Nudity and Anatomy

Otto the Potto · Oct 19, 2004

It seems that more and more medical and nursing anatomy classes are using nude models. Is this really necessary?

Almost all of the nurses and doctors I've spoken to have stated that using nudes isn't necessary to learn human anatomy; cadavers are sufficient. Furthermore, almost all them never saw a nude in their anatomy classes.

One nursing teacher told me that using nudes in the classroom was vulgar and unnessary.

Please, I only want INFORMATIVE and CONSTRUCTIVE replies.

Ghostgirl · Oct 19, 2004

How else are you supposed to teach anatomy?

Fuzzy · Oct 19, 2004

Disclaimer: I'm not a medical practitioner or student.

I can see using nude models to teach certain aspects of anatomy, such
as limb function, respiratory function, autonomic functions, and such,
and perhaps to remind students that the patient is a person, not just
a pile of parts. It might also be cheaper for the school to use a model,
perhaps the same that models for the art classes, than the paperwork and
expense of a corpse, morgue, biohazard permits, etc. Plus, corpse, being dead,
aren't necessarily the best examples of a healthy human being.
When one of my grandmothers died, she requested to be donated to science
(she'd been a nurse, herself) but was declined because she was just, well, old.
Dying of old age isn't that big an issue, and doesn't need as much study as, say,
cancer or a degenerative disease.

Eudaimonist · Oct 20, 2004

Otto the Potto said:
It seems that more and more medical and nursing anatomy classes are using nude models. Is this really necessary?

They'll see nude people during the course of their profession. They might as well get acquainted with live nude people now. Is prudishness really necessary for medical students?

crashedman · Oct 20, 2004

Hi,

I think that this is a very interesting question. When I was studying A&P as part of my school studies and when doing a course in aromatherapy massage back in 1998, we used a plastic dummy with removable parts both inside and out when describing the body's functions. One of the competing massage colleges would get some students to strip down and mark certain areas of their bodies with a Nikko pen (or what is known in your U.S. terminology as 'magic marker') to highlight the regions that they are referred to in medical jargon.

The question about nude models is one that I think is going to have to be addressed, especially if one is going to have to learn how to do things like mammograms, breast re-construction surgery, or if one is doing studies in beauty therapy or hydrotherapy, you will have to learn how to do things like body scrubs or body/mud masks using live nude people.

The morality is what goes through the mind of some of these medical students (particularly the guys) when they see the nude models? Again, it is all a matter of context.

I find it quite sad that there are some people who cannot see a naked body of any age, shape and size and not start leering or drooling over them.

Crashedman

coyoteBR · Oct 20, 2004

Let me quote the biography of Chuck Jones, creator of Bugs Bunny, Daffy, Coyote, Pepé le Pew, ...
Atending art school, some of the guys look foward to the time they would start drawing nude models. There was a electricity on the air. When the day of having the first class with a model, Chuck says: "Nothing happened. Absolutelly nothing. I was there to draw; she was there to be drawn, what could be more simple and innocent? On the other hand, I treasured on memory a moment when a girl I had a crush on that school sat on the grass, allowing me a wiew of her ankle."

Nude models and students have a professional relationship, nothing else. Nothing to be ashamed, or having second thoughts.
As someone said, people at medicine and art school will face nude people as a rule; better get used.

Archivist · Oct 20, 2004

I would also note that you can't always have a cadaver placed in a specific position to accentuate certain parts of the body that a class might be studying, whereas it is easy to ask a live model to sit or stand in a certain position.

Disclaimer: I am not in the medical profession.

Buzz Dixon · Oct 20, 2004

People who are serious about doing art involving human beings -- including cartoons! -- are well advised to have some figure drawing classes withy live models. The muscles move and the body weight hangs in a way far different from that of a cadaver.

I've never taken a nude figure study class, but I have had classes where models wore briefs and halters (this was in a public school down South, so somebody wisely figured they'd better not go far enough to arouse parental ire).. I have friends and a daughter/son-in-law who are artists and art students and art teachers; I have occasionally visited their class rooms anbd stumbled across a nude figure study class in progress.

I don't know about the rest of the country, but around here they're using flabby 50 year old ex-hippies as live models. I guarantee there is no chance for lustful desire to sprout, much less flourish!

Fuzzy · Oct 20, 2004

Buzz Dixon said:
I don't know about the rest of the country, but around here they're using flabby 50 year old ex-hippies as live models. I guarantee there is no chance for lustful desire to sprout, much less flourish!

