"Obamacare"

[Assyrian]

Yes, I do. I have relatives in health care. States, including mine, have programs that help those who have no insurance. Expanding state, not federal, programs is the right idea. We don't need more big government programs. You fond of the 15 doctor board that under Obamacare would decide what treatments you would given access to for what conditions?

How can you rely on individual states to sort out medical care when in all your history only one state Massachusetts has ever got everyone covered? Do it federally and you cover the whole of America, like Obama has done.

 

[TheBear]

As a direct result of "Obamacare", my company opted out of employer-based health care starting next year, and went to an exchange plan. For me, in order to maintain the same level of health care and comparable coverage, I have to pay an additional $1,400 a year, starting in 2013.

Thanks a lot, Obama. You really didn't help the situation for me, did you?

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

As a direct result of "Obamacare", my company opted out of employer-based health care starting next year, and went to an exchange plan. For me, in order to maintain the same level of health care and comparable coverage, I have to pay an additional $1,400 a year, starting in 2013.

Thanks a lot, Obama. You really didn't help the situation for me.

I heard Darden Restaurants and I think Sears did that. My out of pocket costs made my situation just as bad. Mine more than doubled.

 

[drjean]

Do you know anything about medicine? Expanding coverage reduces morbidity and cost. You can argue all day about how we should expand coverage, but the bottom line is that expanding coverage is mandatory if we want the health system of this country to work.

Example: poor person without health insurance has diabetes. No insurance, no primary care doctor to monitor his glucose. Comes into the ED with a gangrenous foot. Or a stroke. Or end-stage renal disease. This all would have been prevented if the glucose was under control, which is impossible to do without a primary care provider.

The myth is that poor people don't receive any medical care because they can't afford it. That isn't true. The problem is they DO receive any medical care they need through the urgent care centers and the emergency rooms...which cost a great deal more than regular MD office care and pharmaceuticals.

There are clinics as well in many of the poorer neighborhoods, outreaches of the local hospitals. If someone doesn't make use of them, it's not the taxpayer's fault. Unfortunate, yes.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Expanding state, not federal, programs is the right idea. We don't need more big government programs.

States are governments to.

You want 50 different plan with each taking care of the uninsured? What a mess that would be! What can possibly be wrong with everybody getting together, talking it out, and coming to an agreement for the country?

You fond of the 15 doctor board that under Obamacare would decide what treatments you would given access to for what conditions?

This is a myth. The board has no authority to decide what treatments are given.

 

[doubtingmerle]

As a direct result of "Obamacare", my company opted out of employer-based health care starting next year, and went to an exchange plan. For me, in order to maintain the same level of health care and comparable coverage, I have to pay an additional $1,400 a year, starting in 2013.

Why do you think Obamacare caused them to do this?

For if they are a small business, they will get a big tax benefit if they give their employees health insurance. And if they are a large business, they will need to pay the government to help support its share of insuring its employees if they don't give employees heath insurance. So either way, Obamacare gives them the incentive to insure their employees.

 

[doubtingmerle]

The myth is that poor people don't receive any medical care because they can't afford it. That isn't true. The problem is they DO receive any medical care they need through the urgent care centers and the emergency rooms...which cost a great deal more than regular MD office care and pharmaceuticals.

There are clinics as well in many of the poorer neighborhoods, outreaches of the local hospitals. If someone doesn't make use of them, it's not the taxpayer's fault. Unfortunate, yes.

We have covered this multiple times in this thread. These options do little to catch diseases in the early stages. As a result many are coming to emergency rooms in later stages of diseases when it is too late.

And many die. Study links 45,000 U.S. deaths to lack of insurance | Reuters

 

[doubtingmerle]

You have never proven Obamacare will save 40,000 lives, so your premise is false.

Did to. Study links 45,000 U.S. deaths to lack of insurance | Reuters

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

Did to. Study links 45,000 U.S. deaths to lack of insurance | Reuters

From your link:

"Some critics called the study flawed.

The National Center for Policy Analysis, a Washington think tank that backs a free-market approach to health care, said researchers overstated the death risk and did not track how long subjects were uninsured."

