Obama floats idea of mandatory voting

[Sumwear]

I say three cheers for compulsory voting!

I say one finger for it.

Of course its feasible.

I have voted in the past and it wasn't a quick process. I just see it further being burdensome.

Then they can each fix it and each needs to.

why? states also have their own elections.

so you can do it for people at home

we already do that.

That [the two-part-fix-up] isn't a reason against compulsory voting.

actually, it's a very good reason. when other parties become relevant would I maybe consider mandatory voting.

Wrong. Participation in the process is never wasted. And, in fact, the number of informal votes cast isn't very high.

with the two parties running amok here? no, it's a wasted vote.

The right to vote is worse than useless if not everybody can vote. It gives power to those who can and not those who cannot.

but who is saying people don't vote because they can't? if anything, it's because they don't want to.

 

[football5680]

Jury service is an obligation. Voting seems to me quite similar. I see no reason for not saying it's also an obligation.

So we should force people to do something they don't feel like doing? If they don't want to vote then why force them?

 

[MoreCoffee]

So we should force people to do something they don't feel like doing? If they don't want to vote then why force them?

Governments force people to do jury duty, in times of war they force people to fight, and they force people to pay taxes. One would think you'd be used to being forced by now.

 

[Sumwear]

Governments force people to do jury duty, in times of war they force people to fight, and they force people to pay taxes. One would think you'd be used to being forced by now.

with regards to jury duty, if you exude any bias, you will not be selected for jury duty. if you have a medical condition, you too could be exempt from jury duty. also, jury duty actually compensates jurors with money. the draft also has a cutoff point with regards to age and any medical condition that one may have. also, the draft still has left a sour taste for a lot of people. for both those who had to serve and for those who fled. actually, you can limit on the taxes you pay if you allocate a certain percentage of your income to various charities.

 

[MoreCoffee]

with regards to jury duty, if you exude any bias, you will not be selected for jury duty. if you have a medical condition, you too could be exempt from jury duty. also, jury duty actually compensates jurors with money. the draft also has a cutoff point with regards to age and any medical condition that one may have. also, the draft still has left a sour taste for a lot of people. for both those who had to serve and for those who fled. actually, you can limit on the taxes you pay if you allocate a certain percentage of your income to various charities.

If you're concerned about mobility and illness etcetera then the laws for compulsory voting can include those exemptions too. It's not as if the law writers are too stupid to know about such things, right?

 

[Sumwear]

If you're concerned about mobility and illness etcetera then the laws for compulsory voting can include those exemptions too. It's not as if the law writers are too stupid to know about such things, right?

I'm not concerned about mobility and illnesses. I just think if one doesn't want to vote then they shouldn't. same thing with countries that make people serve in the military for a few years, I also don't think that should come stateside.

 

[ebia]

Many people also try to get out of jury duty. Why force the same system on voting when Millions of people still come out and vote? We do not have to take advantage of the rights we have if we choose not to.

Because the point of democracy is to represent everyone as fairly as possible. Low particpation is always skewed. If you can get close to 90% it isn't.

If you can achieve that without making it compulsory fine, but if you've got participation rates around 50% or worse your system is badly broken.

 

[ebia]

I have voted in the past and it wasn't a quick process. I just see it further being burdensome.

That's not hard to fix. It should be quick and painless. It took about 5 mins for we to walk to the polling station and about 5 mins to vote last election. If id voted above the line it would have taken a fraction of that. Last federal election took longer but that was because I had was in a foreign country.

why? states also have their own elections.

For the same reasons as above.
We have state and federal elections too.

we already do that.

You just said you didn't.

actually, it's a very good reason. when other parties become relevant would I maybe consider mandatory voting.

No it isn't. Greater particpation makes it more likely to change.

but who is saying people don't vote because they can't?

You did.
You said it was too hard. Needed a day off work. Etc.

 

[ebia]

So we should force people to do something they don't feel like doing? If they don't want to vote then why force them?

Because democracy depends upon it.

