Nuns allowed to go on pill "to prevent rape"

[geocajun]

.

 

[geocajun]

Geo appears to take the position that the use of the contraceptive pill was not contracepting because they did not intend to have sex.

exactly. Wearing a condom is not sinful, but having sex while wearing it is.

I certainly agree that taking the Pill for medical reasons (eg, regulating cycles) is not contracepting. I think taking the Pill for the sole purpose of preventing pregnancy, and possibly accidentally aborting the pregnancy, in the off chance that sex may happen is not the same thing.

just for clarification - Catholic teaching is that one cannot morally consent to have sex while using a contraceptive for any reason, regardless of their circumstances.

 

[RhetorTheo]

this is not what I am saying. One cannot morally consent to have sex while using a contraceptive for any reason, regardless of their circumstances.

What if a teenage girl says this: "I have no intention of having sex before marriage, and I've made a pledge to wait until marriage. But I have heard others say the same thing, and the vast majority end up failing. So, I am taking the Pill. It's not for any medical reason, but because if I were to have sex, I don't want to get pregnant."

Obviously, so far in her life, she has not consented to having sex (while using a contraceptive or otherwise). Is she contracepting?

 

[geocajun]

What if a teenage girl says this: "I have no intention of having sex before marriage, and I've made a pledge to wait until marriage. But I have heard others say the same thing, and the vast majority end up failing. So, I am taking the Pill. It's not for any medical reason, but because if I were to have sex, I don't want to get pregnant."

Obviously, so far in her life, she has not consented to having sex (while using a contraceptive or otherwise). Has she done nothing wrong?

She is only fooling herself if she is taking the pill because she knows she will "end up failing" and consent to having sex.
This is still her freely consenting to [fornicate] have sex while using a contraceptive.

 

[Skripper]

Some folks seemingly are doing a bit of gloating about the situation with nuns in the Congo in the 1960s as it relates to the Church’s stance on contraception. Possibly because they are in favor of contraception, want the Church to change its stance on it and/or because they possibly view this as some sort of fatal flaw or inconsistency in the teachings of Catholic Church on this topic? If this is so, I would ask . . . why? If anyone imagines that what occurred in the Congo is in any way comparable to approving contraception across the board, I have three words: apples and oranges.


Of course, if I’m reading too much into it, and in fact nobody is implying any such thing . . . then what’s the point of this thread?

 

[Annabel Lee]

What if a teenage girl says this: "I have no intention of having sex before marriage, and I've made a pledge to wait until marriage. But I have heard others say the same thing, and the vast majority end up failing. So, I am taking the Pill. It's not for any medical reason, but because if I were to have sex, I don't want to get pregnant."

Obviously, so far in her life, she has not consented to having sex (while using a contraceptive or otherwise). Is she contracepting?

But the raped nuns did not consent to sex or even have sex. They were raped.
Never confuse rape with sex. Rape is an act of violence. I would no more condemn the nuns for taking the pill than I would condemn someone wearing a bullet proof vest in a war zone.

 

[QuagDabPeg]

Ok, so say, for example, I am a social worker who works with "reformed" rapist after they get out of prision, or at those halfway houses for sexual pretetors. Can I use the pill since I am at high risk for rape?

Also, geo, you didn't repsond with whether or not a nonabortive pill was avaible at the time of the nuns, and what exactly this nonabortive form of the pill is, becasue everything I've ever read says all forms of the pill are abortive if conception occurs.

 

[geocajun]

Some folks seemingly are doing a bit of gloating about the situation with nuns in the Congo in the 1960s as it relates to the Church’s stance on contraception. Possibly because they are in favor of contraception, want the Church to change its stance on it and/or because they possibly view this as some sort of fatal flaw or inconsistency in the teachings of Catholic Church on this topic? If this is so, I would ask . . . why? If anyone imagines that what occurred in the Congo is in any way comparable to approving contraception across the board, I have three words: apples and oranges.


Of course, if I’m reading too much into it, and in fact nobody is implying any such thing . . . then what’s the point of this thread?

I think you are right.
This is just another attempt, in a long series of them to either prove presedence for contraceptives being moral, or to prove that the teaching is unreasonable by those who would like to see contraceptives moralized.

If I painted anyone with the wrong brush, I apologize in advance. I am a bit jaded after discussing this issue so often with so many people, who repeat the same old arguments over and over as if its some new revolutionary idea that was never thought of before and it might be the key to their license to contracept.

Rest assured, the Church teaching on contraceptives will not change. It is reasonable, even if you do not understand it. Obedience is a virtue.

