Obeying the Government

[JillLars]

Many times we hear people say that we are required to follow the laws of the land. I am wondering, when this rule applies. Romans 13:1-2 states:

You must all obey the governing authorities. Since all government comes from God, the civil authorities were appointed by God, and so anyone who resists authority is rebelling against God's decision, and such an act is bound to be punished.

What government are we to obey? The one of the country we are living in? What if we are visiting another country?

In many areas of the world it is illegal to preach the word of God. We have heard stories of the persecution of Christians in other countries. If missionaries are preaching the word of God in a country where it is illegal, are they not defying Romans 13:1-2.

Do all governments really come from God, even the ones that defy him? If there truly are governments that do not come from God, is this verse still relevant to our society. How do we pick and choose which laws to obey and which we shouldn't?

 

[lared]

Christians are to obey whatever civil authority they find themselves under......whether it be the political government they live under or the political government of the country they are visiting.....or it may be local authorities, whether it be the police or even for a youth...a school teacher.

However, where the civil authorities' laws conflict with God's law....then of course God's law comes first. This is know as relative subjection.

For example, a child has instructions to obey the babysitter...unless, of course, the babysitter asks the child to steal candy from the store....something that conflicts with the law of the parents.

This is how Jehovah's Witnesses view such matters. Thus, they obey all laws except laws that conflict with God's laws. Thus, in some countries, they are jailed for preaching the good news of the kingdom. Or perhaps jailed for their stand of Christian neutrality and refusal to participate in military affairs.

Civil governments are necessary for a measure of law and order, however, not one can bring about true peace and security to all humans. Thus, according to Daniel 2:44, the time will come when God will crush ALL human governments and only his kingdom government will stand and rule over mankind. Then finally, there will be true peace and security.

 

[pax]

Governments should be obeyed in all things except those matters with which it is in conflict with the eternal law of God. "Obedience in all things but sin."

 

[panterapat]

You must obey ligitimate authority unless this causes you to disobey God's commands. In that case, you obey the higher law.

 

[lared]

Sad to say, this is not followed by all so-called Christians.

Think of the hundreds of thousands or rather millions of so-called Christians, that obeyed COMPLETELY, Adolph Hitler during WWII, rather then obeying their God and his Son Christ Jesus who commanded us to love one another.

Millions of lives were either killed or ruined because these so-called Christians did not understand relative subjection and were sadly, not familiar with Christ's teachings and commands.

The German clergy class failed, and thus today, most German churches are empty.

 

[JillLars]

Thanks for the responses guys. I agree that God's laws come before man's laws, but in Romans 13:1-2 it states that all governments are from God. Is this in fact true? What about governments like the Taliban, and other governments that are about as far from God's law as you can get? How does one determine if the government is from God?

 

[Reader Nilus]

Live the Sermon on the Mount and the government will take care of itself.
Jeff the Finn

 

[bjh]

Thanks for the responses guys. I agree that God's laws come before man's laws, but in Romans 13:1-2 it states that all governments are from God. Is this in fact true? What about governments like the Taliban, and other governments that are about as far from God's law as you can get? How does one determine if the government is from God?

In the book of Daniel we read a couple things.
1) God removes kings and establishes kings (2:21) - even those like Nebuchadnezzar.
2) God rules over mankind and gives that realm to whom He wishes...(4:17)

Also consider Daniel chapters 3 (Shadrach, Meshach, & Abednego in the fiery furnace) and 6 (Daniel in the Lions' den).

--B. J. H.--

 

[cbk]

Sad to say, this is not followed by all so-called Christians.

Think of the hundreds of thousands or rather millions of so-called Christians, that obeyed COMPLETELY, Adolph Hitler during WWII, rather then obeying their God and his Son Christ Jesus who commanded us to love one another.

Millions of lives were either killed or ruined because these so-called Christians did not understand relative subjection and were sadly, not familiar with Christ's teachings and commands.

The German clergy class failed, and thus today, most German churches are empty.

True, they followed. But how many of them had Bibles that THEY read for themselves? How many were led astray to obey a "Christian" gospel which was far from the truth?

I think it goes much futher than these Christians obeying the command to follow the leader -- I think they didn't know what the 7734 the Bible teaches -- they were merely blindly following their leaders down the road to destruction with little thought or insight into Biblical right and wrong.... Gee, this type of action by Christians seems somewhat familiar to some current day issues facing the church and what is right and wrong and what it means to be a good, faithful Christian.

 

[cbk]

I’ll throw this one out there.

Well, it is true that the Bible says for us to obey our LEADERS. But, in America's case, sometimes you have to decide which leaders to follow for this is a democratically elected republic.

Our 'leaders' do not ask that we silently obey, do they? On the contrary, our 'leaders' ask that we freely express ourselves in making known our concerns, do they not?? In this way our 'leaders' can make better decisions for the country which they love and we do not violate the written law even in its most strict of applications.


Now, why am I saying 'leaders' and not leaders. Probably because our 'leaders', from my understanding, are not those who sit in an office, but the true leaders are the people, the voters, which includes us!!! Those we elect, that sit in their offices are OUR SERVANTS --- and not our leaders. This is what keeps America free.

Now, because they are our servants (with many bosses -- being the voters) with the flexibility to weigh and decide which course is best (because they have many bosses which tell them to do different things), we, as their bosses, have the right to give them our input, and to lobby, without remaining silent.

Our democratically elected republic is a unique form of government that was formed upon the foundation of many good Christians that believed that those making the decisions should not be leaders in the historical view of leaders, but that the final decision makers should be SERVANTS of the people. Sometimes, I believe, we all forget that.

America is set up to embrace arguing and debates for the good of the country. Granted, many do not like this and sometimes forget that Clinton, Bush, etc are not leaders, but servants who are chosen by us to serve us by making decisions for us.

In the end, we are held as the leaders of this country just as much as the President and other elected officials. This is why we must remember that our votes can lead to judgement. Many believe in seperation of God and the voting booth, but I disagree.

And if one of our elected SERVANTS told us to obey without any legal support (IE, pay you taxes, selective services, etc), then because he/she is our SERVANT we are not disobeying the Law of God, the SERVANT is.

 

[panterapat]

Sad to say, this is not followed by all so-called Christians.

Think of the hundreds of thousands or rather millions of so-called Christians, that obeyed COMPLETELY, Adolph Hitler during WWII, rather then obeying their God and his Son Christ Jesus who commanded us to love one another.

Millions of lives were either killed or ruined because these so-called Christians did not understand relative subjection and were sadly, not familiar with Christ's teachings and commands.

The German clergy class failed, and thus today, most German churches are empty.

The key word here is LIGITIMATE. A leader who opresses the people is most likely NOT ligitimate. We are to obey ligitimate authority.

 

[JillLars]

In another thread the topic of marriage was being discussed. People often use this verse in romans to justify the importance of having a legal marriage. Many people argue that no matter where you are, you are to submit to the authorities about this matter. How does one determine which matters this rule applies to and which it doesn't. As I pointed out before, there are many missionaries preaching the good word in countries where it is illegal to do so. Thanks for the responses, some very good food for though.