Observations and Rants

[Eric46350]

This is a rant. What I say may be offensive to some. Should the moderators find the need to delete this post, go for it.

I just came home from my brother-in-law’s funeral. Carl passed due to a massive heart attack. He was 64. Many of his friends and family were there. A handful of family friends he barely associated with were also there. His girlfriend of 30+ years was there. My wife and I were there. We got to see our grandnephews newest additions, Sophia and Michael, barely a year a part, both toddlers, both friendly. The Pastor of the family church gave the eulogy and sermon. He was loud, preaching fire and brimstone, and spoke praises of my wife’s parents who passed years earlier.

Once upon a time, Carl confided in me, drunk as a skunk on Dingus day, that he didn’t believe “all that's preached.” He was an atheist. Now, here’s his funeral with a pastor, religious music, god bless yous and praise Jesuses abound. I know Carl was close to his brothers. I suspect he confided in them, as well. Of the brothers handling the funeral, one was his closest, the other religious.

So, why all the religiosity? I suspect to placate the rest of the family, all religious to some degree. But why? Hadn’t Carl made final wishes? Or, was this simply the usurpation of those wishes by a religious brother? What about his long-time girlfriend?

Linda had been with Carl for over 30 years. They never married nor had children. Linda had a hysterectomy long ago, perpetrated by her parents account she is mentally handicapped. Back in the day, they used the not-so-polite term “retarded.” Carl’s family didn’t like her, feeling he could’ve “done better.” They didn’t trust her as she was prone to salvage garbage: parts and supplies for her “crafting,” and the occasional food. Carl kept a well-stocked kitchen, but Linda continued to rummage for discarded food. Carl had signed legal documents, years ago, and at the behest of the hospital, claiming full legal and financial responsibility for Linda. In essence, he adopted her.

At the funeral, as my wife spoke to family friends, I went to Linda, by herself, and spoke with her. She was quite distraught, as expected. She explained Carl’s final days to me: he was in pain, his legs had blockages, and the stints didn’t help. He was weak, light headed, and couldn’t hold down food. Later, I was saddened that several of the family and friends hadn’t spoken to Linda, and didn’t know of Carl’s suffering.

Why was that? Here is a family whose patriarch had been a pastor for all the kids’ lives, and who was praised for his wisdom, even today. Why did they shun the one woman who knew Carl the best? “What you do unto the least of my children you do unto me,” right? Why was this ignored? What will happen to Linda, now? Mentally handicapped, she’s not likely to find employment. Besides, I think she’s on disability. Several family and their friends joked about “you take her in.”

It’s behavior like this that has made me skeptical of religious people, of churches, and even of the bible. Here are my final wishes: I want specific songs played: "Never Marry a Railroad Man," by Shocking Blue; and "Something for Nothing," by Rush. For the recurring bible verse floating across the big screen, I choose Deut 23:1-2.

On another issue, I’ve had many Christians witness to me whether I needed it or not. Nearly all of them detail their sins, their transformations, and their blessings for accepting Christ. Why is that? Specifically, why expound upon their sins, misdeeds, even their crimes? Should I relate? I can’t. They’ve been drunk. I have not. They’ve been mean and angry. I have not. They’ve bought and sold drugs. Guess what! I have not. Why is pointing out their sins, almost to the point of being proud, the go-to tactic when witnessing? Sometimes, I get the feeling I cannot be religious without first being a criminal or societal outcast. Should I try to witness, I’m confronted by the sinner with their own list of sins, which, again, I cannot relate. Why are your sins so paramount to your witness? This means, this observation of mine, that no one can witness without first sinning profusely. Having not believed without grievously sinning is not an option. You must sin and sin badly before you can witness. When it comes to witnessing, nice people finish last. Why is that?

Would Psalm 12:3-4 apply here?


I once ate with a church group at a local restaurant. The 'leader' of the group order a Julian salad. It was a bed of lettuce topped off with ham, turkey, peppers, eggs, cranberries, pecans and dressing. The leader proceeded to eat the salad and, after eating the carb and protein rich topping berated the waitress of the missing toppings within the lettuce! "It's suppose to be a tossed salad!" He cried. Where in the bible is this behavior condoned? Oh, wait...Mark 11:12-14. I felt for the waitress.