 

[geocajun]

Ok, so say, for example, I am a social worker who works with "reformed" rapist after they get out of prision, or at those halfway houses for sexual pretetors. Can I use the pill since I am at high risk for rape?

so long as you have taken a vow of chastity, formal or personal then there would be presedence for it.
You could not however be married and do this.

Also, geo, you didn't repsond with whether or not a nonabortive pill was avaible at the time of the nuns.

I have no idea. Sorry for not stating that earlier. I just don't know the answer.

 

[geocajun]

But the raped nuns did not consent to sex or even have sex. They were raped.
Never confuse rape with sex. Rape is an act of violence. I would no more condemn the nuns for taking the pill than I would condemn someone wearing a bullet proof vest in a war zone.

exactly - only I would add that at least the guys at war are shooting at the guys shooting at them.
The nuns do nothing at all to justify or deserve being raped [shot at].

 

[QuagDabPeg]

Geo, where did you hear there is such thing. I think the reason you don't know is because there is no such thing. In which case if the nuns (or anyone) think they may be raped, they have a moral obligation NOT to be on contraceptive.

 

[entropy_rising]

they possibly view this as some sort of fatal flaw or inconsistency in the teachings of Catholic Church on this topic? If this is so, I would ask . . . why?

If there church says contraception and abortion is wrong, and then turns around and either approves or does not condemn the use of such contraceptions (possibly abortive) among their own nuns, it is not only an inconsistency, it is a hypocrisy.

 

[MariaRegina]

If a nun has endometriosis, she can be prescribed a birth control pill to controll it, can't she?

I knew several nuns who were given the pill due to female problems with the bishop's consent.

 

[Skripper]

I think you are right.
This is just another attempt, in a long series of them to either prove presedence for contraceptives being moral, or to prove that the teaching is unreasonable by those who would like to see contraceptives moralized.

If I painted anyone with the wrong brush, I apologize in advance. I am a bit jaded after discussing this issue so often with so many people, who repeat the same old arguments over and over as if its some new revolutionary idea that was never though of before and it might be the key to their license to contracept.

Rest assured, the Church teaching on contraceptives will not change. It is reasonable, even if you do not understand it. Obedience is a virtue.

I may be wrong as well, and I also apologize in advance if I am, but the general thinking and logic seems to go something like this: "If we can just open a crack, find a chink in the armor, we can exploit it!"

 

[entropy_rising]

I may be wrong as well, and I also apologize in advance if I am, but the general thinking and logic seems to go something like this: "If we can just open a crack, find a chink in the armor, we can exploit it!"

Of course a crack will be exploited. The teachings of the Catholic Church are supposed to be airtight in logic and morality. A tiny chink in the armor IS fatal, just like a tiny chink in an immense dam is tantamount to it's downfall.

 

[QuagDabPeg]

If a nun has endometriosis, she can be prescribed a birth control pill to controll it, can't she?

I knew several nuns who were given the pill due to female problems with the bishop's consent.

Yes there is no problem with that. And I would have no problem with that either. The problem here is that the nuns are doing this becasue they think they may be raped - and this is a possibly abortive agent. There is no problem with the pill if you are not sexually active.

 

[Skripper]

If there church says contraception and abortion is wrong, and then turns around and either approves or does not condemn the use of such contraceptions (possibly abortive) among their own nuns, it is not only an inconsistency, it is a hypocrisy.

No, it certainly is not. At least not in the situation described in the Congo, even if it was "Vatican approved," which I still haven't seen any conclusive evidence of. The intended goal of preventing rape is somewhat different, don't you think?

 

[geocajun]

Geo, where did you hear there is such thing. I think the reason you don't know is because there is no such thing. In which case if the nuns (or anyone) think they may be raped, they have a moral obligation NOT to be on contraceptive.

qdp, I actually learned it on this forum, however it was obscure enough that I was unaware of it until shown either, and I have done significant research in this area from tons and tons of discussions we've had about it in OBOB.
I am so far unable to cite this online, but will continue to search.

Also, be careful with the bold statements as well, if there is one thing we should all be approaching this sort of thing with, it is first and formost that the Bishops have far more knowledge of morality than we do

 

[Annabel Lee]

Yes there is no problem with that. And I would have no problem with that either. The problem here is that the nuns are doing this becasue they think they may be raped - and this is a possibly abortive agent. There is no problem with the pill if you are not sexually active.

But they are not sexually active. To be a victim of rape does not mean you are sexually active.
Would you call a 12 year old rape victim...sexually active? Of course not.

 

[geocajun]

I may be wrong as well, and I also apologize in advance if I am, but the general thinking and logic seems to go something like this: "If we can just open a crack, find a chink in the armor, we can exploit it!"

sounds like something satan might say.