Obadiah is a yet future prophecy.

[Jamdoc]

and I can say this for 100% certainty. It was not fulfilled in the past, descendants of Esau still exist today, they will not after this is fulfilled.

Obadiah 1

1 The vision of Obadiah. Thus saith the Lord God concerning Edom; We have heard a rumour from the Lord, and an ambassador is sent among the heathen, Arise ye, and let us rise up against her in battle.
2 Behold, I have made thee small among the heathen: thou art greatly despised.
3 The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee, thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock, whose habitation is high; that saith in his heart, Who shall bring me down to the ground?
4 Though thou exalt thyself as the eagle, and though thou set thy nest among the stars, thence will I bring thee down, saith the Lord.

This last verse I quoted.. is a description of the Hashemite coat of arms, designed in 1921. Obadiah was written at least 2500 years ago.
this is what it looks like:

An Eagle, on a nest of stars.
You can't make this up.

The book also mentions the Day of the Lord, and I do not believe that is history.

So what does this mean? It means that when Antichrist moves against Israel, Jordan joins Antichrist, and in response they are utterly extirpated, totally wiped out.

 

[keras]

Obadiah 1:15-21 The Day of the Lord is at hand for all the nations, they will be treated as they have treated others and their wrong actions will recoil upon themselves. My people will drink the wine of God’s wrath, then all the nations in turn will drink of it and be devastated by it. But in Jerusalem there will be a holy remnant, the Lord’s people will be like a flame while the House of Esau will be burnt up with no survivors. My [Christian] people will possess all of the holy Land that was given to Abraham and those in Jerusalem who lead My people will control the lands of the Edomites, but the Kingdom belongs to the Lord.

Isaiah 28:21-22 The Lord will arise as He did at Mt Perazim and in the valley of Gibeon, and storm with rage to do what He must do, to perform His task – a strange and alien deed. But now, have done with all arrogance and pride or the Lord will increase His punishment, for destruction is decreed over the whole Land. Jeremiah 10:18

Isaiah 26:10-11 Lord: Your hand is lifted high and Your enemies can’t see Your good will toward Your people. [Let them see and be ashamed.] Let the fire reserved for Your enemies consume them. The wicked are destroyed, they have never learnt justice, they are corrupt and blinded to Your Majesty and power.

Micah 4:11-12 Now, many nations are massed against Israel, they say: Let Zion suffer outrage, we will gloat over their demise. They are unaware of the Lord’s plans, for His purpose is to gather them like sheaves to the threshing floor. Psalms 83

Nahum 1:5 The earth quakes before the Lord, the world and all who live in it are in tumult. Who can stand before His wrath? Who can resist the fury of His anger, poured out as fire? 2 Peter 3:7



‘The Lord will arise and storm with rage, as He did in ancient times’. Jeremiah 30:23-24, Isaiah 51:9

‘His task, strange and alien’. We know God as a God of love, but also of justice and it is just to punish those who do not obey Him and who attack His Land. Isaiah 34:5, Psalms 83:9-18

‘destruction is decreed’. The entire Middle East will be burnt and devastated. Ezekiel 30:3-5, Isaiah 17:1, Amos 1:3-15

‘fire reserved for the Lord’s enemies will consume them, His anger poured out as fire’. A massive sunstrike CME will fulfill all these prophesied effects. Isaiah 30:26-30, Isaiah 66:15-16, Malachi 4:1

‘My people will drink the wine of God’s wrath’. This will be the third ‘swing of the sword’ Ezekiel 21:14, the final judgement/punishment of the Jewish people. Jeremiah 2:9, Ezekiel 24:14 Only a remnant will survive. Romans 9:27

‘now, many nations are massed against Israel’. This perfectly describes the situation today and they want to ‘gloat over her demise’. Psalms 83:1-8

‘The House of Esau, burnt up – no survivors’. Those attacking Israel will be totally wiped out. Zephaniah 3:8, Zephaniah 2:4-5

‘those who lead My people’. Another proof that all this will happen before the Return of Jesus. Jeremiah 30:21, Hosea 1:11

 

[Maria Billingsley]

and I can say this for 100% certainty. It was not fulfilled in the past, descendants of Esau still exist today, they will not after this is fulfilled.

Obadiah 1


This last verse I quoted.. is a description of the Hashemite coat of arms, designed in 1921. Obadiah was written at least 2500 years ago.
this is what it looks like:
View attachment 349955

An Eagle, on a nest of stars.
You can't make this up.

The book also mentions the Day of the Lord, and I do not believe that is history.