Ever read Heinlein's "Stranger in a Stange Land"?
Your post made me think of a conversation in that book where one
character comments to the other that a particular sculpture is "ugly,"
and the response is that it's beautiful, because you see the woman
depicted as old, and as the beauty she used to be.

The statue they're discussing is here:
http://www.artchive.com/artchive/R/rodin/belle_heaulmiere.jpg.html

The name of the piece is usually translated as "The Old Courtesean" or
"The Helmet Maker's Wife", and Rodin used an older woman who'd once
been a professional model as the...um..model.

Buzz Dixon · Oct 20, 2004

Fuzzy said:
Ever read Heinlein's "Stranger in a Stange Land"?
Your post made me think of a conversation in that book where one
character comments to the other that a particular sculpture is "ugly,"
and the response is that it's beautiful, because you see the woman
depicted as old, and as the beauty she used to be.

The statue they're discussing is here:
http://www.artchive.com/artchive/R/rodin/belle_heaulmiere.jpg.html

The name of the piece is usually translated as "The Old Courtesean" or
"The Helmet Maker's Wife", and Rodin used an older woman who'd once
been a professional model as the...um..model.

I didn't say the models were female...

Archivist · Oct 20, 2004

I recall that in her biography Christian artist Joni Tada wrote about having to sketch nude models when she was studying art. She said that it might shock some Christians to know that she had done that, but that it was the only way to really learn how to sketch the human figure.

SquareC · Oct 20, 2004

I think that it's not something anyone should be shocked or offended by. The human body is a beautiful thing, not in a sense of "to be desired" but in a sense of "natural and given by the Divine." To be ashamed of one's body is to be ashamed of what the Divine has blessed us with.

Fuzzy · Oct 20, 2004

Buzz Dixon said:
I didn't say the models were female...

I know. Your comment of "flabby 50 year old ex-hippies" just reminded me
of that section of the book, is all. Just to dredge up a few memories from
college (Bachelor of Fine Arts, Studio Art), compare Michelangelo's
"David" to "La Pieta," or "Dying Gaul." All have as a central figure a nude
or semi-nude male, and while the first one is Man as gloriously ideal, the others have Man as feeble, powerless, and fading. That fifty year old model
is closer to the average person than, say, if an Olympic athlete were modeling
for the class. Wrinkled flesh, scars, blemishes, and deviations from the "ideal"
prompt questions of where a scar came from, or what they do for a living,
or if it's a 'natural' birthmark or a tattoo they didn't want any more. The
more something provokes, the more you feel towards it. Plus, capturing all
those wrinkles and flabby bits will be more challenging to the students
than just drawing the smooth curve of a perfect limb.

Oh, and Donatello's "David" statue is just wierd. David capering nude being
happy and enjoying life? Fine. While wearing a shrubbery on his head? Wierd.

Volos · Oct 20, 2004

Buzz Dixon said:
I don't know about the rest of the country, but around here they're using flabby 50 year old ex-hippies as live models. I guarantee there is no chance for lustful desire to sprout, much less flourish!

its good to know you have employment options buzz

mld3three · Oct 20, 2004

I see nothing wrong with Nudity. There is a difference between being nude and being naked. There is nothing sexual about being nude, however about being naked it is completely different. Being nude is being comfortable in your skin, like being able to lie around your house without having to wear clothes.

Why does it seem that everyone gets nudity and nakedness mixed up?

Seeing how there is a difference how could there be an issue of seeng a nude body for anatomy class. It's practically a non-issue.

Buzz Dixon · Oct 20, 2004

Volos said:
its good to know you have employment options buzz

The thought gives me comfort in my old age.

Stormy · Oct 20, 2004

lol oh my!!!

Doctors and nurses actually seeing naked bodies??

You do understand that it is a part of the profession?

Fuzzy · Oct 20, 2004

Buzz Dixon said:
The thought gives me comfort in my old age.

What's the benefits package like on being a nude model? Do they subsidize
sunscreen as part of the medical insurance?

Risen Tree · Oct 20, 2004

Stormy said:
lol oh my!!!

Doctors and nurses actually seeing naked bodies??

You do understand that it is a part of the profession?

Exactly.

praying · Oct 20, 2004

Eudaimonist said:
They'll see nude people during the course of their profession. They might as well get acquainted with live nude people now. Is prudishness really necessary for medical students?

Really what's the big deal? Theyare there to learn not have a sexual encounter.

Nudity and Anatomy

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