

[flowerforever7]

Thank you, I appreciate your prayers. I was able to complete one profile online, and my OCD thoughts (what really feels like my conscience) fought me repeatedly on completing it. I am still having doubts here and there and feeling like I am sinning for having the profile up, but the anxiety has lessened moderately. I asked God to not hold all the past, present and future OCD thoughts against me and to not hold me accountable for all of the vows that I made that I am breaking to try to get past the OCD. This is so hard; I feel guilty for going forward with certain things I vowed not to do and like I am sinning. I am praying and hoping that God forgives me, is not resentful toward me, and that my salvation is not at stake. Thank you so much for your prayers and advice.

 

[kaykay9.0]

Continuing to pray for you that you find freedom in all this, Flower!

 

[zingiber]

And well done!