NWO conspiracy theories

[ThatRobGuy]

No, not this NWO:

The NWO as in the Illuminati theories. Typically, most who adopt this theory are fundamentalist Christians who feel that it's the mainfestation of the prophecies in Revelations about "The Ten Kings without Kingdoms" or as they're also called in the book "The Ten Horns". Typically, when I talk to other atheists, they're quick to dismiss the theory on the grounds that it stems from a religious book, therefore, it's can't possibly have any type of merit. However, I'm one who does subscribe to the theory, but not because of any religious reasons, obviously.

An atheist film maker who goes by the name Peter Joseph put out an interesting 4-part documentary on the Illuminati and his theory is a little different then most you'll hear on the topic. He believes that this group does exist, and goes in a different direction than most by stating that he feels that they're the ones who actually created a lot the mainstream religions as a means to control the population.

It's not edge of your seat material, but definitely an interesting topic and documentary.

:: Download Zeitgeist: Episode 1 for Free. Watch Zeitgeist: Episode 1 Online with Other Documentary Films and Free Movies. ::
:: Download Zeitgeist Part 2 for Free. Watch Zeitgeist Part 2 Online with Other Documentary Films and Free Movies. ::
:: Download Zeitgeist Episode 3 for Free. Watch Zeitgeist Episode 3 Online with Other Documentary Films and Free Movies. ::
:: Download Zeitgeist Addendum for Free. Watch Zeitgeist Addendum Online with other Documentary Films and Free Movies. ::

Part one: The Greatest Story Ever Told
-Covers the topic of religion and how it's used to control people.

Part two: All the world's a stage
-Covers false flag military operations

Part three: Don't mind the men behind the curtain
-Covers central banking

Addendum:
-Covers some more on central banking and exploitation of South American countries for profit


Even if it's not something you subscribe to, he does have some very good information and I'd be interested on getting some peoples thoughts on it...those who are willing to watch it of course.

 

[Pwnzerfaust]

Eh.. I've watched it and wasn't impressed by the majority. Much of the information, particularly regarding the 9/11 bits, have been refuted a thousand times, or are just completely nonsensical and farcical. I consider it about as believable, generally, as Loose Change (that is, not at all).

 

[ranunculus]

I thought it was nonsense. I really hated the overgeneralizations and oversimplifications.

Zeitgeist, the movie Debunked - Introduction - Zeitgeist Exposed - Skeptic Project

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Eh.. I've watched it and wasn't impressed by the majority. Much of the information, particularly regarding the 9/11 bits, have been refuted a thousand times, or are just completely nonsensical and farcical. I consider it about as believable, generally, as Loose Change (that is, not at all).

In all fairness to the 9/11 conspiracy theorists out there, the information used to refute the conspiracy theory often times sounds equally silly.

Conspiracy theory: There must have been explosives planted in the towers to make them collapse since jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough to weaken the type of steel used in the construction of those buildings. It's about 200 degree shy of the weakening point.

Folks trying To Refute It: Well, the combination of the heat from the jet fuel and the friction from the plane debris sliding into the building created the extra 200 degrees needed to weaken the steel.


Conspiracy theory: They must have put explosives in the base of the towers to get them to collapse from the bottom up. Also, some one must have intentionally brough down WTC-7 since it was blocks away from the twin towers and every other building around WTC-7 was fine.

Folks trying to Refute It: Well, actually, when the planes hit, there must have been a fireball that went down the elevator shaft that started weaking the base of the tower first. (Even though scientific researchers claimed that the chances of that are so rare that the odds of it happening in the first place are unlikely much less twice in the same day). The shockwaves from the other two towers collapsing caused WTC-7 to come down (even though it was newer and more stucturally sound than the building around it)


Conspiracy theory: They've found the many of the hijackers that they claimed to find passports for in the rubble are actually still alive in various middle eastern countries. Also, the officers at NORAD went on the record as saying that they were given the order to stand down when they had planes in the air that could've intercepted the two heading for NYC. They also show in flight data that flight 93 actually stopped at the NASA research center next to Cleveland Hopkins airport.

