Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
?? They're all over the place! Not only does the Old Testament record the journeys and events relating to the Hebrew and other peoples prior to Christ, but numerous historical personalities--King Herod and Pontius Pilate, for example--are spoken of in the Bible, along with the time frame for all of them.What relationship to historical facts does it have?
?? They're all over the place! Not only does the Old Testament record the journeys and events relating to the Hebrew and other peoples prior to Christ, but numerous historical personalities--King Herod and Pontius Pilate, for example--are spoken of in the Bible, along with the time frame for all of them.
There probably are, but my point was that the Bible has had the kitchen sink thrown at it by skeptics over the years and has held up well. Meanwhile, most of the other sacred texts of other religions don't even deal is historical events and people, geographical references, and so on that allow doubters to check into the accuracy of what's written. That being the case, no, I don't think that it can fairly be said either that they're all the same or that believing the Bible is just a matter of blind faith.Are there not many books that, while based on actual historical people, exaggerate and add fiction?
That doesn't follow as far as the value of the Bible is concerned--not unless the Christians you have in mind are themselves self-righteous and cold-hearted and show off all of that.When a christian gets into the mindset that everyone is wrong but them, it turns christianity into what the world portrays them as. Self righteous people, with cold hearts, and no regard for others.
A good and easy primer is The Challenge of a Liberal Faith, written by a Unitarian minister. You might like it. To be sure, you don't have to join anything.
Right. But it doesn't have anything against a belief in God at the same time.I don't think Albion suggested Unitarians as a put-down or trying to force you into something inauthentic. Unitarianism is perfect for someone that feels that a spiritual life is best directed to a set of principles rather than a belief in God.
That's true, but with this thread, we didn't have the "looking for a church" inquiry that we often receive. I saw our inquirer as wishing there were an identify for her rather than a church affiliation. If so, Unitarians already consider her to be a Unitarian...and she doesn't have to join anything.However, Unitarians are a small group for a good reason. While there is a lot of latitude in their beliefs, or lack thereof, it is very much self-directed and that doesn't suit everybody (after all, why reinvent the wheel if you don't have to?).
I don't think Albion suggested Unitarians as a put-down or trying to force you into something inauthentic. Unitarianism is perfect for someone that feels that a spiritual life is best directed to a set of principles rather than a belief in God.
However, Unitarians are a small group for a good reason. While there is a lot of latitude in their beliefs, or lack thereof, it is very much self-directed and that doesn't suit everybody (after all, why reinvent the wheel if you don't have to?). There are plenty of alternatives to the false dichotomies between religious absolutism and religious indifferentism.
I don't believe you really understand what classical theism is really saying about God. In turns out, actually very little compared to what we do not know about God (this is called negative theology, and it is important to understanding classical Christian theology). The theology of most ancient Christian churches confesses that God is incomprehensible intellectually. But an overly intellectualized approach to life necessarily beneficial (indeed, psychologists call this a defense mechanism, a way to repress emotions). As Pascal said, "The heart has reasons that Reason does not know". So we cannot know God intellectually through reason, then how do we know God at all? We know God through what he does in the world, what he does in our lives as believers.
The only sorts of Christians that believe that God is comprehensible intellectually are generally people in fundamentalist sects (some are intelligent, like William Lane Craig, but some of his views on God are outside the mainstream of historic Christian faith at times), and these types tend to be highly authoritarian and absolutist, or extremely liberal Christians who believe in things like Process Theism.
If we think we understand God, what we really have done is made up a God in our own mind, in our own image- an idol.
You say you want answers and truth, but the answers you will be given will never be fully satisfying, that is just the nature of life . Truth can be found, however it isn't found in abstract speculation or debate but in the earthy, gritty stuff that life is made of. A church could help you get there, or maybe not. After all, it's not like a phenomenon so complex as religion is reducible to doctrine or explanation, that is a big mistake a lot of westerners naïve in such matters make. In short you are going to have to get your hands dirty, you cannot just sit on a fence forever.
I have noticed some things since I began my curiousity-driven search for something greater than myself: I find that a lot of religious sects, and individuals in general, will taylor their beliefs into whatever is easiest or of most help for them. Sometimes, even, whatever they believe will make them the most money.
This makes it difficult for someone like myself, and so many others I know or do not know, to find what they are looking for. As an outsider observing the (mainly christian) groups around me, I find that most of them cannot agree with eachother what they believe, let alone with another group. It seems that most religions are focused on one thing similar: a deity. They may have different names for their deity, but in general, it is a benevolent being above themselves. It's not until you delve into what that deity does or does not want you to do, that the ideas get drastically seperate.
I find it difficult to avoid the want to just, create my own deity that fits everything I want it to be. Afterall, it seems that is what everyone else has done! Am I to just find the deity that I like the most and follow its teaching till I die?