We make people do all sorts of things: jury service, pay taxes, educate their kids, drive on a particular side of the road, ... because doing so makes a for a better functioning society.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Voting is easy in this country. I vote absentee and mail my ballots in. So does my wife. Easy as heck. And I have time to read up on each proposition, candidate, and issue.

But in the end, I think we live in an oligarchy with the illusion of democracy. Big corporations, the military-industrial complex, and the banking systems worldwide with financial institutions and lobbyists run the show. Everything is run by oligarchs. We have the illusion of these choices and huge differences. In the end, I think voting is overrated as a beautiful right.

 

[Sumwear]

That's not hard to fix. It should be quick and painless. It took about 5 mins for we to walk to the polling station and about 5 mins to vote last election. If id voted above the line it would have taken a fraction of that. Last federal election took longer but that was because I had was in a foreign country.

it took me over an hour. then you have the anecdotal evidence from various polling stations of people waiting on line, stateside. so what your experience is of voting in australia really has no barring here.

For the same reasons as above.
We have state and federal elections too.

okay.

You just said you didn't.

no, I didn't say one can't mail in their vote.

No it isn't. Greater particpation makes it more likely to change.

not with how the media handles each candidate. not with who gets the media spotlight. not with who gets to throw around that money. people like me who or sick of this two party monopoly are in the minority.

You did.
You said it was too hard. Needed a day off work. Etc.

I said with regards to having a day off on elections. yes, most people can't vote due to how things are now, but that still does not mean I am for mandatory voting, like you.

 

[ebia]

What you are doing isn't, ultimately, about forcing people. The fine here is completely nominal. It changes the culture. It changes it to a society where everyone expects to vote and expects everyone else to vote and therefore you get better particpation in the discussions around that. And it changes the society to one where everyone is enabled to vote - the number of people excluded because the system fails to add them to the roll, or because system makes it too hard, drops to as close to zero as is possible to get.

 

[ebia]

it took me over an hour. then you have the anecdotal evidence from various polling stations of people waiting on line, stateside. so what your experience is of voting in australia really has no barring here.

It has a bearing because if we can make it quick and easy despite our complex electoral system then anyone else can and should. It's hard to make voting quick and easy in South Sudan, but not in South Dakota

no, I didn't say one can't mail in their vote.

You said that you couldn't have compulsory voting because it's too hard to vote.

not with how the media handles each candidate. not with who gets the media spotlight. not with who gets to throw around that money. people like me who or sick of this two party monopoly are in the minority.

There are a lot of people not voting. Most of the "sick of this two party..." Are in that group. Compulsory voting gets people involved and brings about change.

I said with regards to having a day off on elections. yes, most people can't vote due to how things are now, but that still does not mean I am for mandatory voting, like you.

You are flip-flopping.

 

[Sumwear]

It has a bearing because if we can make it quick and easy despite our complex electoral system then anyone else can and should. It's hard to make voting quick and easy in South Sudan, but not in South Dakota

with all due respect, when has australia become the gold standard? would you also be up for it if people also had to serve in the military as they do in israel and switzerland? we don't force either. same as other western countries. don't like it, well, tough luck.

You said that you couldn't have compulsory voting because it's too hard to vote.

due to a majority still going to polling stations. a few states still require a person to show up to hand in their absentee ballot.

There are a lot of people not voting. Most of the "sick of this two party..." Are in that group. Compulsory voting gets people involved and brings about change.

and their vote, again, goes towards the parties that don't measure up to snuff.

You are flip-flopping.

flip-flopping? if you can't differentiate between giving a people a day off on election day [which we don't] and mandatory voting, then we have nothing further to discuss.

 

[ebia]

with all due respect, when has australia become the gold standard?

What is it about some Americans that they are so unwilling to consider that their country might learn something from the experience of others.

Australian politics is far from perfect. But we have overcome some of your complaints about voting in your country, and we have shown that compulsory voting is not burdensome and does have benefits.

due to a majority still going to polling stations. a few states still require a person to show up to hand in their absentee ballot.

Either it's too hard to vote, or it's not.
IF it is, that needs fixing regardless of compulsory voting, because it's denying some their right to vote and distorting the outcome,
And then either it's fixed or it never needed fixing so it's not a reason for not having compulsory voting.

and their vote, again, goes towards the parties that don't measure up to snuff.