So what does this mean? It means that when Antichrist moves against Israel, Jordan joins Antichrist, and in response they are utterly extirpated, totally wiped out.

This scenario is not possible. Our Lord said this:

Because of the violence against your brother Jacob,
you will be covered with shame;
you will be destroyed forever.

The Edomites do not exist anymore.

Be blessed.

 

[Jamdoc]

This scenario is not possible. Our Lord said this:

Because of the violence against your brother Jacob,
you will be covered with shame;
you will be destroyed forever.

The Edomites do not exist anymore.

Be blessed.

They do exist, the Hashemites are their descendants.
That is why their coat of arms is the thing described by the Prophet, an Eagle on a nest of stars.
Arabs all trace their lineage to Ishmael, Ishmael's daughters married Esau.

Genesis 25

29 And Jacob sod pottage: and Esau came from the field, and he was faint:
30 And Esau said to Jacob, Feed me, I pray thee, with that same red pottage; for I am faint: therefore was his name called Edom.

Esau is Edom, and the patriarch of the Edomites

Genesis 28

6 When Esau saw that Isaac had blessed Jacob, and sent him away to Padanaram, to take him a wife from thence; and that as he blessed him he gave him a charge, saying, Thou shalt not take a wife of the daughers of Canaan;
7 And that Jacob obeyed his father and his mother, and was gone to Padanaram;
8 And Esau seeing that the daughters of Canaan pleased not Isaac his father;
9 Then went Esau unto Ishmael, and took unto the wives which he had Mahalath the daughter of Ishmael Abraham's son, the sister of Nebajoth, to be his wife.

The Edomites are the descendants of Esau, and Ishmael, and their descendants are the Hashemites.

Now your challenge, name the event historically, in which you believe the Day of the Lord was fulfilled already and what killed off all the Edomites
and why didn't Israel possess Jordan, as the Prophecy says they will?

Preterism is a total dead end, and preterists can never produce the historical fulfillments for these old testament prophecies, they just assume old testament = already fulfilled before Christ, because their priests told them it was.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

They do exist, the Hashemites are their descendants.
That is why their coat of arms is the thing described by the Prophet, an Eagle on a nest of stars.
Arabs all trace their lineage to Ishmael, Ishmael's daughters married Esau.

Genesis 25

Esau is Edom, and the patriarch of the Edomites

Genesis 28

The Edomites are the descendants of Esau, and Ishmael, and their descendants are the Hashemites.

Now your challenge, name the event historically, in which you believe the Day of the Lord was fulfilled already and what killed off all the Edomites
and why didn't Israel possess Jordan, as the Prophecy says they will?

Preterism is a total dead end, and preterists can never produce the historical fulfillments for these old testament prophecies, they just assume old testament = already fulfilled before Christ, because their priests told them it was.

Historical view:

The Hashemites, the ruling dynasty of Jordan, don't have a direct connection to the Edomites. Here's why:

• The Edomites faded away as a distinct people around 2,500 years ago.
• The Hashemite family claims descent from Arabia's Prophet Muhammad, living much later in the 7th century AD.

While both groups hail from the general region of Jordan, there's a significant gap in time between them. The modern population of Jordan is likely a mix of various ancient groups, including Edomites, but not solely descended from them.

My comments:

If the Edomites still exist and this is your view then you are saying the prophesy in Obadiah is false. Our Father said "you will be destroyed forever".Best to think this one through more carefully. Forcefully fitting a theological view into scripture is not wise. I'll pray you and others begin to see through this.
Be blessed.

 

[Jamdoc]

Historical view:

The Hashemites, the ruling dynasty of Jordan, don't have a direct connection to the Edomites. Here's why:

• The Edomites faded away as a distinct people around 2,500 years ago.
• The Hashemite family claims descent from Arabia's Prophet Muhammad, living much later in the 7th century AD.

While both groups hail from the general region of Jordan, there's a significant gap in time between them. The modern population of Jordan is likely a mix of various ancient groups, including Edomites, but not solely descended from them.

My comments:

If the Edomites still exist and this is your view then you are saying the prophesy in Obadiah is false. Our Father said "you will be destroyed forever".Best to think this one through more carefully. Forcefully fitting a theological view into scripture is not wise. I'll pray you and others begin to see through this.
Be blessed.

No, I'm not claiming the prophecy is false
I'm claiming that Obadiah wrote prophecy, not history.

You can't name a historical event where:
After the Babylonian captivity, the Edomites get wiped out by Israel and Israel inhabits their lands.