Folks trying to refute it: (Crickets Chirping sound effect here)

The reasoning the refuters often use to try to use to explain the towers collapsing often require so many stetches and rare one-offs that it's hard to believe that they happened twice in one day.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I thought it was nonsense. I really hated the overgeneralizations and oversimplifications.

Zeitgeist, the movie Debunked - Introduction - Zeitgeist Exposed - Skeptic Project

Which parts?

Even the link you provided acknowledge that most of the info given in part 1 is "widely known for years" and the comment about unsourced info in the article isn't true, when he's explaining the fractional reserve central banking system, he used Modern Money Mechanics, a book put out by the federal reserve itself, to explain the system.

So is the part you have a problem with mainly the part about the false flag military operations? (9/11, PT boat incident, sinking of the the american cruise ship)

 

[Autumnleaf]

As long as the US government taxes Americans to pay real interest for dollars created out of thin air by private banks I believe in conspiracies. I wonder why Woodrow Wilson did it. I don't think he was a bad man by nature.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

As long as the US government taxes Americans to pay real interest for dollars created out of thin air by private banks I believe in conspiracies. I wonder why Woodrow Wilson did it. I don't think he was a bad man by nature.

The whole federal reserve act was shady by nature if you look at the origin of how it came into existence. An in-law of JP Morgan introduced the plan and held the meeting (with just a handful of his friends that were in congress) on a day right before a holiday (when he knew 90% of congress would be at home with their families) on a family resort on an island. Essentially, he made sure to pick a time and place where he knew none of the opposition would be able to show up for the meeting. Due to a bogus interpretation of the constitution by one of his judicial friends, they somehow slipped past the rules pertaining to how many members of congress had to be present.

So one guy with a few contacts in congress and a contact on the supreme court pretty much got the whole thing pushed through over the Christmas break for JP Morgan in 1913. Kind of suspicious that a year later, the US decided to get involed in world war 1 which caused them to have to get huge loans from the federal reserve at the new interest rate. Either the bankers just picked a lucky time, or they were plotting the whole thing.

They used the excuse of the sinking of Lusitania as an excuse claiming it was an unprovoked attack, but they knew exactly what was going to happen by allowing that ship to set sail being that the government of Germany told them directly, in plain terms, that the area was a war zone, and any ship sailing in those waters would be sunk.

Just like they counted on, the citizens got mad and encouraged the government to get the US involved in the war. It's amazing how they can control those types of events to trick the will of the people into matching their own will.

If you research every other major conflict we've been involved with, there's always a similar story around it.

 

[disciple2011]

No, not this NWO:


The NWO as in the Illuminati theories. Typically, most who adopt this theory are fundamentalist Christians who feel that it's the mainfestation of the prophecies in Revelations about "The Ten Kings without Kingdoms" or as they're also called in the book "The Ten Horns". Typically, when I talk to other atheists, they're quick to dismiss the theory on the grounds that it stems from a religious book, therefore, it's can't possibly have any type of merit. However, I'm one who does subscribe to the theory, but not because of any religious reasons, obviously.

An atheist film maker who goes by the name Peter Joseph put out an interesting 4-part documentary on the Illuminati and his theory is a little different then most you'll hear on the topic. He believes that this group does exist, and goes in a different direction than most by stating that he feels that they're the ones who actually created a lot the mainstream religions as a means to control the population.

It's not edge of your seat material, but definitely an interesting topic and documentary.

