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Possession vs. Obsession

In this distinction we see the basic difference between the new and old covenant.

Under law we can none but obsess;
Under grace we can none but possess.

And yet, under law the world grinds on. Waiting long for some appointed rest...

But will it come?

OBSESSION
Ah, rest from the law! To rest from the obsession for life in its fullness; harmony with animals, plants, spouses and waistlines, bosses, the weather, retirement, death.

We each obsess to no longer obsess. We each attempt to outrun our own sinful momentum leading to death and hell.

"But will my will exist in darkness?
Is my calm toward death a guilty bribe, inviting any judge by passive grit to quit, acquit, or right resist my just desserts?

And out of time with all my feeble frame,
the task is burned in two, refusing song in lover's tune. Instead of grasping after soon, the brute offended lands by crime the hasty throe."


POSSESSION

(Thread, define!)

I feel a definition of the term possession would be a helpful discussion to have. The gospel is the "good news" of a new order and even a new creation! Sure, "possession" can be disregarded and defined thinly and found in the dictionary, and I will not argue with anyone there. But for something to be "news" it means it has to have already happened!

I simply thought this assignment an interesting (perhaps a bit to poetic...) way of looking at the nature the message of the new covenant! In the new covenant, we are given possession of "all the promises" and that is a very great claim! I wonder, if the world were to actually know the depth and vastness of that claim what would ensue... even, if just the concept were really understood! I long to define this term for myself, and welcome anyone to speak to that idea...

What is possession, if we thought of it's opposite as our state of obsession and lacking (caused by a world fallen from the presence of God)?
Possession of what? (and further) possession for what end?

Is there any religion or philosophy (or even fairytale!) with a claim like this? That in the here and now, because of the self sacrifice of the author of all life, we might be restored to fellowship with him, though we rejected him at the start? Friends, I invite a response! If this is what is meant by possession, what a day awaits the broken, the hungry, victims of injustice, the outcast, the orphan, the sick, the widow, the angry, the selfish, the poor and needy!
 
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Jul 6, 2014
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Under law we can none but obsess;
Under grace we can none but possess.

We each obsess to no longer obsess. We each attempt to outrun our own sinful momentum leading to death and hell.

I am currently in possession of eternal life
 
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Aldebaran

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I am currently in possession of eternal life

Not to mention the fact that any day could be our last, whether we're in our 90s, or 40s (like me), or even teens. Not as likely at the younger ages, but still very possible.
 
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PsychoSarah

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Not to mention the fact that any day could be our last, whether we're in our 90s, or 40s (like me), or even teens. Not as likely at the younger ages, but still very possible.

The statistical chance of me dying within 5 years is still lower than the chances of any given person in their 90's dying within the week.
 
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Aldebaran

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The statistical chance of me dying within 5 years is still lower than the chances of any given person in their 90's dying within the week.

True. But whenever you're going to die, it's an eventual certainty, whether it be in 20 years, or 80 years. Those years start ticking by faster as you get older too. (Not literally, but you know what I mean).
 
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PsychoSarah

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True. But whenever you're going to die, it's an eventual certainty, whether it be in 20 years, or 80 years. Those years start ticking by faster as you get older too. (Not literally, but you know what I mean).

Very aware of that, and I kinda wish I wasn't
 
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possession and obsession are the same thing. obsession is the feminine and receptive while possession is the masculine and giving quality. both must exist to create an infinity symbol. I would view obsession as infinite desire and possession as infinite love which is what infinite desire needs to be complete and whole.

God is not complete with his inability to give of his possession to someone and man is not complete with his inability to possesses that which he obsesses for. this means that obsession and possession were one thing and just different manners in which to express love as love is a merging of two things into one which results in the creation of a third.

God is only known as the creator when he creates. before God was creator he made everything out of himself for there is nothing else to make things out of other than his own self. the mystery of the death of God is the Son of God and he yet lives, it is one way of explaining how reality is. the second person of the Trinity is absolute humanity and absolute God. with the return of the Son to his Father the third person of the Trinity is manifest and so one can know that the foundation for all of reality is the Trinity and this eternal love and idea of Gods desire to be loved and to love, just like each of us desire love and to be loved. God loves his beloved and his beloved loves him. they love each other as to be one person and yet also distinct from each other as this is a more perfect unity than what oneness alone could make. two is summed up in three. oneness is found in threeness. we are all made in the image of God. we are all an expression of God, each eternal and a solid reality all our own, based in God.

God as creator is Trinity.
God not as creator is what can only be described as the inexpressible divinity or what I call the chaos of God or what some call the super-essence of God. this is where we are all lost in complete in-distinction of pure love. from this comes all things for all things are this. you could also say that there is no difference between the full revelation of the Trinity and this super-essence of God but it is not really possible to describe that which created the idea of describe... at least not from an in-part view of reality such as this physical human brain... but God can simply be experienced forever and ever as such. therefore he says "I am" for he is.
 
