Observed evolution of organs??

[Edx]

Hi,

Having a debate in another forum and the guy is saying that we havent observed speciation, of course I gave him examples of that and he is coming back with the whole lets move the goal posts trick.

But he also saying we havent seen the evolution of new organs, I would like to know if I can point to anything?

 

[Tiberius]

Why are you even playing with him when he moves the goalposts? If the only way he can avoid losing is to move the goalposts, he's already admitted defeat. he just doesn't want to stop.

 

[Edx]

Why are you even playing with him when he moves the goalposts? If the only way he can avoid losing is to move the goalposts, he's already admitted defeat. he just doesn't want to stop.

I know, but I'd like to know for myself as well. Im sure theres something but I cant find anything, but Im probably looking in the wrong place. I can show fossils of course, talk about what evolution says about how organs developed etc, but I would like to point out the experimental research like we've seen with speciation.

 

[MrGoodBytes]

Here you go: Sea squirts developing fully functional two-chambered hearts. Admittedly, this was due to a gene being artificially shut off or being overexpressed, but since we know that genes do that on their own too, it doesn't have any impact on the process itself.

 

[Edx]

Great, this is the kind of thing Im talking about.

If there isnt already it would be nice to have all this documented in one easily accessible place.

Anymore?

 

[atomweaver]

Italian Wall Lizard evolves new digestive organs (cecal valves) to be able to digest vegetation;

http://www.pnas.org/content/105/12/4792.abstract?sid=dff0e6d2-5075-4d19-80b6-ca6796404d19

and a popular literature link to the same topic;

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/04/080421-lizard-evolution_2.html

 

[MasterOfKrikkit]

Italian Wall Lizard evolves new digestive organs (cecal valves) to be able to digest vegetation;

http://www.pnas.org/content/105/12/4792.abstract?sid=dff0e6d2-5075-4d19-80b6-ca6796404d19

and a popular literature link to the same topic;

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/04/080421-lizard-evolution_2.html

Beat me to it. Yep, this one's neat because we've observed it happen in the present -- no "well fossils can be interpreted to say anything" bs allowed.

 

[Naraoia]

Here you go: Sea squirts developing fully functional two-chambered hearts. Admittedly, this was due to a gene being artificially shut off or being overexpressed, but since we know that genes do that on their own too, it doesn't have any impact on the process itself.

Wow, that's cool. It smells like the sort of thing the book I've just read was talking about. Thanks for sharing

 

[rjw]

Hi,

Having a debate in another forum and the guy is saying that we havent observed speciation, of course I gave him examples of that and he is coming back with the whole lets move the goal posts trick.

But he also saying we havent seen the evolution of new organs, I would like to know if I can point to anything?

Another good one would be the evolution of the mammalian ear from the reptile jaw. Go to talk.origins and have a look for Theobald's "29+ evidences for macroevolution".


Regards, Roland

 

[Pwnzerfaust]

Here is an example. A population of lizards transplanted from one environment to another developed a new organ. From the article:

Examination of the lizard’s digestive tracts revealed something even more surprising. Eating more plants caused the development of new structures called cecal valves, designed to slow the passage of food by creating fermentation chambers in the gut, where microbes can break down the difficult to digest portion of plants.

 

[Naraoia]

Another good one would be the evolution of the mammalian ear from the reptile jaw. Go to talk.origins and have a look for Theobald's "29+ evidences for macroevolution".


Regards, Roland

The problem with that is it's mostly fossil evidence and that doesn't count as "observed" with creationists. You could of course refer to embryology... but I'm quite sure it's still not direct enough evidence for a goalpost-moving creationist.

 

[rjw]

The problem with that is it's mostly fossil evidence and that doesn't count as "observed" with creationists. You could of course refer to embryology... but I'm quite sure it's still not direct enough evidence for a goalpost-moving creationist.

You are correct and yes, genetics/embryology does help. I believe the relevant parts of the reptile and the mammal ear have the same initial developmental pathways, or something like that, strengthening the case that they are almost certainly related.

I am unsure of the details though.


Regards, Roland