Instead what historically happened is that the Edomites began encroaching on Judea even prior to the Babylonian captivity, and after the Babylonian Captivity were in Judea, and while it was no longer a KINGDOM of Edom, the Edomites still lived in the region that was renamed "Idumea"
Historically these people were forcefully converted to Judaism around 110 BC.
So they still existed, just under a different religion
But the DNA still exists.

Here's you, and many other preterist and historicist's issue:
You assume all old testament prophecies were fulfilled before Christ.
Using that assumption, you declare it was fulfilled, and when asked for evidence you point to the bible with no corroborating evidence and claim that the bible said it would happen so it must have happened.

You never look at it as the bible said it will happen, it hasn't happened yet, and therefore it WILL happen. Too many secular scholars do not believe that the bible can contain prophecy, and so they assume that the prophets were writing about things that had already happened, but used language as if it was yet future, essentially most scholars will date every book of the bible that talks about the Babylonian captivity as being written AFTER the Babylonian captivity, because they do not believe that the bible can tell the future. They believe Daniel had to be written in like 100 BC because it describes events well after the Babylonian captivity, and so they reject the idea that a prophet during the Babylonian captivity could predict that.
The same thing unfortunately happens in the Church.

People believe that the bible can't predict the future, only give dramatic explanations of the past.

I'm not saying that Obadiah isn't a true prophet. Oh I believe he is a true prophet, and more true than you would know. The fact that the prophecy describes the modern Kingdom of Jordan's emblem and ruling family's coat of arms, and corroborates with passages like Isaiah 34 (predicting the Lord coming down from heaven and slaughtering in Idumea), Isaiah 63 (showing Jesus returning from Edom and Bozrah with His clothes dipped in the blood of the Edomites), and Daniel 11 (where Ammon, Moab, and Edom (the areas that are the modern Kingdom of Jordan) leave Antichrist's confederacy), says that it's a yet future prophecy and will be played out when Messiah returns.

What all these passages say is that Jordan will betray Israel (they're currently in a peace treaty with them), take Israel captive (note not Babylon, but the captives will be in Jordan), but then leave Antichrist's confederacy, and then Jesus will come back, head to Jordan, free the captives, and utterly destroy Jordan, to where none of the Hashemites or Bedouins exist anymore, totally wiped out.

That's why Jesus is covered in blood in Isaiah 63 and Revelation 19, because of the slaughter predicted in Isaiah 34, and Obadiah, and Revelation 14.

I believe this because the bible says it will happen, it hasn't happened yet that can be corroborated with historical evidence or any historical claims are littered with inconsistencies with the biblical narrative that suggest "that wasn't it"

 

[keras]

Isaiah 63 (showing Jesus returning from Edom and Bozrah with His clothes dipped in the blood of the Edomites), and Daniel 11 (where Ammon, Moab, and Edom (the areas that are the modern Kingdom of Jordan) leave Antichrist's confederacy), says that it's a yet future prophecy and will be played out when Messiah returns.

This will happen at the Sixth Seal event, some years before the glorious Return; when He comes already splashed in blood. Rev 19:13

Isaiah 34:5-8 The Lord has a Day of vengeance, the Redeemer of Zion has a time for retribution. His sword will appear in the sky, see how it descends in judgement onto a people whom the Lord has doomed to destruction. Great will be the slaughter in Edom and He has a sacrifice in Bozrah, His sword of punishment will be sated with blood, the earth will drink deeply of their blood.

Isaiah 63:1-6 Who is this, coming from Bozrah and Edom with His garments splashed with blood, striding along in His mighty power? It is the Lord, proclaiming victory, He who is strong to save. He treads the winepress of the nations, with no one to help Him. He tramples them in His fury, shatters them in His anger and spills their blood all over the ground. The Lord has resolved on a Day of vengeance, because the year for redeeming His own has come. Paralleled by Revelation 14:17-20

Jeremiah 49:12-13 & 22 These are the Words of the Lord: Those who were not doomed to drink the cup of My wrath, must drink it none the less: are you alone to go unpunished? You will not be spared, I will judge you as well. I will swoop down upon Bozrah and on that Day, Edom will lose all their strength. I swear that Bozrah will become desolate, an object of reproach and all her towns will be ruined forever. [Not for all time, see: Ezekiel 36:33-36, Isaiah 61:4] Amos 1:12 I shall send fire to consume the palaces of Bozrah. Ref: REB, NIV.