I think this should be enough. If I have more, I'll post int eh comments.

 

[Strivax]

So, Christians aren't perfect. Most of us would admit that. Those that don't, probably have deep rooted psychological insecurity problems. Nevertheless, most Christians would say that they are on a path, a pilgrimage if you like, through life, that will improve them with age. We know we ought be better than we are, but we have the same issues as everyone else, when trying to reach that better. We have, at least, a perfect example to follow. So, we do at least try, and keep trying, and then try again, to live up to that example. I don't think it fair to ask more than that of anyone, whatever their faith, or lack of faith.

Best wishes, Strivax

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

This is a rant. What I say may be offensive to some. Should the moderators find the need to delete this post, go for it.
<...rant ...>
I think this should be enough. If I have more, I'll post int eh comments.

If it helps at all, atheists can be like this too

 

[Hieronymus]

There's nothing worse than christian hypocrisy i.m.o.

 

[Strivax]

Hypocrisy is a fairly hideous phenomenon in anyone else, regardless of faith or politics. We tend to be more lenient on ourselves though. As the Great Scot, Rabbie Burns put it: 'Oh wud some God the giftie gie us, to see ourselves, as others see us...'

Cheers, Strivax.

 

[SkyWriting]

So, why all the religiosity? I suspect to placate the rest of the family, all religious to some degree. But why?

Lesson learned?
Don't ask others to plan and pay for your funeral. Do it yourself.

 

[SkyWriting]

The 'leader' of the group order a Julian salad. It was a bed of lettuce topped off with ham, turkey, peppers, eggs, cranberries, pecans and dressing. The leader proceeded to eat the salad and, after eating the carb and protein rich topping berated the waitress of the missing toppings within the lettuce! "It's suppose to be a tossed salad!" He cried. Where in the bible is this behavior condoned?

You're not leading the group?
Why not?

 

[Hieronymus]

Hypocrisy is a fairly hideous phenomenon in anyone else, regardless of faith or politics.

I think a Christian should have no (assumed) need to be hypocritical.
Because repentance makes you hate your own hypocrisy and the idea that it may mislead others.
So a Christians who slips into hypocrisy should (i.m.o.) recognise, acknowledge and self correct sooner, do 'the right thing'.
The slip ups we make are lessons to be learnt.
Life throws many lessons at us.
So we become humble.

 

[Belk]

This is a rant. What I say may be offensive to some. Should the moderators find the need to delete this post, go for it.

I just came home from my brother-in-law’s funeral. Carl passed due to a massive heart attack. He was 64. Many of his friends and family were there. A handful of family friends he barely associated with were also there. His girlfriend of 30+ years was there. My wife and I were there. We got to see our grandnephews newest additions, Sophia and Michael, barely a year a part, both toddlers, both friendly. The Pastor of the family church gave the eulogy and sermon. He was loud, preaching fire and brimstone, and spoke praises of my wife’s parents who passed years earlier.

Once upon a time, Carl confided in me, drunk as a skunk on Dingus day, that he didn’t believe “all that's preached.” He was an atheist. Now, here’s his funeral with a pastor, religious music, god bless yous and praise Jesuses abound. I know Carl was close to his brothers. I suspect he confided in them, as well. Of the brothers handling the funeral, one was his closest, the other religious.

So, why all the religiosity? I suspect to placate the rest of the family, all religious to some degree. But why? Hadn’t Carl made final wishes? Or, was this simply the usurpation of those wishes by a religious brother? What about his long-time girlfriend?

Linda had been with Carl for over 30 years. They never married nor had children. Linda had a hysterectomy long ago, perpetrated by her parents account she is mentally handicapped. Back in the day, they used the not-so-polite term “retarded.” Carl’s family didn’t like her, feeling he could’ve “done better.” They didn’t trust her as she was prone to salvage garbage: parts and supplies for her “crafting,” and the occasional food. Carl kept a well-stocked kitchen, but Linda continued to rummage for discarded food. Carl had signed legal documents, years ago, and at the behest of the hospital, claiming full legal and financial responsibility for Linda. In essence, he adopted her.

At the funeral, as my wife spoke to family friends, I went to Linda, by herself, and spoke with her. She was quite distraught, as expected. She explained Carl’s final days to me: he was in pain, his legs had blockages, and the stints didn’t help. He was weak, light headed, and couldn’t hold down food. Later, I was saddened that several of the family and friends hadn’t spoken to Linda, and didn’t know of Carl’s suffering.

