Obama extends support for protesters

[mpok1519]

Sure, I guess.

*Bill Gate's grandfather was a wealthy banker.

he probably doesn't understand that the vast majority of wealth in the world is "old money", from those who inherited it.

 

[Umaro]

Where did you get "unstableness" and "wealth disparity" argument from? It's unstable because politicians like play the class warfare and demonized the opposition.

Why the growing wealth inequality matters | CanadianBusiness.com

Here is a great article on the subject.

Of course there's envy. That's what socialism is all about. I came from a socialist country and if you're richer than your neighbor, watch out. You better not let them know or else you risk losing it by way of corrupt politicians/cops/etc. They are basically informants.

Again, if you think capitalism/free market is like this one big pie, then you have no idea what capitalism is all about. There's no pie. Everyone gets to make their own pie instead! And whoever makes the best pie, wins.

That's the issue though. No one makes their own pie. Bill Gates did not personally sit down in his garage and make every PC on the planet. He had a great idea and the drive to carry it out, and he should be rewarded for that. And he is, with billions. But other people helped too. There are thousands of people who worked for Microsoft to make it the success it is. Those people deserve a bit of the success too.

Wal-Mart for instance makes a larger GDP than some nations, why should there be a single person in the company working below the poverty line? The product they're selling is extremely successful, why shouldn't they share in that too, regardless of their work within the corporation?

And just shockingly how little effort it would take to improve things. This study shows for a cost increase of about $1 a month to you the customer they could raise over 100,000 full time workers out of poverty. I can't see a reason not to do that.

 

[jsn112]

yknow you can do your own independent research as to why child acting is legal and why a 6 y/o fry-cook is not. Instead of asking random internet people, mr hitler as my handle-tag.

The "kid" working was a hypocritical example of the of the law.

BTW, Hitler from my handle is to show you socialists that he is one of you! He used what a good socialist politician has always used -- class warfare.

 

[jsn112]

he probably doesn't understand that the vast majority of wealth in the world is "old money", from those who inherited it.

Bill Gates didn't inherit his money. He didn't need to. He made all his money. He's a college drop-out to start his company with his buddies. Do you even know his story at all to even use the "Old money" line?

 

[jsn112]

Sure, I guess.

*Bill Gate's grandfather was a wealthy banker.

Let me repeat it one more time. He did not I-N-H-E-R-I-T his money. Inherit means that his family left him with "Old money," according to the other poster, Mpok1519. It doesn't matter how much money his family had. If Bill Gates came from the slum, he would STILL have made it big. Why would a billionaire needing an inheritance? Bill Gates is a very good businessman. Moreso than a computer genius guy. He put his ideas together and sell it to the public in a free market and made billions.

Again, you made me laugh trying to "educate" me, a computer guy myself!!!

 

[jsn112]

Why the growing wealth inequality matters | CanadianBusiness.com

Here is a great article on the subject.





That's the issue though. No one makes their own pie. Bill Gates did not personally sit down in his garage and make every PC on the planet. He had a great idea and the drive to carry it out, and he should be rewarded for that. And he is, with billions. But other people helped too. There are thousands of people who worked for Microsoft to make it the success it is. Those people deserve a bit of the success too.

Wal-Mart for instance makes a larger GDP than some nations, why should there be a single person in the company working below the poverty line? The product they're selling is extremely successful, why shouldn't they share in that too, regardless of their work within the corporation?

And just shockingly how little effort it would take to improve things. This study shows for a cost increase of about $1 a month to you the customer they could raise over 100,000 full time workers out of poverty. I can't see a reason not to do that.

This article is garbage. The last line says it all: "Sooner than later, all of these bills are going to come due."

The government is spending like a drunk sailor; and when the money runs out, the bills are going to come due? Why is it the rich is the problem but not the government when there's not enough money to pay to bill when the government is spending the tax payers money like drunk sailor?

And instead of pulling back on spending, the politicians (a liberal) plays the class warfare game by blaming the rich. Please explain why?

 

[mpok1519]

The "kid" working was a hypocritical example of the of the law.

So, a child working in a diaper commercial is analogous with a ten year-old forced to work in a coal mine?


Howabout you just go do some independent research as to why its okay for babies to star in baby-food commercials, and why its not okay to force a kid to work in a factory. I bet you'll change your mind.

BTW, Hitler from my handle is to show you socialists that he is one of you! He used what a good socialist politician has always used -- class warfare.

You don't need politicians for class warfare; class warfare would exist in even the most puritanical free-enterprise capitalist privatized societies, without the help of socialism.

Using Hitler is just you making a godwin fallacy.