Bozrah – Hebrew = a sheepfold, also means: glad tidings. At present Bozrah can be identified as the place where the true descendants of Jacob currently side.

Edom – the descendants of Esau, a metaphor for non-Israelite peoples. Edom may represent every other nationality of the world.

‘The Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath’, Cannot the same Day as the Return of the Messiah. He will not be seen on His terrible Day of fiery wrath.

Psalms 11:4-6, Rev. 6:12-17, Isaiah 2:12-21, Isaiah 13:9-13, Isaiah 61:2b, Isaiah 66:15-16, Ezekiel 30:1-3, Joel 2:11 &31, Micah 5:15, Nahum 1:2-6, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Malachi 4:1, Romans 1:18, 2 Peter 3:7 & 10 It will be the Sixth Seal event, Revelation 6:12-17

‘His sword appears in the sky and descends in judgement’, Isaiah 30:25-28, Jeremiah 4:20-28, Jeremiah 23:19, Jeremiah 47:6-7, Jeremiah 50:35-38, Ezekiel 21:3-7 & 14-16

‘He treads the winepress of the nations’, Revelation 14:17-20, Jeremiah 9:21-22, Jeremiah 25:30-33, Jeremiah 49:35-37, Habakkuk 3:12, Psalm 65:1-3

‘I shall send fire’, Ezekiel 20:46-48, Joel 1:19-20, Amos 1:4,7,10,12,14. Amos 2:2,5. Obadiah 1:18, Zephaniah 3:8, Hebrews 10:27

‘I will judge you as well’, Ezekiel 23:32-34, Obadiah 1:16, Jeremiah 30:11, Ezekiel 7:1-27, Hosea 4:1-3, Hosea 12:2, Amos 4:12

‘The year for redeeming My own has come’, We are nearing the end of this age, the Lord will take action in His creation, as He did so long ago: in the days of Noah. Isaiah 66:15-16, Micah 5:10-15, Habakkuk 3:12, Ezekiel 7:14

 

[Jamdoc]

This will happen at the Sixth Seal event, some years before the glorious Return; when He comes already splashed in blood. Rev 19:13

Isaiah 34:5-8 The Lord has a Day of vengeance, the Redeemer of Zion has a time for retribution. His sword will appear in the sky, see how it descends in judgement onto a people whom the Lord has doomed to destruction. Great will be the slaughter in Edom and He has a sacrifice in Bozrah, His sword of punishment will be sated with blood, the earth will drink deeply of their blood.

Isaiah 63:1-6 Who is this, coming from Bozrah and Edom with His garments splashed with blood, striding along in His mighty power? It is the Lord, proclaiming victory, He who is strong to save. He treads the winepress of the nations, with no one to help Him. He tramples them in His fury, shatters them in His anger and spills their blood all over the ground. The Lord has resolved on a Day of vengeance, because the year for redeeming His own has come. Paralleled by Revelation 14:17-20

Jeremiah 49:12-13 & 22 These are the Words of the Lord: Those who were not doomed to drink the cup of My wrath, must drink it none the less: are you alone to go unpunished? You will not be spared, I will judge you as well. I will swoop down upon Bozrah and on that Day, Edom will lose all their strength. I swear that Bozrah will become desolate, an object of reproach and all her towns will be ruined forever. [Not for all time, see: Ezekiel 36:33-36, Isaiah 61:4] Amos 1:12 I shall send fire to consume the palaces of Bozrah. Ref: REB, NIV.


Bozrah – Hebrew = a sheepfold, also means: glad tidings. At present Bozrah can be identified as the place where the true descendants of Jacob currently side.

Edom – the descendants of Esau, a metaphor for non-Israelite peoples. Edom may represent every other nationality of the world.

‘The Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath’, Cannot the same Day as the Return of the Messiah. He will not be seen on His terrible Day of fiery wrath.

Psalms 11:4-6, Rev. 6:12-17, Isaiah 2:12-21, Isaiah 13:9-13, Isaiah 61:2b, Isaiah 66:15-16, Ezekiel 30:1-3, Joel 2:11 &31, Micah 5:15, Nahum 1:2-6, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Malachi 4:1, Romans 1:18, 2 Peter 3:7 & 10 It will be the Sixth Seal event, Revelation 6:12-17

‘His sword appears in the sky and descends in judgement’, Isaiah 30:25-28, Jeremiah 4:20-28, Jeremiah 23:19, Jeremiah 47:6-7, Jeremiah 50:35-38, Ezekiel 21:3-7 & 14-16

