Obama in Berlin!

[tulc]

Good job working a Spiderman reference in dude!
tulc(sending reps!)

 

[FatBurger]

...but it is out of jealousy.

I'm personally always jealous of people with lower standards of living than I have. It's why I spend all my time resenting third world countries.

 

[demodocos]

I really find it mind-boggling to see when people persistently cling to the idea that Germans somehow wish ill on the USA...

You're one of our major trade partners, we want you to prosper so we can sell you our cars (*), dammit!

(*) and solar panels

 

[Sign Of The Fish Burger]

<3 German engineered cars.

 

[plmarquette]

What happened to "Ask not what your country can do for you (Democratic Platform); but ask what you can do for your country" --John Kennedy [ a hand up, not a hand out...] It is neither Bush, Obamma, Clinton, Nader, Huckabee or who ever inheirits the mess we are in .... but Congress's "waffling;whining; and indecisiion"

Some one needs to develop some leadership qualities, some intestinal fortitude, and start backing down some of the special interest groups... doing what is best for all the people ... we the people ... that is of the utmost priority... which will never happen when big business or special interest groups or the mob, etc. buys the presidency, by buying the candidate....Republican, Democrate, or Independant...
Beginning today, treat everyone you meet as if they were going to be dead by midnight. Extend them all the care, kindness and understanding you can muster. Your life will never be the same again. Og Mandino, The Greatest Miracle in the World

 

[FatBurger]

But the president has a great deal to do with that. Bush has had more backing of Congress than any president since maybe LBJ, and our country isn't exactly in the best shape. I agree with you though, Congress needs to get its act together.

(The "since LBJ" comment is just off the top of my head for analogy only, I'd have to do a full comparison to really stick to it.)

 

[Adammi]

Bush has had more backing of Congress than any president since maybe LBJ, and our country isn't exactly in the best shape. I agree with you though, Congress needs to get its act together.

[radical liberal ranting]I completely agree. I've been in an argument with myself for several months about which is worse - a Republican or a weak Democrat. Lately I've been leaning towards a weak Democrat in light of the quote, "All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men (or women) to do nothing." This very adequately describes our current Democratic congress. There is not one single good reason why Bush and Cheney weren't ousted within six months of the inauguration of the 110th Congress. Nancy Pelosi should have become the first woman president some two years ago. But these lazy liberals have done nothing for the protection of the Constitution. They are accomplices to all of Bush's crimes in my opinion.[/radical liberal ranting]

Yes, I'm back to reality now and do realize that a 2/3rds majority could never have been reached, and had the impeachment been introduced it never would have passed. I just wish that the Democrats would at least look like they are standing for something.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

You were giving your explanation for why people in France and Germany "hate" America.

That's a funny and manipulative sentence when you think about it. What people? How many people?

Now you're just trying to downplay your lack of knowledge. You believe that the reason why people in Germany "hate" the USA because of your military bases here, but your belief that there are only four bases in Germany shows that your knowledge is very limited in that matter.

You were claiming there were no bases in Germany, to which I responded by naming the four military bases in Germany. I'm not sure why you are trying to get into an argument over this.
Besides, if you would go back and read my posts, the military bases isn't the only reason Germans and French hate America. That was simply one reason which you want to get into a tangent on- as far as what constitutes a military base.

Seriously, I got care about winning rhetoric points on the internet. If you want to go back and discuss the actual issue, let's go for it.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

I'm not upset because you misunderstood but annoyed because you discarded most of what I said by abruptly cutting off the quote.

And I, as a person living here, tell you that you are wrong. I don't know how you came to that conclusion, but it's definitely not based on facts. If there is any resentment stemming from the fact that the USA are maintaining military bases in Germany, it's by far outweighed by the goodwill stemming from the effect those bases have on the economy.

You really believe that your country's ability to de-populate the entire planet is something to be jealous of, right?

Oh get real, (Western) Germany has been working on getting rid of that Prussian mindset that makes people fawn over military strength for 40-60 years now.
Yeah, you've got a really biiig club, but by all means, that's nothing to be jealous of because, to quote Ben Parker; "With great power comes great responsibility".

I think your choice of words and issues is telling. I particular liked the part of how the US has power and thus, responsibility... so yeah... it's great not to have any power.

You're just trying to find flaws in others because it's easier than to concern yourself with your own failings.[/QUOTE]

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

I'm not upset because you misunderstood but annoyed because you discarded most of what I said by abruptly cutting off the quote.

And I, as a person living here, tell you that you are wrong. I don't know how you came to that conclusion, but it's definitely not based on facts. If there is any resentment stemming from the fact that the USA are maintaining military bases in Germany, it's by far outweighed by the goodwill stemming from the effect those bases have on the economy.

You really believe that your country's ability to de-populate the entire planet is something to be jealous of, right?

Oh get real, (Western) Germany has been working on getting rid of that Prussian mindset that makes people fawn over military strength for 40-60 years now.
Yeah, you've got a really biiig club, but by all means, that's nothing to be jealous of because, to quote Ben Parker; "With great power comes great responsibility".

I think your choice of words and issues is telling. I particular liked the part of how the US has power and thus, responsibility... so yeah... it's great not to have any power.

