Obedience to the word of God is NOT optional -if we persist in disobedience we are not saved

stuart lawrence · Jul 26, 2016

Si_monfaith said:
Moreover you presuppose that the knowledge of sin still exists.

However with such a knowledge none can be justified (rom3:20).

Knowledge of sin definitely exists. James tells us to confess our sins one to another, and john tells us if we claim to be without sin we deceive ourselves. And as you agree, awareness of sin comes through the law.

None can be justified I you rely on a RIGHTEOUSNESS of observing the law rom3:20. However, Christ died for the christians sins( when they fail to observe the law) therefore your statements are incorrect

stuart lawrence · Jul 26, 2016

Si_monfaith said:
Now, kge brought all curses & death into mankind when adam&eve chose it. What is the solution from kge's problem?

The solution is to have the correct knowledge:
For sin shall not be your master for you are not under law( of righteousness) but under grace rom6:14

Dave-W · Jul 26, 2016

Si_monfaith said:
If gentiles are not under the law & so not under the curses of the law then they need salvation? From what?

From the fall. From perishing. You do not need the law to be trapped in sin. That is one of the problems with defining sin as ONLY transgression of the law; that is not fit the biblical narrative. Paul said this:

Romans 2:12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;

The Law was given ONLY to Israel.

Kenny'sID · Jul 26, 2016

ARBITER01 said:
It's not my ambition to oversee different forums and beat people up, that's not the motive here.

Your ambition was clear.

Great thread from the start and I was happy to see the attitudes in the first few posts because it shows there are many that are not into twisting the scripture to meet their own wants, and they believe in the clear truth of the bible. Does a heart good.

But then, the inevitable.

ARBITER01 said:
Salvation is received through repentance toward God and faith toward the Lord Jesus Christ.

Pay close attention to your own words..."repentance"

stuart lawrence said:
Faith unto salvation is a free gift. Your faith grows as you read, and learn from the bible.
You learn by relying on the holy spirit to lead you into truth, not by relying on understanding the greek or Aramaic versions of the bible

So now we can't learn from the Bible? All the definite truths and mentions of things we cannot do are now somehow just a confusing mess and the Bible cannot be counted on as actual truth? And since there is now nothing definite to learn from, kinda leaves things wide open for us the decide for ourselves what we can do, then blame our "easy way" findings in the Holy Spirit?

Si_monfaith said:
Moral law exists for those who do not accept the freedom from it earned by Jesus by His death (rom7:4,6).

It cannot exist for us who have accepted Jesus who has set us free from it. Hope you agree.

Only Satan would try to trick folks into feeling guilty for obeying God and trying not to live in sin.

Si_monfaith · Jul 26, 2016

stuart lawrence said:
The solution is to have the correct knowledge:
For sin shall not be your master for you are not under law( of righteousness) but under grace rom6:14

You mean to say that you still have kge? If so are you still under the curses & death brought about by kge?

Si_monfaith · Jul 26, 2016

DaveW-Ohev said:
From the fall. From perishing. You do not need the law to be trapped in sin. That is one of the problems with defining sin as ONLY transgression of the law; that is not fit the biblical narrative. Paul said this:

Romans 2:12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;

The Law was given ONLY to Israel.

Sin is revived by law (rom7:9). Without law how can gentiles come under sin?

Dave-W · Jul 26, 2016

Si_monfaith said:
Without law how can gentiles come under sin?

Why don't you ask Paul? He wrote it. He said we can sin without the law. Do you believe that?

I would submit that your understanding of how the Law and sin interact is flawed.

stuart lawrence · Jul 26, 2016

Si_monfaith said:
You mean to say that you still have kge? If so are you still under the curses & death brought about by kge?

Yeah, I have holy spirit revealed knowledge. Jesus is my one and only righteousness before the father. He died for my sins at Calvary. I am a child of God by faith in his son who loved me and gave himself for me.
How can I be saved without that knowledge?

Si_monfaith · Jul 27, 2016

stuart lawrence said:
Yeah, I have holy spirit revealed knowledge. Jesus is my one and only righteousness before the father. He died for my sins at Calvary. I am a child of God by faith in his son who loved me and gave himself for me.
How can I be saved without that knowledge?

Revealed Knowledge of what? Of good & evil which brought all curses & death to mankind?

So you have both the knowledge of Christ & the kge?

Si_monfaith · Jul 27, 2016

DaveW-Ohev said:
Why don't you ask Paul? He wrote it. He said we can sin without the law. Do you believe that?

I would submit that your understanding of how the Law and sin interact is flawed.

Sin is violating the law.

In eden adam did not violate the law. Rather, all curses & death came by choosing the kge.

What is the solution to be delivered from kge?

Dave-W · Jul 27, 2016

Si_monfaith said:
Sin is violating the law.

Paul said it was MORE than that.

You did not answer the question.
You just keep repeating your partial answer as if it was the whole thing. It is not.

The question once again: "He [Paul] said we can sin without the law. Do you believe that?"

Si_monfaith · Jul 27, 2016

DaveW-Ohev said:
Paul said it was MORE than that.

You did not answer the question.
You just keep repeating your partial answer as if it was the whole thing. It is not.

The question once again: "He [Paul] said we can sin without the law. Do you believe that?"

Sin is missing the mark or transgressing a standard or non compliance to a code.