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sarxweh

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possession and obsession are the same thing. obsession is the feminine and receptive while possession is the masculine and giving quality. both must exist to create an infinity symbol.

Your sexualizing is more Freudian than biblical... But even just logically:

1. How can "possession be the giving quality"?

2. How is an infinity symbol a thing that "must" exist?? All feedback has to start somewhere...

obnoxious. (but funny too, I have to say)

I would view obsession as infinite desire and possession as infinite love which is what infinite desire needs to be complete and whole.

Sir, we are in agreeal. (Its a word. Trust me)


God is not complete with his inability to give of his possession to someone and man is not complete with his inability to possesses that which he obsesses for. this means that obsession and possession were one thing and just different manners in which to express love as love is a merging of two things into one which results in the creation of a third.

You totally didn't read the original point! And your theology is like a slip'n'slide covered in snake oil and cat urine
 
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Noxot

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Your sexualizing is more Freudian than biblical... But even just logically:

1. How can "possession be the giving quality"?

2. How is an infinity symbol a thing that "must" exist?? All feedback has to start somewhere...

obnoxious. (but funny too, I have to say)

just because something sounds like something else does not mean that they are the same thing. logic is nothing more than a perception and a judgement. what 'logic' is varies from one person to another. when you speak of this word ("biblical" ) all you are speaking about is a type of understanding of what you believe is biblical and what is not. as someones understanding changes so too does what they consider "biblical" to be.


1. because possession is a like a cup that overflows.

2. because the infinity symbol is representative of a divine plan of free and infinite love. both agape-love and the eros-love when understood from a spiritual sense as love and desire are two sides of the same coin. there is no male nor female in Christ...only the complete androgyny image of God. 'male' and 'female' are just terms to describe the same thing in different ways and this is obvious because humanity is one thing but they come in male and female versions. 'sorrow' and 'joy' are a similar way of viewing this "obsession" and "possession". sorrow and joy are the same thing though they seem like opposites. if one could understand some of the logic of God when he said that he will 'turn our sorrow into joy' or "darkness into light" then you understand that this sorrow was a product of heaven just like the joy is and in different seasons one or the other occurs.

the tree of life is not a tree of duality/separation like the tree of knowledge of good and evil is.
 
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sarxweh

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just because something sounds like something else does not mean that they are the same thing.

Qui, we

logic is nothing more than a perception and a judgement. what 'logic' is varies from one person to another.

Well... No. Unless you live in a world God didn't create...

LOGIC is systematic rationality. Perception itself is not logic.

PERCEPTION is the receipt of information, or the "face value" of something, where logic is the systematic processing of what we can perceive (This is why many science buffs find anything "spiritually objective" hard to swallow, for example. They know THAT they perceive, but they don't go into WHY - since they can't "perceive" those things).

And JUDGMENT would be what you do once you have perceived AND logically processed a bit. Judgment and choice happen when we take what we know and DO something with it.


when you speak of this word ("biblical" ) all you are speaking about is a type of understanding of what you believe is biblical and what is not. as someones understanding changes so too does what they consider "biblical" to be.

I personally don't think a monkey can understand the bible. To all humans though, the term biblical is a reference to what the bible means to GOD.

when I say biblical, that's what I mean. And BECAUSE I know the bible means something SPECIFIC to God, I take interest in the bible, and read it, and make connections throughout it.

I perceive. I process. I make judgments.

But only in the awareness that he himself wrote it and actually knows what he meant. God is not a deconstructionist English professor.


1. because possession is a like a cup that overflows.

I like it

2. because the infinity symbol is representative of a divine plan of free and infinite love. both agape-love and the eros-love when understood from a spiritual sense as love and desire are two sides of the same coin.

Are you coming on to me? jk

I can understand what you mean.


there is no male nor female in Christ...only the complete androgyny image of God. 'male' and 'female' are just terms to describe the same thing in different ways and this is obvious because humanity is one thing but they come in male and female versions. 'sorrow' and 'joy' are a similar way of viewing this "obsession" and "possession". sorrow and joy are the same thing though they seem like opposites. if one could understand some of the logic of God when he said that he will 'turn our sorrow into joy' or "darkness into light" then you understand that this sorrow was a product of heaven just like the joy is and in different seasons one or the other occurs.

Q. What's the opposite of a shark, a wallet, a pineapple, a bulldozer, a cloud, money...?

A. God knows

I think what you're saying is true and it sounds scripturish enough. But again, the original point was about defining obsession as a sort of lacking in the heart - caused by sin I suppose. And the point was to define "possession" if that specific word was conceived as a sort of "new covenant" opposite. Possession is a state, like obsession is a state.

Or something like that. I could be off on what he meant. But that's how I read it.

the tree of life is not a tree of duality/separation like the tree of knowledge of good and evil is.

I have often wondered about this myself. The bible doesn't say the tree was bad, but just says not to eat of it. But as innocent people, is this like when you tell a child not to cross the street? Its not that you never want them to cross. Just not when they are three.

Just a thought.

Also, isn't the tree of life literally the cross?
 
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