‘He treads the winepress of the nations’, Revelation 14:17-20, Jeremiah 9:21-22, Jeremiah 25:30-33, Jeremiah 49:35-37, Habakkuk 3:12, Psalm 65:1-3

‘I shall send fire’, Ezekiel 20:46-48, Joel 1:19-20, Amos 1:4,7,10,12,14. Amos 2:2,5. Obadiah 1:18, Zephaniah 3:8, Hebrews 10:27

‘I will judge you as well’, Ezekiel 23:32-34, Obadiah 1:16, Jeremiah 30:11, Ezekiel 7:1-27, Hosea 4:1-3, Hosea 12:2, Amos 4:12

‘The year for redeeming My own has come’, We are nearing the end of this age, the Lord will take action in His creation, as He did so long ago: in the days of Noah. Isaiah 66:15-16, Micah 5:10-15, Habakkuk 3:12, Ezekiel 7:14

the glorious return is shortly after the 6th seal. He's already dipped in blood in Revelation 19, He has already been on Earth treading the winepress of His wrath. That's what Isaiah 63 shows.

 

[Grip Docility]

No, I'm not claiming the prophecy is false
I'm claiming that Obadiah wrote prophecy, not history.

You can't name a historical event where:
After the Babylonian captivity, the Edomites get wiped out by Israel and Israel inhabits their lands.

Instead what historically happened is that the Edomites began encroaching on Judea even prior to the Babylonian captivity, and after the Babylonian Captivity were in Judea, and while it was no longer a KINGDOM of Edom, the Edomites still lived in the region that was renamed "Idumea"
Historically these people were forcefully converted to Judaism around 110 BC.
So they still existed, just under a different religion
But the DNA still exists.

Here's you, and many other preterist and historicist's issue:
You assume all old testament prophecies were fulfilled before Christ.
Using that assumption, you declare it was fulfilled, and when asked for evidence you point to the bible with no corroborating evidence and claim that the bible said it would happen so it must have happened.

You never look at it as the bible said it will happen, it hasn't happened yet, and therefore it WILL happen. Too many secular scholars do not believe that the bible can contain prophecy, and so they assume that the prophets were writing about things that had already happened, but used language as if it was yet future, essentially most scholars will date every book of the bible that talks about the Babylonian captivity as being written AFTER the Babylonian captivity, because they do not believe that the bible can tell the future. They believe Daniel had to be written in like 100 BC because it describes events well after the Babylonian captivity, and so they reject the idea that a prophet during the Babylonian captivity could predict that.
The same thing unfortunately happens in the Church.

People believe that the bible can't predict the future, only give dramatic explanations of the past.

I'm not saying that Obadiah isn't a true prophet. Oh I believe he is a true prophet, and more true than you would know. The fact that the prophecy describes the modern Kingdom of Jordan's emblem and ruling family's coat of arms, and corroborates with passages like Isaiah 34 (predicting the Lord coming down from heaven and slaughtering in Idumea), Isaiah 63 (showing Jesus returning from Edom and Bozrah with His clothes dipped in the blood of the Edomites), and Daniel 11 (where Ammon, Moab, and Edom (the areas that are the modern Kingdom of Jordan) leave Antichrist's confederacy), says that it's a yet future prophecy and will be played out when Messiah returns.

What all these passages say is that Jordan will betray Israel (they're currently in a peace treaty with them), take Israel captive (note not Babylon, but the captives will be in Jordan), but then leave Antichrist's confederacy, and then Jesus will come back, head to Jordan, free the captives, and utterly destroy Jordan, to where none of the Hashemites or Bedouins exist anymore, totally wiped out.

That's why Jesus is covered in blood in Isaiah 63 and Revelation 19, because of the slaughter predicted in Isaiah 34, and Obadiah, and Revelation 14.

I believe this because the bible says it will happen, it hasn't happened yet that can be corroborated with historical evidence or any historical claims are littered with inconsistencies with the biblical narrative that suggest "that wasn't it"

Preterism is a Satan breathed doctrine that hides visual evidence of Faith that would unbind many from the kingdom of darkness. We are surrounded by biblical truths, all around us… and this staunch denial that fights against this visual proof is unknowingly hiding things that God has given us to show that The word of OUR LIVING Word is True and valid.

 

[Jamdoc]

Preterism is a Satan breathed doctrine that hides visual evidence of Faith that would unbind many from the kingdom of darkness. We are surrounded by biblical truths, all around us… and this staunch denial that fights against this visual proof is unknowingly hiding things that God has given us to show that The word of OUR LIVING Word is True and valid.