You have Harvard Medical school vs. another group. And, your study comes from 2009.

 

[drjean]

An average of 195,000 people in the USA died due to potentially preventable, in-hospital medical errors in each of the years 2000, 2001 and 2002, according to a new study of 37 million patient records that was released today by HealthGrades, the healthcare quality company. In Hospital Deaths from Medical Errors at 195,000 per Year USA

If we just want to play with stats, then statistically you're better off staying away from the medical help.

 

[doubtingmerle]

An average of 195,000 people in the USA died due to potentially preventable, in-hospital medical errors in each of the years 2000, 2001 and 2002, according to a new study of 37 million patient records that was released today by HealthGrades, the healthcare quality company. In Hospital Deaths from Medical Errors at 195,000 per Year USA

If we just want to play with stats, then statistically you're better off staying away from the medical help.

Better off without heathcare? I don't think so.

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

Free Flu Shots for Uninsured Greene County Adults | KSMU

http://www.warwickri.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1121&Itemid=297

so much for your argument that lack of insurance means people can't get preventative care.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Free Flu Shots for Uninsured Greene County Adults | KSMU

City offering flu vaccines at no cost to uninsured/underinsured residents

so much for your argument that lack of insurance means people can't get preventative care.

Free flu shots? Thats great, but this isn't the problem. Many have the early stages of diabetes and similar diseases that could be treated. They are receiving no care until they arrive in the emergency rooms in serious condition. Many lose limbs or their life because the disease was not caught in time. If they had had health insurance or could afford a doctor, many of these conditions would have been caught earlier.

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

Free flu shots? Thats great, but this isn't the problem. Many have the early stages of diabetes and similar diseases that could be treated. They are receiving no care until they arrive in the emergency rooms in serious condition. Many lose limbs or their life because the disease was not caught in time. If they had had health insurance or could afford a doctor, many of these conditions would have been caught earlier.

How do you know they are receiving no care? I had relatives growing up who were diabetic, had no insurance, and they never had any problems getting access to medicines. One of the family died because he decided to ignore the doctor's order to sanitize the needles he used for injections, so he poisoned himself.

 

[doubtingmerle]

How do you know they are receiving no care? I had relatives growing up who were diabetic, had no insurance, and they never had any problems getting access to medicines. One of the family died because he decided to ignore the doctor's order to sanitize the needles he used for injections, so he poisoned himself.

Read this thread for discussion of that problem.

You say these people had no insurance but they had access to treatment for diabetes. How did they do that? Did they pay for it themselves? Was there a government program that paid some of the costs?

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

Read this thread for discussion of that problem.

You say these people had no insurance but they had access to treatment for diabetes. How did they do that? Did they pay for it themselves? Was there a government program that paid some of the costs?

Local/state government, which as it should be, not a federal/national government program, like Obamacare.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Local/state government, which as it should be, not a federal/national government program, like Obamacare.

I am glad your local and state government provided healthcare to this person suffering from diabetes who had no insurance. What state is it that did this?

If your state provides free healthcare, why bother to have health insurance? Why not just let the state pick up the tab?

Not all Americans are lucky enough to live in states that cover medical costs for all their citizens.

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

I'll tell you it is down South. Indeed, it makes Obamacare look like a waste of time and effort. Empower the states!

Besides, who in their right mind would want a board of 15 men and women deciding what care you can or cannot get? I can tell you this - I would be dead if such a board existed 20 years ago.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Local/state government, which as it should be, not a federal/national government program, like Obamacare.

Why is a federal government program automatically less suited to providing patient care than a local government program?

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

Why is a federal government program automatically less suited to providing patient care than a local government program?

Less efficient, more administrative barriers, does not factor in local differences in health care needs, just for starters.

You want a one payer system, and Obamacare isn't that.

You have to ask - why did 60% of Americans oppose the passing of Obamacare? Why are more doctors against it? Why are so many insurance companies, hospitals, and pharmaceutical companies for it? The answer, is $$$$$$$$$$$.