 

[mpok1519]

Let me repeat it one more time. He did not I-N-H-E-R-I-T his money. Inherit means that his family left him with "Old money," according to the other poster, Mpok1519. It doesn't matter how much money his family had. If Bill Gates came from the slum, he would STILL have made it big. Why would a billionaire needing an inheritance? Bill Gates is a very good businessman. Moreso than a computer genius guy. He put his ideas together and sell it to the public in a free market and made billions.

Again, you made me laugh trying to "educate" me, a computer guy myself!!!

Ah yes, the almighty history revisionist. Bravo. Next you can perhaps predict the future. Oh tell us mighty seer, who will win the super bowl?

 

[mpok1519]

Ignorance? Really? You think company B is better than company A based on environmental? What makes you think company B is better for the environment? It's your ignorance that makes you think company B is better for the environment than company A. Both companies usually use almost the same source for the raw materials. You think if the label says it's made in the USA that everything in it is actually made in USA? If that's what you think, then I have a bridge to sell you.

You seriously either didn't read that paragraph, or you inserted your own words for mine. You can't sell a bridge that you burned to the ground yourself.

Wrong again. It was the people who was conducting the POLL who was posing these questions to the protesters. Police had nothing to do with it. Let me repeat it again slowly: it was a P-O-L-L.

And let me say it again; police are the ones who have been committing the majority of violence against protesters. And they didn't need to take a poll; they just maced and brutalized people for no reason.

Sure it is. Of course the liberals in the US are envious of the rich.

I dont think people (of any politicial affiliation) are envious of the rich; people in the lower class would simply like a better opportunity to make more money, and those opportunities are extremely hard to come by for many in the lower class.

Why do you think they want to get the politicians to raise the taxes on them.

Because that money would help balance the budget, of course.

With the way the government is spending, raising the tax on rich by 50% won't even make a dent on the "problem." If it won't make a dent, why advocating it in the first place? Have you worked out or seen the numbers at all? Doesn't sound like you have.

So, even though every bit helps (and the rich wouldn't even feel the extra tax, they'd still be able to live extremely comfortably and happily), you're saying it doesn't?

Then you're delusional. Do you think Bill Gates or Steve Jobs or Jim McCann and etc. inherited their money? They made it big because they had ideas and they put it in the market and people liked it and bought them. That's how capitalism/free market works. They couldn't do it in... let's say...Cuba... right now, and that's the difference. Understand?

You're delusional if you think every cinderella story will apply to everyone.

You're weak minded if an advertisement made you do anything. Are you weak minded? Now that explains as to why you and the liberals want the government to take care of you.

Where did you get that idea? you're just spewing words out now.

 

[Autumnleaf]

Let me repeat it one more time. He did not I-N-H-E-R-I-T his money. Inherit means that his family left him with "Old money," according to the other poster, Mpok1519. It doesn't matter how much money his family had. If Bill Gates came from the slum, he would STILL have made it big. Why would a billionaire needing an inheritance? Bill Gates is a very good businessman. Moreso than a computer genius guy. He put his ideas together and sell it to the public in a free market and made billions.

Again, you made me laugh trying to "educate" me, a computer guy myself!!!

If Bill Gates came from the slums then someone with money would have bought controlling interest of Bills's ideas, oh thats right they weren't all Bill's ideas (Dun dun dunn!) so Bill would not have been able to get it together in the first place. Bill actually bought the original dos from a guy. Admit it. Bill had connections. Crack open a book if you don't believe me. Bill wasn't the genius. He was a piece in the Microsoft puzzle. Look into his peers and see how poorer they were than Bill. Then put 2 and 2 together and understand why its all about Bill Gates now.

I've got Mpok on ignore, have for at least a year or so, he must have said something I thought was annoying or asinine or both.

 

[jsn112]

So, a child working in a diaper commercial is analogous with a ten year-old forced to work in a coal mine?


Howabout you just go do some independent research as to why its okay for babies to star in baby-food commercials, and why its not okay to force a kid to work in a factory. I bet you'll change your mind.

You're using a lot of assumptions there. When did I ever say anything about factories or coal mines? Way to use hyperbolies there. All I said was working. I did, however, mentioned McDonald's. You don't think a twelve year old can work at McDonald's or a local supermarket? People of mental disabilities are currently working at those places, but a twelve year old can't? Is that what you're saying?

You don't need politicians for class warfare; class warfare would exist in even the most puritanical free-enterprise capitalist privatized societies, without the help of socialism.

Using Hitler is just you making a godwin fallacy.

The people who advocate class warfare is created out of jealousy and envious, i.e., the poor. The rich have used class warfare out of guilt. Believe it or not, Bill Gates is a socialist even though he made his money through capitalism. Same with Michael Moore. Moore is the worse kind, btw. Moore advocates a socialist/communist system like Cuba, but he made his money through capitalism! Why? There has been suggestions such as white-guilt. Just look at Hollywood celebrities who have made millions upon millions and a majority of them are socialists/communists. They are all capitalists as any because they all want to make as much money as they can per film. But since they are white-guilt driven and they are actually advocating socialism. That's fact! Same with Warren Buffet. He made his money through capitalist system. If companies don't grow, his portfolio would not have billions of dollars. Why in the world is he advocating for higher tax on capital gains and other corporate and personal earnings? That will kill his portfolio! Simple answer to that is white-guilt.