The simple fact of the matter is, about half of the German population has a major issue with the US. Although you might think I'm uninformed (which is what people resort to when they disagree but have no substance), I read what is going on over there... whether it's from the BBC, Der Spiegel, or whatever. They've elected very anti-American politicans, although the trend is finally reversing somewhat (see current French president)

[quopte]You're just trying to find flaws in others because it's easier than to concern yourself with your own failings.[/QUOTE]

I don't think you'll find a bigger critic of the US than me. But I think your above sentence is just trying to take attention away from the issue at hand.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

I'm personally always jealous of people with lower standards of living than I have. It's why I spend all my time resenting third world countries.

This statement really doesn't make any sense- as I was talking about Europeans (particular Germans and French) being envious of the United States.

The average American has a higher standard of living than those in France or Germany. However, European nations generally don't have a lot of super wealthy people- so there is more disparity between the rich and the middle class in the US than in Europe... although Americans have a better standard of living.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

I really find it mind-boggling to see when people persistently cling to the idea that Germans somehow wish ill on the USA...

You're one of our major trade partners, we want you to prosper so we can sell you our cars (*), dammit!

(*) and solar panels

I think my point has long been forgotten at this point.

The simple fact of the matter is, I don't think people of one nation really care about the people of another, except when it interests them. Your sarcastic remark is very true- Germans only care to the extent it helps them.

I'm not a jingoist. I have in fact, given up hope for the entire western world.

 

[FatBurger]

...Germans and French hate America.

That's a funny and manipulative sentence when you think about it. What people? How many people?

...although Americans have a better standard of living.

Care to back this up with some evidence?

 

[Rochir]

Wooouuuuuhhhhhhw!!!!

Keep it civil, please!!!!

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

Care to back this up with some evidence?

Standard of living is dependent on opinion- after all, whose standards are they? Many use political (socialist) factors like inequality of income, which has nothing to do with living standards.

There are many that base it on more objective and real standards- like living space, quality and quantity of food, and what property is owned, et cetera. In those standards, Americans have the highest standard of living.

France and Germany have significantly lower standards of living due to a socialist economy, which enables/causes more people to be unemployed. The German attitude, for instance, is that if you can not work in your profession, you simply wait until you do. That's fine- but that means you have fewer people producing goods at any one time. They also have strict labor policies- which make it hard for markets to be more flexible.
Someone may try to find an insult in there, but there isn't. That's just the German method. They value job security and to be given greater security for prolonged periods of unemployment while they wait for a job in their field to open up. This means they have less production- and hence, Americans have more. It all boils down to what you value.

Now, knowing this place, I suspect someone will respond to this by saying, "You didn't post evidence". If so, please look over my post again and try to grasp my point.

I am not saying America is the greatest country ever- that's absurd. I'm not saying America is better than Germany or France.

 

[Protinus]

Moderator Comments:

If there is anymore castigating of social or national groups or comments that would even be perceived as so, we will ice this thread. Members will begin to assume that there are too many mod comments in threads....don't test that.

Protinus.

 

[FatBurger]

France and Germany have significantly lower standards of living due to a socialist economy, which enables/causes more people to be unemployed.

This is true, though your stated reason is speculation.

...to be given greater security for prolonged periods of unemployment while they wait for a job in their field to open up.

Sounds like a benefit to me - I view working a job you don't like because you have to as lowering the standard of living, not raising it.


Great, so you used a lot of words to do nothing to back up your point. Let's look at some of the other factors in standard of living.

UN Human Development Index
US - 12th
France - 10th
Germany - 22th

Human Poverty Index (1st is poorest)
France - 193rd
Germany - 195th
(The US was not listed in the top or bottom 10)

Economist quality of life index
US - 7.615
France - 7.084
Germany - 7.048

Average household income (in USD)
US - $48,000
Germany - $77,000
France - [can't find a reliable source]




So it's pretty close between all three countries, but I see absolutely no evidence of the extreme jealousy you insist exists.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

Those statistics are based on income inequality, which I mentioned.

As for income, I'm not sure where you are getting 50,000 Euros per person, that seems inflated and inaccurate. What I saw via google was that the average German tourist made that much. Even if it were true, that would mean Americans and Germans have the same income- as one dollar is equal to one Euro in their domestic markets. You can buy a lot more food with $100US at an American grocery store than you can with $100 Canadian in Canada, even though they trade about equally. Finally, there is the issue of cost of living. Germany is densely populated, far more than the US. Which means it costs more to live there (not to mention to buy food and oil, as so much is imported).. just as in the US (Manhattan versus Kansas)... so the standards are complicated and subjective.

I think you and I have both conceded that neither of the countries are 'better' than the other. Whatever statistics we pull out are subjective. Regardless, I never said that Germans and French were jealous of Americans because we have more money on average or a better standard of life. I was responding to your comment that pretty much compared the US to a third world nation in comparison to Germany or France.

As far as the matter of not working a job you don't like, it comes at an extreme cost. Obviously, it means there is more than twice our unemployment and higher taxes. But it also means that they have to constantly bring in immigrants from third world nations to fill those jobs. These people suffer under a system that offers them little chance for opportunity or advancement. They suffer under a legal version similiar to the social status of illegal aliens in the US. While our system of illegal immigration is fixable (and will be resolved as Mexico strengthens), theirs is not. Their economy relies on people willing to do jobs no one wants. The US relies on the economy to fill those jobs.

 

[FatBurger]

Then why are French and Germans jealous of the US?

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

Then why are French and Germans jealous of the US?

The reason why some Germans and French are jealous and/or hateful has already been explained. Nevertheless, once again- it is because the US has power, both by its economy and military. The US military dominated the European continent and community during the Cold War.

Look at the rhetoric of the anti-US politicians (who are now losing)... their speeches are hateful towards the US and it is power based.