That's what I see too.
The fact that Obadiah just.. quite literally calls out the Hashemites is like "wow, the bible predicted the symbol of the modern state of Jordan 2500 years ago? This bolsters my faith"
I was taught all this historical fulfillment baloney years and years ago, and I found historical inaccuracies and events that could not be corroborated and you know what it did? It shipwrecked me it shipwrecked me for a long time. It made God seem to be impotent and the only thing he was capable of was brainwashing people and giving them an opium for the masses to make them psychologically feel better about the corrupt state of the world and their eventual death. Preterism and Historicism's teachings nearly made me an Atheist.

It is looking to a hope in the future that made me realize God is real, and told the end from the beginning, and every word Christ said was true.
It is the fact that the world is currently aligning with what Christ said would happen that affirms that Christ is God.

 

[keras]

the glorious return is shortly after the 6th seal. He's already dipped in blood in Revelation 19, He has already been on Earth treading the winepress of His wrath. That's what Isaiah 63 shows.

You do infer a gap between the Sixth Seal and the Return.
I contend that gap is at least 10 years. Probably 15 -20 years, as Rev 8:1, the 7th Seal tells us. To God and Jesus in heaven; that gap is just a half hour, not enough time to do the washing!

The sequence of events, Seals, Trumpets and Bowls, culminating in the Seventh Bowl - Armageddon; in Revelation cannot be shuffled or rearranged.
The Sixth Seal, the next Prophesied event, will be the reset of the worlds civilization, to a similar degree; as in the days of Noah.

 

[Grip Docility]

This will happen at the Sixth Seal event, some years before the glorious Return; when He comes already splashed in blood. Rev 19:13

Isaiah 34:5-8 The Lord has a Day of vengeance, the Redeemer of Zion has a time for retribution. His sword will appear in the sky, see how it descends in judgement onto a people whom the Lord has doomed to destruction. Great will be the slaughter in Edom and He has a sacrifice in Bozrah, His sword of punishment will be sated with blood, the earth will drink deeply of their blood.

Isaiah 63:1-6 Who is this, coming from Bozrah and Edom with His garments splashed with blood, striding along in His mighty power? It is the Lord, proclaiming victory, He who is strong to save. He treads the winepress of the nations, with no one to help Him. He tramples them in His fury, shatters them in His anger and spills their blood all over the ground. The Lord has resolved on a Day of vengeance, because the year for redeeming His own has come. Paralleled by Revelation 14:17-20

Jeremiah 49:12-13 & 22 These are the Words of the Lord: Those who were not doomed to drink the cup of My wrath, must drink it none the less: are you alone to go unpunished? You will not be spared, I will judge you as well. I will swoop down upon Bozrah and on that Day, Edom will lose all their strength. I swear that Bozrah will become desolate, an object of reproach and all her towns will be ruined forever. [Not for all time, see: Ezekiel 36:33-36, Isaiah 61:4] Amos 1:12 I shall send fire to consume the palaces of Bozrah. Ref: REB, NIV.


Bozrah – Hebrew = a sheepfold, also means: glad tidings. At present Bozrah can be identified as the place where the true descendants of Jacob currently side.

Edom – the descendants of Esau, a metaphor for non-Israelite peoples. Edom may represent every other nationality of the world.

‘The Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath’, Cannot the same Day as the Return of the Messiah. He will not be seen on His terrible Day of fiery wrath.

Psalms 11:4-6, Rev. 6:12-17, Isaiah 2:12-21, Isaiah 13:9-13, Isaiah 61:2b, Isaiah 66:15-16, Ezekiel 30:1-3, Joel 2:11 &31, Micah 5:15, Nahum 1:2-6, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Malachi 4:1, Romans 1:18, 2 Peter 3:7 & 10 It will be the Sixth Seal event, Revelation 6:12-17

‘His sword appears in the sky and descends in judgement’, Isaiah 30:25-28, Jeremiah 4:20-28, Jeremiah 23:19, Jeremiah 47:6-7, Jeremiah 50:35-38, Ezekiel 21:3-7 & 14-16

‘He treads the winepress of the nations’, Revelation 14:17-20, Jeremiah 9:21-22, Jeremiah 25:30-33, Jeremiah 49:35-37, Habakkuk 3:12, Psalm 65:1-3

‘I shall send fire’, Ezekiel 20:46-48, Joel 1:19-20, Amos 1:4,7,10,12,14. Amos 2:2,5. Obadiah 1:18, Zephaniah 3:8, Hebrews 10:27

‘I will judge you as well’, Ezekiel 23:32-34, Obadiah 1:16, Jeremiah 30:11, Ezekiel 7:1-27, Hosea 4:1-3, Hosea 12:2, Amos 4:12

‘The year for redeeming My own has come’, We are nearing the end of this age, the Lord will take action in His creation, as He did so long ago: in the days of Noah. Isaiah 66:15-16, Micah 5:10-15, Habakkuk 3:12, Ezekiel 7:14

So that is your motivation in all of this! Now, I understand, Brother in Jesus.