It dissapoints me because I have always been inquisitive about religion, and I find it does not agree with the inquisitive mind. I came to religion in hopes of finding answers and truth for my life... instead, it only offers more questions. It was like going to a proffessor for answers, someone who has studied a topic for decades, and he knew about as much as I did.
A lot of christians argue that if you want truth, just read the bible. Or pray.
The issue I have with this? There are many sects who have a book that they say holds the truth. Which book is the correct book? If we are in an eternal race to truth and happiness in whatever may happen after this life, am I really to just take your word for it? Risk waisting my time, even my life, studying a book that no one can PROVE is real?
So far, my beliefs play out something like this: I believe there is a deity. I do not know its name, origin, or what it wants me to do. However, I do believe it is there. It is my hope, my faith if you will, that it is benevolent, compassionate, cares. Thus, it is my belief I should do my best to live to whatever standards it may have, which we assume are righteous. By this, I mean living with love for others, selflessly, and constantly seeking wisdom.
Many people will tell me it is this deity, or that deity, but I say there is no way to know. So why argue about it?
I suppose some people feel better about the unknown by arguing about it... I can see that everywhere. Helps them understand their own idea, in a facade of knowing everything.
Part of me worries if this is good enough. What if one of these groups of people actually have it figured out and I am way off?
I suppose my peace comes from knowing that, even if I was wrong, I lived my life in a way that was only beneficial to the world. I did not kill, maim, or condescend others. Instead, I lifted and loved them. Positive impact.
Feel free to throw out ideas, concerns, and beliefs. Curious what others believe.
What makes you think, "there *must* be something better than humans" ?
What do you expect to find, if anything?
I have noticed some things since I began my curiousity-driven search for something greater than myself: I find that a lot of religious sects, and individuals in general, will taylor their beliefs into whatever is easiest or of most help for them. Sometimes, even, whatever they believe will make them the most money.
This makes it difficult for someone like myself, and so many others I know or do not know, to find what they are looking for. As an outsider observing the (mainly christian) groups around me, I find that most of them cannot agree with eachother what they believe, let alone with another group. It seems that most religions are focused on one thing similar: a deity. They may have different names for their deity, but in general, it is a benevolent being above themselves. It's not until you delve into what that deity does or does not want you to do, that the ideas get drastically seperate.
I find it difficult to avoid the want to just, create my own deity that fits everything I want it to be. Afterall, it seems that is what everyone else has done! Am I to just find the deity that I like the most and follow its teaching till I die?
It dissapoints me because I have always been inquisitive about religion, and I find it does not agree with the inquisitive mind. I came to religion in hopes of finding answers and truth for my life... instead, it only offers more questions. It was like going to a proffessor for answers, someone who has studied a topic for decades, and he knew about as much as I did.
A lot of christians argue that if you want truth, just read the bible. Or pray.
The issue I have with this? There are many sects who have a book that they say holds the truth. Which book is the correct book? If we are in an eternal race to truth and happiness in whatever may happen after this life, am I really to just take your word for it? Risk waisting my time, even my life, studying a book that no one can PROVE is real?
So far, my beliefs play out something like this: I believe there is a deity. I do not know its name, origin, or what it wants me to do. However, I do believe it is there. It is my hope, my faith if you will, that it is benevolent, compassionate, cares. Thus, it is my belief I should do my best to live to whatever standards it may have, which we assume are righteous. By this, I mean living with love for others, selflessly, and constantly seeking wisdom.
Many people will tell me it is this deity, or that deity, but I say there is no way to know. So why argue about it?
I suppose some people feel better about the unknown by arguing about it... I can see that everywhere. Helps them understand their own idea, in a facade of knowing everything.
Part of me worries if this is good enough. What if one of these groups of people actually have it figured out and I am way off?
I suppose my peace comes from knowing that, even if I was wrong, I lived my life in a way that was only beneficial to the world. I did not kill, maim, or condescend others. Instead, I lifted and loved them. Positive impact.
Feel free to throw out ideas, concerns, and beliefs. Curious what others believe.
But wanting something doesn't mean it *must* exist; and you can create a sense of purpose from the real things that make up your relationship to the world - friends, family, needs, ambitions, desires, etc....I guess ... I want there to be more than there is. I want to create this sense of purpose, where the possibility remains that there is none.
But wanting something doesn't mean it *must* exist; and you can create a sense of purpose from the real things that make up your relationship to the world - friends, family, needs, ambitions, desires, etc.
I guess that works as long as you can convince yourself of your own mental creation.But is the hope that this all means something not the foundation for all religion?
The reason we create gods and religions, all throughout history, is because of our sense of entitlement, is it not? We have always wanted to be more than the dirt we are made of. The greatest fears of humanity have always been the unknown and death. What better way to conteract those fears than by creating a being who, unlike ourselves, knows everything and gives us purpose beyond our meager, short lives.
What purpose and meaning would that be?Yes, we can create sense of purpose in our responsibilities to those around us. But as those people die and leave us, the ever-looming fear of pointlessness returns. How great it must be to turn to a greater being when this time comes. One who can give us purpose and meaning, even if it might be all in our mind.