Why was that? Here is a family whose patriarch had been a pastor for all the kids’ lives, and who was praised for his wisdom, even today. Why did they shun the one woman who knew Carl the best? “What you do unto the least of my children you do unto me,” right? Why was this ignored? What will happen to Linda, now? Mentally handicapped, she’s not likely to find employment. Besides, I think she’s on disability. Several family and their friends joked about “you take her in.”

It’s behavior like this that has made me skeptical of religious people, of churches, and even of the bible. Here are my final wishes: I want specific songs played: "Never Marry a Railroad Man," by Shocking Blue; and "Something for Nothing," by Rush. For the recurring bible verse floating across the big screen, I choose Deut 23:1-2.

On another issue, I’ve had many Christians witness to me whether I needed it or not. Nearly all of them detail their sins, their transformations, and their blessings for accepting Christ. Why is that? Specifically, why expound upon their sins, misdeeds, even their crimes? Should I relate? I can’t. They’ve been drunk. I have not. They’ve been mean and angry. I have not. They’ve bought and sold drugs. Guess what! I have not. Why is pointing out their sins, almost to the point of being proud, the go-to tactic when witnessing? Sometimes, I get the feeling I cannot be religious without first being a criminal or societal outcast. Should I try to witness, I’m confronted by the sinner with their own list of sins, which, again, I cannot relate. Why are your sins so paramount to your witness? This means, this observation of mine, that no one can witness without first sinning profusely. Having not believed without grievously sinning is not an option. You must sin and sin badly before you can witness. When it comes to witnessing, nice people finish last. Why is that?

Would Psalm 12:3-4 apply here?


I once ate with a church group at a local restaurant. The 'leader' of the group order a Julian salad. It was a bed of lettuce topped off with ham, turkey, peppers, eggs, cranberries, pecans and dressing. The leader proceeded to eat the salad and, after eating the carb and protein rich topping berated the waitress of the missing toppings within the lettuce! "It's suppose to be a tossed salad!" He cried. Where in the bible is this behavior condoned? Oh, wait...Mark 11:12-14. I felt for the waitress.

I think this should be enough. If I have more, I'll post int eh comments.

Christians are still human and still have all the same foibles all people have. Do not judge them to harshly. People are almost never at their best at a funeral.

 

[Moral Orel]

So, why all the religiosity? I suspect to placate the rest of the family, all religious to some degree. But why? Hadn’t Carl made final wishes?

Lesson learned?
Don't ask others to plan and pay for your funeral. Do it yourself.

Funerals aren't for the dead.

 

[Nithavela]

I once ate with a church group at a local restaurant. The 'leader' of the group order a Julian salad. It was a bed of lettuce topped off with ham, turkey, peppers, eggs, cranberries, pecans and dressing. The leader proceeded to eat the salad and, after eating the carb and protein rich topping berated the waitress of the missing toppings within the lettuce! "It's suppose to be a tossed salad!" He cried. Where in the bible is this behavior condoned? Oh, wait...Mark 11:12-14. I felt for the waitress.

Should have told him to toss his own salad.

 

[Albion]

On another issue, I’ve had many Christians witness to me whether I needed it or not. Nearly all of them detail their sins, their transformations, and their blessings for accepting Christ. Why is that?

They want you to know that they're not talking down to you as though they're perfect for being churchgoers or whatever...and you're not. They want you to know that they believe we all need to repent.

Should I relate? I can’t. They’ve been drunk. I have not. They’ve been mean and angry. I have not. They’ve bought and sold drugs. Guess what! I have not.

Apparently your sins and their sins are not the same ones. Still, all people have sinned and come short of what we ought to be.

 

[KWCrazy]

I've never been to a funeral where the preacher said, "Here lies an atheist and a drunkard; a man who's entire life was devoted to the corruption of his mind through alcohol and drugs. He neglected his children and subjected his family to poverty to pay for his lifestyle. Never have I seen him sober." Yet I was at a funeral for just such a man. It was in a funeral home because the man wouldn't be caught dead (literally) in a church. Was any of this brought up? No. He was portrayed as a loving husband and father, called home early due to an illness. Nobody wants to here "Uncle Joe assuredly went to Hell." They want to hold out some hope that many in his last moments their loved one converted.