 

[keras]

The fate of the Evil Neighbors:
JORDAN:
Ezekiel 25:1-11 Prophesy against the Ammonites – because you exulted over the Land of Israel with spiteful contempt, I shall give you up to be plundered by the nations. I will cut you off from other peoples and exterminate you from every country. Peoples from the East will camp on your land.

Jeremiah 49:1-8 Has Israel no heirs? Why, then do Milcoms people possess the towns of Gad? Therefore a time is coming when you will hear the battle cry. Ammon will become a desolate mound, all its towns burnt to ashes.

Ezekiel 21:28-32 A sword of slaughter will flash like lightning. The visions that you have are false, advising you to bring the sword against the unbelievers, but the time of their punishment will come later. In the land of your ancestry, I will judge you, I shall hand you over to brutal men. You will be fuel for the fire and be remembered no more.

Amos 1:13-15 For crime after crime of the Ammonites, I shall grant them no reprieve, because in their greed for land, they ripped open pregnant women in Gilead. Therefore, fire will destroy Rabbah- Ammon with a whirlwind on that day. Their King will go into exile and his officers with him.

 

[keras]

So that is your motivation in all of this! Now, I understand, Brother in Jesus.

My motivation is to promote the Prophetic Word.
Seems that doesn't suit what you want the Lord to do.

 

[Grip Docility]

My motivation is to promote the Prophetic Word.
Seems that doesn't suit what you want the Lord to do.

Brother, you misunderstand me. You hit agree with my post.

I was referring to this; “things that God has given us to show that The word of OUR LIVING Word is True and valid.”

It was then that I realized that you are passionate about showing people that Scripture is Alive and well coming true, even today… by it’s Breath of the Holy Spirit, within each individual used to pen it.

I was complimenting you. <3

 

[Jamdoc]

Brother, you misunderstand me. You hit agree with my post.

I was referring to this; “things that God has given us to show that The word of OUR LIVING Word is True and valid.”

It was then that I realized that you are passionate about showing people that Scripture is Alive and well coming true, even today… by it’s Breath of the Holy Spirit, within each individual used to pen it.

I was complimenting you. <3

He has some odd ideas though. Like he's never seen a lunar eclipse so he thinks when the bible talks about the moon being darkened and the moon being red like blood they are 2 different things. That's how he's come up with 2 different days of the Lord, one where the moon glowing bright red because that's what he thinks of when he reads the moon being like blood, and 1 where the moon is dark because to him a lunar eclipse means the moon is blackened out
But reality is, it's the same day. Lunar eclipses/blood moons are the same thing. When the moon is in the Earth's shadow it makes it a dark red

But he won't let his definitions go even though they don't line up with reality.

Similarly he has created this theory that the sixth seal is a Coronal Mass Ejection, IE what we know as a solar flare.
In reality, a CME/Solar flare is charged particles that collide with the Earth's magnetic field and create Aurora in the sky, it can result in electrical disturbances and damage to satellite instruments, a really large one might cause electrical systems to fail entirely and even cause electrical fires.
But to Keras a CME is a fireball from the sun that travels 93 million miles across a near vacuum, but doesn't lose energy or heat, and engulfs the world in fire.

So because of those 2 points, he can't see Revelation 6:12 matching with Matthew 24:29. Many pretrib can't see it either but they willfully ignore it, because the end of "the tribulation" to them is Revelation 19, Keras just sees them as 2 different things because of his wrong understanding of what a Lunar eclipse looks like.

 

[keras]

But he won't let his definitions go even though they don't line up with reality.

The reality is that a blood red moon is different to the moon not giving any light.
You blithely ignore Isaiah 30:26a, which specifically tells us the Lord will use the sun to do what Isaiah 30:27-28 & 30, describe.

A Coronal Mass Ejection of unprecedented magnitude can and will literally fulfil all the graphic Prophesies about the terrible Day of the Lords wrath.

 

[Jamdoc]

You do infer a gap between the Sixth Seal and the Return.