There is a reason that things are the way they are: confused and different. But there is an answer for everything.I have noticed some things since I began my curiousity-driven search for something greater than myself: I find that a lot of religious sects, and individuals in general, will taylor their beliefs into whatever is easiest or of most help for them. Sometimes, even, whatever they believe will make them the most money.
This makes it difficult for someone like myself, and so many others I know or do not know, to find what they are looking for. As an outsider observing the (mainly christian) groups around me, I find that most of them cannot agree with eachother what they believe, let alone with another group. It seems that most religions are focused on one thing similar: a deity. They may have different names for their deity, but in general, it is a benevolent being above themselves. It's not until you delve into what that deity does or does not want you to do, that the ideas get drastically seperate.
I find it difficult to avoid the want to just, create my own deity that fits everything I want it to be. Afterall, it seems that is what everyone else has done! Am I to just find the deity that I like the most and follow its teaching till I die?
It dissapoints me because I have always been inquisitive about religion, and I find it does not agree with the inquisitive mind. I came to religion in hopes of finding answers and truth for my life... instead, it only offers more questions. It was like going to a proffessor for answers, someone who has studied a topic for decades, and he knew about as much as I did.
A lot of christians argue that if you want truth, just read the bible. Or pray.
The issue I have with this? There are many sects who have a book that they say holds the truth. Which book is the correct book? If we are in an eternal race to truth and happiness in whatever may happen after this life, am I really to just take your word for it? Risk waisting my time, even my life, studying a book that no one can PROVE is real?
So far, my beliefs play out something like this: I believe there is a deity. I do not know its name, origin, or what it wants me to do. However, I do believe it is there. It is my hope, my faith if you will, that it is benevolent, compassionate, cares. Thus, it is my belief I should do my best to live to whatever standards it may have, which we assume are righteous. By this, I mean living with love for others, selflessly, and constantly seeking wisdom.
Many people will tell me it is this deity, or that deity, but I say there is no way to know. So why argue about it?
I suppose some people feel better about the unknown by arguing about it... I can see that everywhere. Helps them understand their own idea, in a facade of knowing everything.
Part of me worries if this is good enough. What if one of these groups of people actually have it figured out and I am way off?
I suppose my peace comes from knowing that, even if I was wrong, I lived my life in a way that was only beneficial to the world. I did not kill, maim, or condescend others. Instead, I lifted and loved them. Positive impact.
Feel free to throw out ideas, concerns, and beliefs. Curious what others believe.
What you're describing is called escapism, taking comfort in imaginary figments. I guess we all do it to some extent, but even trekkies know the difference between their escapism and real life.But is the hope that this all means something not the foundation for all religion?
The reason we create gods and religions, all throughout history, is because of our sense of entitlement, is it not? We have always wanted to be more than the dirt we are made of. The greatest fears of humanity have always been the unknown and death. What better way to conteract those fears than by creating a being who, unlike ourselves, knows everything and gives us purpose beyond our meager, short lives.
What's to fear? it's just the cycle of life; we happen to be the fortunate survivors of billions of years of evolution, and to be able give meaning to the time we have; and we have more power than ever before to effect our goals, long term or short term, whatever we decide them to be. To spend this opportunity chasing figments seems perverse.Yes, we can create sense of purpose in our responsibilities to those around us. But as those people die and leave us, the ever-looming fear of pointlessness returns.
I can understand the attraction of a father and/or authority figure (although it has caused a lot of trouble through history), but this deep a need for an imaginary father to be the focus of meaning and purpose, and distract from fear of pointlessness, seems somehow rather immature and sad... What proportion of Christians do you suppose feel this way?How great it must be to turn to a greater being when this time comes. One who can give us purpose and meaning, even if it might be all in our mind.
It may be interesting to note the number of Christians that have superhero needs as a result of father issues, but it's not exclusive to Christians. It's a human thing.I can understand the attraction of a father and/or authority figure (although it has caused a lot of trouble through history), but this deep a need for an imaginary father to be the focus of meaning and purpose, and distract from fear of pointlessness, seems somehow rather immature and sad... What proportion of Christians do you suppose feel this way?
I'm actually more interested to know how many don't have this need - and yes, I realise it's probably impossible to make more than a vague guess at it.It may be interesting to note the number of Christians that have superhero needs as a result of father issues, but it's not exclusive to Christians. It's a human thing.
I would venture to say, that it's probably the same group that says they are not afraid when being shot at.I'm actually more interested to know how many don't have this need - and yes, I realise it's probably impossible to make more than a vague guess at it.
and we have more power than ever before to effect our goals, long term or short term, whatever we decide them to be. To spend this opportunity chasing figments seems perverse.
As for our differences: Those who make up the body of Christ, are One body, but many [different] members...some even seeming to oppose each other, as the thumb does the fingers of a single hand working for the same cause. Romans 12:4
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?