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Observed evolution of organs??

Discussion in 'Creation & Evolution' started by Edx, Jul 11, 2008.

  1. Edx

    Edx Senior Veteran

    +106
    Atheist
    Hi,

    Having a debate in another forum and the guy is saying that we havent observed speciation, of course I gave him examples of that and he is coming back with the whole lets move the goal posts trick.

    But he also saying we havent seen the evolution of new organs, I would like to know if I can point to anything?
     
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  2. Tiberius

    Tiberius Well-Known Member

    +97
    Atheist
    In Relationship
    Why are you even playing with him when he moves the goalposts? If the only way he can avoid losing is to move the goalposts, he's already admitted defeat. he just doesn't want to stop.
     
  3. Edx

    Edx Senior Veteran

    +106
    Atheist
    I know, but I'd like to know for myself as well. Im sure theres something but I cant find anything, but Im probably looking in the wrong place. I can show fossils of course, talk about what evolution says about how organs developed etc, but I would like to point out the experimental research like we've seen with speciation.
     
  4. MrGoodBytes

    MrGoodBytes Seeker for life, probably

    +269
    Seeker
    Single
    Here you go: Sea squirts developing fully functional two-chambered hearts. Admittedly, this was due to a gene being artificially shut off or being overexpressed, but since we know that genes do that on their own too, it doesn't have any impact on the process itself.
     
  5. Edx

    Edx Senior Veteran

    +106
    Atheist
    Great, this is the kind of thing Im talking about.

    If there isnt already it would be nice to have all this documented in one easily accessible place.

    Anymore?
     
  6. atomweaver

    atomweaver Senior Member

    +171
    Agnostic
    US-Democrat
  7. MasterOfKrikkit

    MasterOfKrikkit Regular Member

    673
    +117
    Methodist
    Private
    Beat me to it. Yep, this one's neat because we've observed it happen in the present -- no "well fossils can be interpreted to say anything" bs allowed.
     
  8. Naraoia

    Naraoia Apprentice Biologist

    +293
    Atheist
    Single
    Wow, that's cool. It smells like the sort of thing the book I've just read was talking about. Thanks for sharing :thumbsup:
     
  9. rjw

    rjw Regular Member

    915
    +83
    Atheist
    Another good one would be the evolution of the mammalian ear from the reptile jaw. Go to talk.origins and have a look for Theobald's "29+ evidences for macroevolution".


    Regards, Roland
     
  10. Pwnzerfaust

    Pwnzerfaust Pwning

    998
    +54
    Atheist
    Single
    US-Democrat
    Here is an example. A population of lizards transplanted from one environment to another developed a new organ. From the article:

     
  11. Naraoia

    Naraoia Apprentice Biologist

    +293
    Atheist
    Single
    The problem with that is it's mostly fossil evidence and that doesn't count as "observed" with creationists. You could of course refer to embryology... but I'm quite sure it's still not direct enough evidence for a goalpost-moving creationist.
     
  12. rjw

    rjw Regular Member

    915
    +83
    Atheist
    You are correct and yes, genetics/embryology does help. I believe the relevant parts of the reptile and the mammal ear have the same initial developmental pathways, or something like that, strengthening the case that they are almost certainly related.

    I am unsure of the details though.


    Regards, Roland
     
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