:: Download Zeitgeist: Episode 1 for Free. Watch Zeitgeist: Episode 1 Online with Other Documentary Films and Free Movies. ::
:: Download Zeitgeist Part 2 for Free. Watch Zeitgeist Part 2 Online with Other Documentary Films and Free Movies. ::
:: Download Zeitgeist Episode 3 for Free. Watch Zeitgeist Episode 3 Online with Other Documentary Films and Free Movies. ::
:: Download Zeitgeist Addendum for Free. Watch Zeitgeist Addendum Online with other Documentary Films and Free Movies. ::

Part one: The Greatest Story Ever Told
-Covers the topic of religion and how it's used to control people.

Part two: All the world's a stage
-Covers false flag military operations

Part three: Don't mind the men behind the curtain
-Covers central banking

Addendum:
-Covers some more on central banking and exploitation of South American countries for profit


Even if it's not something you subscribe to, he does have some very good information and I'd be interested on getting some peoples thoughts on it...those who are willing to watch it of course.

I will say it again and again and repeat it a million times over for all the dullards out there.

There is no New World Order.

There is only the same Old World Order with the word New superimposed over Old.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I will say it again and again and repeat it a million times over for all the dullards out there.

There is no New World Order.

There is only the same Old World Order with the word New superimposed over Old.

I'm not sure I follow what you're trying to imply?

Most people who coin the term "New World Order" know that there's nothing "new" about it, and that it's been the same groups calling the shots since 2 centuries ago.

Is that what you mean or was there another idea you were trying to convey by that statement? Either way, I'm not sure which side of the debate the "dullards" comment was directed at, but I don't see how throwing an insult out and making a complaint about a figure of speech contributes any value to the thread...

 

[CounselorForChrist]

Gosh....NWO stuff...I love it...but...I....must resist urge to post............
.........9/11, Acorn, NWO, FEMA, Patriot Act.......
:uts hands over mouth and runs out of room::
lol

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

I find these theories incredibly frustrating. I've met the odd person on the Left, who, for political reasons, ascribes to these conspiracy theories. I find them to be a distraction. The great injustices in the world are occurring right under our noses, without even an attempt at a cover-up. There's really no need to wonder what the Bilderberg group are up to when the IMF are entrenching privilege and poverty openly. The scariest things are happening right in front of our eyes.

 

[ranunculus]

Which parts?

Even the link you provided acknowledge that most of the info given in part 1 is "widely known for years" and the comment about unsourced info in the article isn't true, when he's explaining the fractional reserve central banking system, he used Modern Money Mechanics, a book put out by the federal reserve itself, to explain the system.

So is the part you have a problem with mainly the part about the false flag military operations? (9/11, PT boat incident, sinking of the the american cruise ship)

It's been 4-5 years since I saw it. Here's a recap of most of the things I found wrong with it.

The first third of the film is an unscholarly, sophomoric, horribly flawed, over-simplification that tries to portray Christianity as nothing more than the next incarnation of the astrologically themed religions that preceded it. Like all conspiracy theories, they combine a few facts, focus on correlations and build an intriguing story that seems to fit the pieces together nicely - provided you don't actually dig below the surface to find out where they might have gone wrong.

The second third of the film is full-on conspiracy theory nonsense that is a virtual cut-and-paste from the "Loose Change" 9/11 conspiracy video. The flaws in this portion have been expertly addressed on numerous websites, video responses and investigated not just by responsible publications like Scientific American but also thoroughly debunked by peer-reviewed science. There is no reliable evidence to support the fascinating fairy-tale they weave. Again, like all conspiracy theories, a few facts a compelling story and as long as you don't look behind the curtain, it can be fairly convincing.

The final third of the film is complete BS. The claims that taxes are illegal and that one doesn't have to pay taxes have been bandied about for years - and they've been tested in the courts. Anyone willing to actually refuse to pay their taxes based on the information in this film is likely to find themselves in a court room appearing very foolish as mountains of case law and precedent demonstrate the absurdity of their claim.