 

[SkyWriting]

I've never been to a funeral where the preacher said, "Here lies an atheist and a drunkard; a man who's entire life was devoted to the corruption of his mind through alcohol and drugs. He neglected his children and subjected his family to poverty to pay for his lifestyle. Never have I seen him sober." Yet I was at a funeral for just such a man. It was in a funeral home because the man wouldn't be caught dead (literally) in a church. Was any of this brought up? No. He was portrayed as a loving husband and father, called home early due to an illness. Nobody wants to here "Uncle Joe assuredly went to Hell." They want to hold out some hope that many in his last moments their loved one converted.

And we don't have authority to judge anyway.

 

[joshua 1 9]

This is a rant. What I say may be offensive to some. Should the moderators find the need to delete this post, go for it.

I just came home from my brother-in-law’s funeral. Carl passed due to a massive heart attack. He was 64. Many of his friends and family were there. A handful of family friends he barely associated with were also there. His girlfriend of 30+ years was there. My wife and I were there. We got to see our grandnephews newest additions, Sophia and Michael, barely a year a part, both toddlers, both friendly. The Pastor of the family church gave the eulogy and sermon. He was loud, preaching fire and brimstone, and spoke praises of my wife’s parents who passed years earlier.

Once upon a time, Carl confided in me, drunk as a skunk on Dingus day, that he didn’t believe “all that's preached.” He was an atheist. Now, here’s his funeral with a pastor, religious music, god bless yous and praise Jesuses abound. I know Carl was close to his brothers. I suspect he confided in them, as well. Of the brothers handling the funeral, one was his closest, the other religious.

So, why all the religiosity? I suspect to placate the rest of the family, all religious to some degree. But why? Hadn’t Carl made final wishes? Or, was this simply the usurpation of those wishes by a religious brother? What about his long-time girlfriend?

Linda had been with Carl for over 30 years. They never married nor had children. Linda had a hysterectomy long ago, perpetrated by her parents account she is mentally handicapped. Back in the day, they used the not-so-polite term “retarded.” Carl’s family didn’t like her, feeling he could’ve “done better.” They didn’t trust her as she was prone to salvage garbage: parts and supplies for her “crafting,” and the occasional food. Carl kept a well-stocked kitchen, but Linda continued to rummage for discarded food. Carl had signed legal documents, years ago, and at the behest of the hospital, claiming full legal and financial responsibility for Linda. In essence, he adopted her.

At the funeral, as my wife spoke to family friends, I went to Linda, by herself, and spoke with her. She was quite distraught, as expected. She explained Carl’s final days to me: he was in pain, his legs had blockages, and the stints didn’t help. He was weak, light headed, and couldn’t hold down food. Later, I was saddened that several of the family and friends hadn’t spoken to Linda, and didn’t know of Carl’s suffering.

Why was that? Here is a family whose patriarch had been a pastor for all the kids’ lives, and who was praised for his wisdom, even today. Why did they shun the one woman who knew Carl the best? “What you do unto the least of my children you do unto me,” right? Why was this ignored? What will happen to Linda, now? Mentally handicapped, she’s not likely to find employment. Besides, I think she’s on disability. Several family and their friends joked about “you take her in.”

It’s behavior like this that has made me skeptical of religious people, of churches, and even of the bible. Here are my final wishes: I want specific songs played: "Never Marry a Railroad Man," by Shocking Blue; and "Something for Nothing," by Rush. For the recurring bible verse floating across the big screen, I choose Deut 23:1-2.

On another issue, I’ve had many Christians witness to me whether I needed it or not. Nearly all of them detail their sins, their transformations, and their blessings for accepting Christ. Why is that? Specifically, why expound upon their sins, misdeeds, even their crimes? Should I relate? I can’t. They’ve been drunk. I have not. They’ve been mean and angry. I have not. They’ve bought and sold drugs. Guess what! I have not. Why is pointing out their sins, almost to the point of being proud, the go-to tactic when witnessing? Sometimes, I get the feeling I cannot be religious without first being a criminal or societal outcast. Should I try to witness, I’m confronted by the sinner with their own list of sins, which, again, I cannot relate. Why are your sins so paramount to your witness? This means, this observation of mine, that no one can witness without first sinning profusely. Having not believed without grievously sinning is not an option. You must sin and sin badly before you can witness. When it comes to witnessing, nice people finish last. Why is that?