All of these rich people advocating for socialism is not doing the society any good. Can you name how many socialist/communist countries have prospered?

 

[jsn112]

If Bill Gates came from the slums then someone with money would have bought controlling interest of Bills's ideas, oh thats right they weren't all Bill's ideas (Dun dun dunn!) so Bill would not have been able to get it together in the first place. Bill actually bought the original dos from a guy. Admit it. Bill had connections. Crack open a book if you don't believe me. Bill wasn't the genius. He was a piece in the Microsoft puzzle. Look into his peers and see how poorer they were than Bill. Then put 2 and 2 together and understand why its all about Bill Gates now.

I've got Mpok on ignore, have for at least a year or so, he must have said something I thought was annoying or asinine or both.

I'm ignoring Mpok now because his argument is senseless.

Which argument are you disagreeing with me? Sounds like you're repeating what I said. I said Bill was more business savvy than computer; and he and his buddies built MS that it is today. So, where are you disagreeing with me? Did you want me to go into details of his life with you? Besides, Bill Gates is one of the names I listed. He is not the main point of my argument. My main point is capitalism. I can list so much more of who have made their money through capitalism besides Bill Gates. Way to distract the main point, btw.

 

[Awesome_Frog]

President Obama's support of the Occupy Wall Street Protests, in my opinion, is nothing but a political move. He wants to convince the democrats that he is willing to fight for the common man down on their luck. Though I don't really believe that based on his track record.

The man has promised a universal health care system, but instead made a system where the government pays private insurance companies a subside in exchange for "lower" costs and some more regulation to disallow preexisting conditions being a factor for insurance termination. This is not what many voted for.

The president also made a deal about how he would do Roosevelt style spending to get us out of the recession. Instead he signed bailouts that gave money to private businesses and gave American's advances on their tax returns. This is not FDR spending. FDR spent money on infrastructure such as roads, social security, Medicare, rail system, etc. This way the nation would have a solid base to expand from. Obama is not deficit spending to eventually get a pay back, he's spending and hoping we don't get shafted. Which we are.

I can also go into how Obama has flip flopped on his military and foreign policy, but that is a long one. To sum it up, he said he'd bring our soldiers home from Iraq, stabilize Afghanistan, and close GB. Guess what hasn't happened? Oh, and you don't end wars by sending troops to other nations.

The only thing he stood by was helping out the LGBT by helping to end Don't ask Don't tell, and help with Hate Crime legislation to be expanded to the LGBT.

Otherwise, he hasn't been a decent president.

 

[Awesome_Frog]

I'd also like to point out some things that I agree and disagree with the Protesters about.

I am envious of the 1%. I'm not going to lie. I don't think simply taxing the rich will help though. Unless we know exactly what the money will be spent on.

I don't think the minimum wage is the issue in this country, because simply raising the minimum wage will only cause most of the very companies that are neglecting us now to just pass the bill onto the customer in the long run.

I agree that there needs to be education reform, mainly because there is a point that many of the college kids are making. In the united states, for a lot of jobs an employer wants to see that the applicant has a degree in the field they want to study. That is why so many students enroll, because our culture pushes and expects kids to go on to college. The problem is that the cost has increased dramatically that its almost not worth the expense. This causes the students to gain huge debts and when the student finally graduates and receives a job ( if they even can in this economy) the cost is usually met with very little pay off. So yes, this needs to be adressed. There is also the issue of companies going outside the US because there are better options in European countries where the cost of college isn't as large, so there are more people graduating in the fields the companies want. This is due to cost.


I'm also envious because of Medical systems. Right now I'm in my twenties and trying to get by and its tough in this economy and at a starting position, and student loans on my shoulders. I'm having a hard time being able to afford even bare bones insurance through my work. If any emergency was to happen, this meaning a car crash, a work accident, someone attacking me for a random reasons, or contracting an illness could end up causing me to go into extreme debt. I already have massive debt from school and a car payment I acquired so I could get to school. I don't think I could handle a medical expense. Heck I stopped taking my blood pressure meds, not because I'm better, but because I couldn't afford to buy the prescription, or afford the doctors appointments to get it switched to a cheaper alternative. So yes, I would like for a government option that is open to the general public to sign on to.


That's my rant. Not to greedy, just something most western nations have managed to figure out by now.

 

[Awesome_Frog]

Life isn't fair. So deal with it.