I believe it's within the same day, the 6th, and 7th seals, and first trumpet.. same day.
Because the 6th seals contain the signs Jesus said immediately precede His return, and the Earth Dwellers say the great day of God's wrath is come
Then Jesus is worshipped by the saints..
then the 7th seal is opened and.. silence. I don't think the silence is due to "the seriousness of the judgements" the saints in heaven want the judgements. the 5th seal has them crying out for them, they know what they're asking for, and they want it, they cheer the utter destruction of Babylon.
But if Jesus were to be leaving heaven without them, that would be something unexpected.. silence, because after that, you never see the saints in heaven worshiping the lamb with God anymore, you just have them worshiping 1 person: God on the throne, rather than 2 persons: God on the throne and the Lamb, the way they do in Revelation 5, and 7.
Connecting it with the first trumpet, it's fire. 2 Thessalonians 1 says that Jesus will return in flaming fire with His mighty angels.
I am speculating that the mighty angels are those that blow the trumpets and pour the bowls, and the flaming fire is the fire from the censor that the angel casts down before the first trumpet, and the first trumpet, which is fire that burns all the green grass and 1/3 of the trees.

I used to think exactly the 6th seal, but they worship the lamb in heaven in between the 6th seal and 7th seal, therefore, it has to be the 7th seal, because Jesus did not give a gap between the signs of the 6th seal and His return, so it should be the same day.

So 6th seal, the heavens open, Jesus is there in the clouds on the throne, the resurrection and rapture happen, the earth dwellers know God's wrath is coming, Jesus is worshipped in the air, Jesus leaves heaven for the Earth, silence in heaven, the first trumpet. That's the beginning of the Day of the Lord as far as I can see.

I view it this way to make the signs of the 6th seal make sense with what Jesus said in the Olivet Discourse, explain the half hour of silence from a crowd that is asking for the judgements before the 6th seal, and cheering the judgements after the 6th seal, and to give that Jesus returns with Mighty Angels (the trumpet and bowl bearers) and flaming fire (the first trumpet). It is ultimately speculation but is based on reconciling scripture to scripture.

I contend that gap is at least 10 years. Probably 15 -20 years, as Rev 8:1, the 7th Seal tells us. To God and Jesus in heaven; that gap is just a half hour, not enough time to do the washing!

There's nowhere in the bible that mentions a 10 year gap.

The sequence of events, Seals, Trumpets and Bowls, culminating in the Seventh Bowl - Armageddon; in Revelation cannot be shuffled or rearranged.
The Sixth Seal, the next Prophesied event, will be the reset of the worlds civilization, to a similar degree; as in the days of Noah.

there are duplicate details between the narratives between Revelation 4-11, and Revelation 12-19, and things that simply make no sense like Jesus takes the Kingdom in Revelation 11:15, but then Satan gives authority to the beast in Revelation 13:2. Jesus taking the Kingdom then giving it back to Satan as His next move makes no sense.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Instead what historically happened is that the Edomites began encroaching on Judea even prior to the Babylonian captivity, and after the Babylonian Captivity were in Judea, and while it was no longer a KINGDOM of Edom, the Edomites still lived in the region that was renamed "Idumea"
Historically these people were forcefully converted to Judaism around 110 BC.
So they still existed, just under a different religion
But the DNA still exists.

This is too much attention being given to racial and national distinctions. God doesn't look at the people of this world in terms of DNA or tribal lineage under the New Covenant. One is identified as being of the number who presently is or is going to be "IN CHRIST" or you are NOT of that number. No other identity matters.

(By the way, Idumea as a nation was conquered long ago in the AD 70 period by Simon bar Gioras's troops. It doesn't matter if a remnant of its people survived or not in the gene pool. Those things don't matter to God, and they shouldn't matter to us.)

 

[keras]

There's nowhere in the bible that mentions a 10 year gap.

As I said, the Seventh Seal is a gap; of a half hour in heaven and of about 15/20 years earth time.
This truth may seem hard to grasp, but why? Psalms 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8 give us the formula and God gives the brains to calculate it.

I only mentioned 10 years, as that is the minimum time for what is Prophesied to happen from Rev 6:12 to Rev 19:10.

there are duplicate details between the narratives between Revelation 4-11, and Revelation 12-19, and things that simply make no sense

Sure: there are flashbacks and details to clarify things in Revelation, as in most books.
But the general sequence of the Seals, Trumpets and Bowls is sacrosanct and is meddled with at the risk if incurring the curses of Rev 22:18-19