Would Psalm 12:3-4 apply here?


I once ate with a church group at a local restaurant. The 'leader' of the group order a Julian salad. It was a bed of lettuce topped off with ham, turkey, peppers, eggs, cranberries, pecans and dressing. The leader proceeded to eat the salad and, after eating the carb and protein rich topping berated the waitress of the missing toppings within the lettuce! "It's suppose to be a tossed salad!" He cried. Where in the bible is this behavior condoned? Oh, wait...Mark 11:12-14. I felt for the waitress.

I think this should be enough. If I have more, I'll post int eh comments.

I just went to a funeral for a best friend of mine. There were some problems between him and his kids and grand-kids. I tried talking to him about it and I could not make any sense out of what he was saying. Then I talked to his family at the funeral and they were trying to make sense out of it also. Sometimes there are regrets when people died. There are things that people need to work there way through. It is all a part of life, the fact that people die. I remember my grandmother lived to be 101. Once she told me that all of her friends had died and she was the last one still alive. I told her to make new friends. She said: You don't understand. Maybe not but it is all a part of it and we do not live forever. So we go through what we have to go through and we do our best to make the most out of it.

 

[seashale76]

As much as I disagree with how some want to do things (I've been to some bizarre funerals and memorials I didn't much care for)- I very much think that people need to let their loved ones know exactly what type of funeral they want. If someone was a non-Christian in life, then they why would they want to have the religious funeral espousing things they never believed in anyway? You'd think a funeral is the one time someone can make their last wishes known and I feel those wishes should be honored by family. I wouldn't want a secular or an Evangelical funeral, and would hope my wishes for my funeral would be adhered to by those I leave behind.

 

[devolved]

1) I always felt uneasy and perhaps even angry when pastor turn a funeral into a church service with a sermon and some old-fashioned religious pandering of "you could be in this coffin any day now, so better get ready and come to us" type.

I feel like it's extremely sleazy. It's sort of like standing in front of horrific accident and using it as an example to push life insurance.

I don't think I can escape religious affiliation with my family ties, but my specific request would be to celebrate my better side... learn from my shortcomings... and under no circumstances use my body as one of those dancing hot-dog mascots ... but of more religious kind.

2) Hypocrisy charge is generally misunderstood as "inconsistent behavior" rather than being what it literally means... wearing a mask or playing a role as opposed being something or someone. Hypocrites were stage actors that knew very well that they are not the things that they are playing.

Hence the charge of the Hypocrisy is a charge that calls a person out on whether they actually believe what they claim to believe as opposed to them not measuring up to some standard. There's a difference between genuinely trying to live up to some standards and failing... and understanding the standard and simply ignoring it unless the situation calls one to play a role. Hypocrisy would be a latter one.

 

[Tinker Grey]

I was at one like that last December--my best friend from High School. I must say, however, that the evangelistic nature was at the request of the deceased. So that, at least, is less obnoxious. I have objections to what the minister said, but again, my friend would not have objected.

 

[Archivist]

This traditional ceremony for a Habsburg Monarch, which has bee performed since 1622, was performed for the last time in 2011 with thec death of Otto von Habsburg. The procession of mourners arrived at the gates of the Capuchin Church, under which the Imperial Crypt lies. A Herald knocked on the door. A Capuchian then asked "who demands entry?"

The Herald responded with the name and title of the deceased. Otto was first introduced as "Otto of Austria; former Crown Prince of Austria-Hungary; Prince Royal of Hungary and Bohemia, of Dalmatia, Croatia, Slavonia, Galicia, Lodomeria, and Illyria; Grand Duke of Tuscany and Cracow" and a dozen or so other royal titles. The Capuchin responded "we don't know him."

The second time he was introduced as "Dr. Otto von Habsburg" and a number of his civic achievements, notably as President of the Paneuropean Union and Member of the European Parliment were mentioned. The Capuchin again responded "we don't know him."

The third time he was introduced as "Otto, a mortal, sinful human being!" The Capuchin finally opened the gates, proclaiming "So he may come in."