Observed change in kinds.

[[serious]]

Kind = genus.

The standards for genus classification are not strictly codified, so different authorities often produce different classifications for genera.

Genus does not describe some unit of relatedness, but is instead a term carried forward from Linnaean taxonomy. About the only functional definition I could give for it would be a clade within a taxonomic family. Since family falls in to the same trap, would would end up walking it all the way back to a subset of living things. Kind, as it's being used, needs some definition such that we can identify what is and isn't a kind. Genus doesn't help you there.

 

[Loudmouth]

You are going back to the old argument. I have no problem to let giraffe, dog, cow, etc. to be put in mammal kind (for now). But human should not be one of them. The difference is significant enough to set up a new kind for human.

Significant enough? We only differ from chimps by 5% of our DNA. In fact, chimps share more DNA with us than they do with any other ape. Chimps certainly share more DNA with humans than they with dogs, and yet you put dogs and chimps in the same group.

Obviously, you are putting chimps and humans in separate groups simply to appease your religious beliefs. It has nothing to do with things like facts, reason, or logic.

 

[Loudmouth]

Kind = genus.

Then you are admitting that "kind" is an arbitrary grouping of species.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

I am not a biologist. So I can only say something about the principle. Since I know human, so I will use human as an example:

The high intelligence of human IS the chosen criterion to separate human from other animals. In order to give a representative behavior of the high intelligence, I select the raise and the use of fire.

So, how to identify significant criteria for kind classification? Biologists can work the most of it out. The principle is to focused on the function of life forms.

Use of fire is certainly unique to our species. Cooking our food is, as well, and depends on fire. Not every human is able to handle fire. But we all subsist on cooked food.

Some say our small jaws and diminished teeth are the result of evolution in a cooked food way of life.

 

[juvenissun]

Significant enough? We only differ from chimps by 5% of our DNA. In fact, chimps share more DNA with us than they do with any other ape. Chimps certainly share more DNA with humans than they with dogs, and yet you put dogs and chimps in the same group.

Obviously, you are putting chimps and humans in separate groups simply to appease your religious beliefs. It has nothing to do with things like facts, reason, or logic.

Are you only 5% better (or worse) than a chimp?

Poor fellow.

 

[[serious]]

Are you only 5% better (or worse) than a chimp?

Poor fellow.

Define "better" in this context.

 

[juvenissun]

No, they can't. You see:

For any definition of kind, change between kinds is either:
a. possible and has been observed.
-or-
b. does not require change in kinds for evolution to progress from simple cells to current diversity.

Kind simply does not exist the way you want it to. Hoping that someone else will prove your point for you isn't going to work out well for you.

Your argument does not run from the assumption. Kinds do NOT change.
Why should they change?

 

[juvenissun]

So if 50% of the mammals in the Great Ape Trust right now can raise and use fire, all of them are human?

I guess so.
If we don't like it, then we can raise it to 80%.

 

[AV1611VET]

I guess so.
If we don't like it, then we can raise it to 80%.

Define "80%" in this context.

 

[Loudmouth]

Are you only 5% better (or worse) than a chimp?

I am 5% different. Gorillas are more than 5% different from chimps.

Poor fellow.

Poor fellow? Are you really that disgusted to be a part of the Creation?

 

[DogmaHunter]

Are you only 5% better (or worse) than a chimp?

Poor fellow.

Funny how "different" quickly changed into "better" or "worse" to suit your argument.

Your dishonesty is showing.

FACT: the difference between humans and chimps is smaller then the difference between cows and dogs.

FACT: the difference between humans and chimps is smaller then the difference between chimps and any other organism.

 

[juvenissun]

I am 5% different. Gorillas are more than 5% different from chimps.

Poor fellow? Are you really that disgusted to be a part of the Creation?

OK, you are only 5% different from a chimp. Congratulation. You made yourself into their kind.

I am at least 5 million times different. I am in a different kind.

 

[AV1611VET]

OK, you are only 5% different from a chimp. Congratulation. You made yourself into their kind.

I am at least 5 million times different. I am in a different kind.

Evolutionists make monkeys out of themselves.

 

[Mainframes]

OK, you are only 5% different from a chimp. Congratulation. You made yourself into their kind.

I am at least 5 million times different. I am in a different kind.

You're certainly different.....

Humans are less than 5% different to chimps genetically. That 5% centres around morphology associated with bipedalism and changes to skull structure enabling a larger brain capacity. That 5% is what counts and makes us what we are. HUMAN.

I am entirely comfortable in my relationship with chimps, gorillas etc. It doesn't suddenly make me any less human or make humanity suddenly less capable. In fact it highlights how well our species (and ancestors) have done, and shows how rich our relationship with life on this planet actually is.

The fact that you and others are so desperate to be special and on some sort of pedestal speaks volumes.

 

[Aureus]

OK, you are only 5% different from a chimp. Congratulation. You made yourself into their kind.

I am at least 5 million times different. I am in a different kind.

Nope, you are genetically 5% different from a chimp.

 

[DogmaHunter]

OK, you are only 5% different from a chimp. Congratulation. You made yourself into their kind. I am at least 5 million times different.

What do you hope to accomplish with making such juvenile statements?

I am in a different kind.

The "special" kind. ;-)