You say no mark is required in order to be considered violating it?

Dave-W · Jul 27, 2016

Si_monfaith said:
You say no mark is required in order to be considered violating it?

Go re-read Romans 1

stuart lawrence · Jul 27, 2016

Si_monfaith said:
Revealed Knowledge of what? Of good & evil which brought all curses & death to mankind?

So you have both the knowledge of Christ & the kge?

I have just plainly shown you the christian needs knowledge, and according to john and James the christian has knowledge of their sin.
Were you brought up with very strict religion/legalism? I was. When that happens many often go to the other extreme as you appear to be doing

Linet Kihonge · Jul 27, 2016

Is it okay if we cleared up on what the laws of Moses were?

Is it okay for a Christian to break any of the 10 commandments? If No, Why?
Is it wrong to look for fortune tellers? If Yes, Why
Is it wrong to eat animals with hooves? If No, Why

The Laws of Moses are still viable to date. However, most believers will agree that even though the LORD cleared most of our debts under the laws, still, sins that defiled our bodies and the Heavens would always be sin. The only thing we don't do is that we don't sacrifice lambs for pardon instead we seek forgiveness from God, make confessions and remain repentant. :/

stuart lawrence · Jul 27, 2016

Linet Kihonge said:
Is it okay if we cleared up on what the laws of Moses were?

Is it okay for a Christian to break any of the 10 commandments? If No, Why?
Is it wrong to look for fortune tellers? If Yes, Why
Is it wrong to eat animals with hooves? If No, Why

The Laws of Moses are still viable to date. However, most believers will agree that even though the LORD cleared most of our debts under the laws, still, sins that defiled our bodies and the Heavens would always be sin. The only thing we don't do is thawe don't sacrifice lambs for pardon instead we seek forgiveness from God, make confessions and remain repentant. :/

According to the book of Acts, gentile christians were not asked to keep all the ot law

Linet Kihonge · Jul 27, 2016

stuart lawrence said:
According to the book of Acts, gentile christians were not asked to keep all the ot law

Stuart, the issue is not the law, the issue is, the sins that the Law of Moses decreed. Let's take a horrible example, "If a man marries his brother’s wife, it is an act of impurity; he has dishonored his brother," Lev 20 (21). Are you saying gentiles were allowed to do this? Is it okay for anyone to do this in anyway? No, according to God it's still a SIN.

Let's use this one, "Concerning all the animals which divide the hoof but do not make a split hoof, or which do not chew cud, they are unclean to you:" Lev 11:26, However, it's no longer necessary to consider what should be consumed and what shouldn't because the LORD cleansed all animals of the world, Acts 10.

All I am saying is this, things that defile the soul of man are what the Lord still abhors because man is His Temple and he demands 100% holiness from man in regards to things that make his mind or soul impure. But whatever would make his flesh unclean or clean are no longer an issue anymore. I hope you see my argument.

stuart lawrence · Jul 27, 2016

Linet Kihonge said:
Stuart, the issue is not the law, the issue is, the sins that the Law of Moses decreed. Let's take a horrible example, "If a man marries his brother’s wife, it is an act of impurity; he has dishonored his brother," Lev 20 (21). Are you saying gentiles were allowed to do this? Is it okay for anyone to do this in anyway? No, according to God it's still a SIN.

Let's use this one, "Concerning all the animals which divide the hoof but do not make a split hoof, or which do not chew cud, they are unclean to you:" Lev 11:26, However, it's no longer necessary to consider what should be consumed and what shouldn't because the LORD cleansed all animals of the world, Acts 10.

All I am saying is this, things that defile the soul of man are what the Lord still abhors because man is His Temple and he demands 100% holiness from man in regards to things that make his mind or soul impure. But whatever would make his flesh unclean or clean are no longer an issue anymore. I hope you see my argument.

I am sure you agree, the law God requires a christian to keep under the new covenant has been written on their mind and placed on their heart(jeremiah31:31-34, heb10:16&17)
Therefore, the law God requires a believer to keep is instinctively known to them in their mind and in their heart they want to obey it. There can be no sinning in ignorance( breaking the law you are asked to keep due to ignorance) under the new covenant. Therefore, it is not possible for a christian to sin in ignorance of the fact when they commit sin.
Therefore, if a person who goes to church has no conscience they sin, when they fail to adhere to any OT law only one of two things are possible. Either the law they have no conscience in failing to keep has not been written on their mind and placed on their heart by God, or they cannot be a Christian.
I assume you are a Jewish christian. All Jewish christians I have conversed with are so rich in knowledge. I therefore like to hope you will agree that what i have written is unarguable, and must be true
God bless

Si_monfaith · Jul 27, 2016

stuart lawrence said:
I have just plainly shown you the christian needs knowledge, and according to john and James the christian has knowledge of their sin.
Were you brought up with very strict religion/legalism? I was. When that happens many often go to the other extreme as you appear to be doing

So according to you it means Jesus' work of redemption did not do away with all the curses & death?

Si_monfaith · Jul 27, 2016

DaveW-Ohev said:
Go re-read Romans 1

The mosaic law is just a written form of the knowledge of good & evil that is already downloaded into the hearts of every human after eve ate the fruit.

Obedience to the word of God is NOT optional -if we persist in disobedience we are not saved

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