Nothing but an excuse to ignore legitimate problems. I'm not even going to try and answer the rest of your post to me, since the majority of it was you shoving words in my mouth and just repeating rhetoric, or over simplifying the issue while skewing facts.

 

[Umaro]

This article is garbage. The last line says it all: "Sooner than later, all of these bills are going to come due."

God forbid you address any points it makes or anything.

The people who advocate class warfare is created out of jealousy and envious, i.e., the poor. The rich have used class warfare out of guilt. Believe it or not, Bill Gates is a socialist even though he made his money through capitalism. Same with Michael Moore. Moore is the worse kind, btw. Moore advocates a socialist/communist system like Cuba, but he made his money through capitalism! Why? There has been suggestions such as white-guilt. Just look at Hollywood celebrities who have made millions upon millions and a majority of them are socialists/communists. They are all capitalists as any because they all want to make as much money as they can per film. But since they are white-guilt driven and they are actually advocating socialism. That's fact! Same with Warren Buffet. He made his money through capitalist system. If companies don't grow, his portfolio would not have billions of dollars. Why in the world is he advocating for higher tax on capital gains and other corporate and personal earnings? That will kill his portfolio! Simple answer to that is white-guilt.

They're not advocating socialism, at all. Claiming that just shows a strong lack of understanding for the term. What they are advocating is a more even distribution of wealth in society, mostly through a more fair payout to work.

Let's do a thought experiment. You decide you're going to start a moving company. You round up 9 of your friends, schedule the first job yourself, and rent a truck with your own money. Quite the risk taker you are!

You head to the job, and direct your friends on how they should carry the furniture into the truck. Then you act as navigator while they drive to the next location, then you tell them how to carry it out of the truck.

Your new business was a success! After paying back the truck you have $100 in profit for the 10 of you. You now take $70 for yourself, and give the other 9 people $30 to split amongst themselves. This happens for several jobs. Finally, when the other 9 workers stand up and ask for a bit more reasonable share, you accuse them of envy, and say they should work hard like you do.

That's what's happened over the last decade with the top 10% taking 70% of all economic growth. That's why the other 90% are upset.

 

[mpok1519]

You're using a lot of assumptions there. When did I ever say anything about factories or coal mines?

You were lumping all labor together; you didn't say it, you implied it.

Way to use hyperbolies there.

That you implied first.

All I said was working.

Are coal mines and factories not places of work?

I did, however, mentioned McDonald's. You don't think a twelve year old can work at McDonald's or a local supermarket? People of mental disabilities are currently working at those places, but a twelve year old can't? Is that what you're saying?

I wouldn't want a kid playing around a hot-oil fry cooker; I would want a kid worrying about doing what they should be doing; being a kid. Going to school. Doing their homework. Playing with other kids. Doing kid things, not making me a big-mac.

The people who advocate class warfare is created out of jealousy and envious, i.e., the poor.

I don't think you can be jealous or envious if you're poor; wanting to be able to go to college, afford healthcare, and not worrying about being evicted because you made one late payment and now are the victim of egregious and exorbitant interest rate hikes, is not being envious. Its looking out for your best interests as a human being.

I don't think poor people look at the rich and think "hey, I want a pony. and a jet plane. And cheese-fountains." No, they do however would like an opportunity to better theirselves with higher education, and the ability to afford doctor bills.

You obviously have been reading way too much radicalist right wing literature if you think the less fortunate are "envious" of those who have had a silver spoon attached to their face their whole lives.

The rich have used class warfare out of guilt. Believe it or not, Bill Gates is a socialist even though he made his money through capitalism.

You have been reading too much far-right radicalist literature; Bill Gates isn't a socialist although he donates millions to charitable causes.

Same with Michael Moore. Moore is the worse kind, btw. Moore advocates a socialist/communist system like Cuba, but he made his money through capitalism!

Evidence? Proof? Where and when did he say he thinks we should adopt Cuba's economic system? Also, you can't lump socialism together with communism; the two are strikingly different.

Why? There has been suggestions such as white-guilt. Just look at Hollywood celebrities who have made millions upon millions and a majority of them are socialists/communists. They are all capitalists as any because they all want to make as much money as they can per film. But since they are white-guilt driven and they are actually advocating socialism. That's fact! Same with Warren Buffet. He made his money through capitalist system. If companies don't grow, his portfolio would not have billions of dollars. Why in the world is he advocating for higher tax on capital gains and other corporate and personal earnings? That will kill his portfolio! Simple answer to that is white-guilt.

Now race is an issue with you now? Do you hear the crickets applauding your radical views?

All of these rich people advocating for socialism is not doing the society any good. Can you name how many socialist/communist countries have prospered?

China is a pretty good example. Sweden is also one. A good example is socialist/capitalist hybrids like ours that has prospered.