No. They can vote for an independent or minor party, or submit an informal vote (ie a spoilt paper). Either way:
A. They have engaged, before during and after in the process
B. They have registered their discontent in a positive way

Those two things work towards change.

 

[Sumwear]

What is it about some Americans that they are so unwilling to consider that their country might learn something from the experience of others.

except we're still following in the footsteps of others and others also don't have problems having people either vote or not. the only differential between those countries and the u.s. is that those countries have new parties come into fruition if a ruling party does something bad. that's a great thing. we're still stuck with two parties having a whole lotta sway. a very bad thing.

Either it's too hard to vote, or it's not.
IF it is, that needs fixing regardless of compulsory voting, because it's denying some their right to vote and distorting the outcome,
And then either it's fixed or it never needed fixing so it's not a reason for not having compulsory voting.

in the major urban areas, it's not too much of a smooth process and I most definitely don't see it getting better if we were to have everyone vote.

No. They can vote for an independent or minor party, or submit an informal vote (ie a spoilt paper). Either way:
A. They have engaged, before during and after in the process
B. They have registered their discontent in a positive way


Those two things work towards change.

it's still a meaningless vote. republican and democrat votes cannibalize all those other votes and I don't see that being rectified with compulsory voting. you'll definitely see an upswing for those other parties, though.

just that you'll also see it for the democrats and republicans. at the end of the day, who gets the attention? for whom are most of the primaries geared at? who has the money?

 

[ebia]

except we're still following in the footsteps of others and others also don't have problems having people either vote or not.

You do have a problem - you have very low participation which means very poor representation.

the only differential between those countries and the u.s. is that those countries have new parties come into fruition if a ruling party does something bad. that's a great thing. we're still stuck with two parties having a whole lotta sway. a very bad thing.

Thats made worse by low participation, which pushes the participation further down in a vicious spiral.

in the major urban areas, it's not too much of a smooth process and I most definitely don't see it getting better if we were to have everyone vote.

compulsory voting isn't going to make it better.
But it does need to be made better, and it easily can be made better.
And compulsory voting at least provides extra imputus for doing so

it's still a meaningless vote. republican and democrat votes cannibalize all those other votes and I don't see that being rectified with compulsory voting. you'll definitely see an upswing for those other parties, though.

just that you'll also see it for the democrats and republicans. at the end of the day, who gets the attention? for whom are most of the primaries geared at? who has the money?

The only way those things can get any better is increased participation.
Participation doesn't just mean turning up on the day and marking a bit of paper with a pencil. Thats the bit thats compulsory. But making that compulsory gets more people involved in the discussion before, during and after the election itself. (and not just in chanting "[x] is evil" as 50% of american political "conversation" appears to be) And that has influence.

 

[football5680]

Because democracy depends upon it.

We make people do all sorts of things: jury service, pay taxes, educate their kids, drive on a particular side of the road, ... because doing so makes a for a better functioning society.

If somebody doesn't care about voting then they have basically cast a vote for both candidates. If they strongly preferred one candidate over another then they would have voted. If we don't agree with either candidates views why should we be forced to choose? We should have the option of leaving the ballot blank and the people who do not vote have done just that.

 

[ebia]

If somebody doesn't care about voting then they have basically cast a vote for both candidates. If they strongly preferred one candidate over another then they would have voted. If we don't agree with either candidates views why should we be forced to choose? We should have the option of leaving the ballot blank and the people who do not vote have done just that.

Well, no. There's a big difference between marking a no vote, and not bothering to go to the poll at all. Perhaps one has to have lived with both systems to see that, but it's clear as daylight if you have. And it's born out by the figures - most people in Australia do cast a proper vote, giving Australia a much higher voter participation than just about anywhere in the western world.

 

[LoAmmi]

One can organise a postal vote in advance or an early vote, but what sort of "can't vote on Saturday" did you have in mind?

Well, I wouldn't be able to vote on a Saturday. Such an activity would be forbidden because it was Shabbat.