Zeitgeist is perhaps one of the most damaging films I've ever seen, because people who don't exercise proper skepticism buy into a flawed story and then repeat it. They may convince other folks, and what we'll end up with are a bunch of people who reject Christianity, for example, for very bad reasons - and the minute they come face to face with someone who can defend Christianity from these easily dismissed claims, they're likely to not simply be convinced they were wrong but also convinced that Christianity is therefore true (after all, we're talking about folks who weren't bothered to investigate the truth in the first place).

There are some facts in the film, but it's not particularly difficult to take a few facts, spin a clever story and make a very convincing case for something, despite having no rational, evidence-based justification for their beliefs.

The Atheist Experience™: The unofficial Atheist Experience response to Zeitgeist


One of things I remember is in part 1 where they try to compare Jesus to Horus and the sun god Ra by saying Jesus is the "sun of god / son of god". And therefor christianity is just a cult that worships the sun like the ancient Egyptians.

There's so much better arguments against christianity than this dreck.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

One of things I remember is in part 1 where they try to compare Jesus to Horus and the sun god Ra by saying Jesus is the "sun of god / son of god". And therefor christianity is just a cult that worships the sun like the ancient Egyptians.

How were his comparisons flawed?

The similarities he pointed out were valid observations.

 

[ranunculus]

How were his comparisons flawed?

The similarities he pointed out were valid observations.

From what i remember, the claim hinged on the similarity between the words 'sun' and 'son'. Even though that's only true in English.

Here a curious thing occurs: the Sun stops moving south, at least perceivably, for 3 days. During this 3 day pause, the Sun resides in the vicinity of the Southern Cross, or Crux, constellation. And after this time on December 25th, the Sun moves 1 degree, this time north, foreshadowing longer days, warmth, and Spring. And thus it was said: the Sun died on the cross, was dead for 3 days, only to be resurrected or born again. This is why Jesus and numerous other Sun Gods share the crucifixion, 3-day death, and resurrection concept. It is the Sun's transition period before it shifts its direction back into the Northern Hemisphere, bringing Spring, and thus salvation.

Other points: the sun doesn't reside near the southern cross and other gods weren't crucified.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

From what i remember, the claim hinged on the similarity between the words 'sun' and 'son'. Even though that's only true in English.

Other points: the sun doesn't reside near the southern cross and other gods weren't crucified.

Actually, I thought that was part of his point...that every culture had it's own cultural justifications to believing the pagan adaptation of atrology.

To your other point...
Sixteen Saviors Crucified

 

[ranunculus]

Actually, I thought that was part of his point...that every culture had it's own cultural justifications to believing the pagan adaptation of atrology.

To be fair to Christianity, I think the cross was adopted as a symbol not because Jesus was the sun who rises after 3 days in the constellation Crux but because he was nailed to a cross at the end of his life.

To your other point...
Sixteen Saviors Crucified

Uhm, I don't know if you've seen the disclaimer at the start of the page you linked:

ATTENTION: The scholarship of Kersey Graves has been questioned by numerous theists and nontheists alike; the inclusion of his The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors in the Secular Web's Historical Library does not constitute endorsement by Internet Infidels, Inc. This document was included for historical purposes; readers should be extremely cautious in trusting anything in this book.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I find these theories incredibly frustrating. I've met the odd person on the Left, who, for political reasons, ascribes to these conspiracy theories. I find them to be a distraction. The great injustices in the world are occurring right under our noses, without even an attempt at a cover-up. There's really no need to wonder what the Bilderberg group are up to when the IMF are entrenching privilege and poverty openly. The scariest things are happening right in front of our eyes.

Actually, these theories have many similarities with what you're describing above.

Essentially, a select group of elite call all of of the shots and strongarm the leaders of the nations into doing what they want for their own gain and try to institute a one world government organization that oversees all of the nations so that the world leaders will have to start reporting to them in terms of chain of command and they're doing so by putting all of the nations in so much debt via the fractional reserve model (enforced by the IMF), that signing up for it will be the only way that the IMF will be willing to write off their debt.