Nudism

[crashedman]

What does nudity have to do with any concept of 'sin'?

None! Sober nakedness is never frowned on or seen as criminal behaviour.

God did not punish Adam & Eve for being naked, but because they had disobeyed him by listening to the entity that shamed their state of nakedness.

God did not punish Noah for being naked, but it was Noah who punished the son of Ham for bringing to light his father's state of drunken nakedness to his brothers.

God did not punish David for dancing with only an ephod around his waist, in fact it was Micah who criticised his semi-nakedness who was punished with infertility.

Bathsheba was not punished by God for simply bathing naked, but rather King David for his lack of self-control and also for the murder of King Uriah.

Job also professed that he was going to leave this world without clothes (a good reason why Christian corpses should not be buried in their best 3-piece-suit).

Isaiah was COMMANDED by God to preach naked and barefoot for 3 years. Did any women arrest him for 'Willful and Obscene Exposure'? No! Were there any incidents of him committing any sexual offences or sins with his state of nakedness? No!

St. Peter and St. Paul took their robes off and exposed themselves momentarily whilst ministering in someone's house to prove that they were not celestial beings, but ordinary men out to teach others about Jesus. Were they arrested for doing that, or trying to sexually seduce their guests? No!

Until 500 BC, it was common for new converts to Christianity to be baptised naked - be they men, women and children alike. There was no sniggering, no taking photos to reproduce on porn sites exploiting family nudists. It would never have been tolerated in those days, and we sure shouldn't be tolerating it now.

There are the following stories however:

One man named Legion was healed by Jesus who was naked when he met him. The man's nudity was not the issue, but the fact that he was demon posessed and behaved in such a violent and anti-social manner he was forced to live in caves away from the city. Today's nudists do not behave the way that Legion did when going to church. It has been said however, that the Quaker Christians got their name because they would publicly shake and tremble in church when Jesus' name was mentioned to them. I've never been to one of their services, but I'd be interested to find out whether it is true.

Romans 1: 18-32 warns about people who worship images made to look like the Creator. Some anti-nudist Christians point to this as to what social nudity can lead to. This might be true if the setting is one for sexual reasons (e.g. a swingers club), but even then the atmosphere is controlled and there are certain rules as to what you can and can't do.

John's letter to Laodicea talked of a church that is poor, naked and blind. The nakedness is more of a figurative stance on a group of Christian people who were lukewarm to the Gospel but still made money out of it.

I've not met any nudists who are into doing these things, and I have no wish to. I tend to find such behaviour like staking your faith and trust in gold or marble statues to be completely ridiculous, considering that most I know tend to be either Christians or atheists who refute any belief in supernatural retribution for going naked in non-sexual settings.

I attend nudist beaches and clubs and have rarely to never witnessed any 'sinful' behaviour going on, unless you are to count the few men who go to ogle or sexually harass the females or who use the beaches for public masturbation or gay group sex. These men clearly have serious psychological problems that the nude beachgoers shouldn't tolerate - rather they ought to report such people to the police.

I have only witnessed one single event recently where a young guy/girl couple were having sex in the middle of a beach and I gently warned them to desist or they could face being arrested and nudists losing their rights to use the beach. There is a time and place for sexual intimacy, and a public beach at lunchtime during school holidays is not the place for it.

Personally speaking, I think nakedness is such a huge issue today because we are presently living in a world that is obsessed with religious fundamentalism and fanaticism, materialism, and sexual dysfunction in every shape or form, and even made these behaviours to look like fun things to do.

We also judge a man's sex appeal by the size of his penis and a woman's sexual desirability by the size and shape of her breasts rather than her personality.

It is a sad indictment on society, and it is time when family nudists and conservative Christians need to be working together to be effecting such changes in societal thinking rather than blaming nudists for being part of societal ills.


Crashedman

 

[BigToe]

i dont think that "being nude in public" is a sin. but it also depends on the circumstances and where the nudity is taking place to decide if it is a "sin". is it against the law/regulations/ordinances of the location for one to be nude? if so, then its a "sin" to be nude there. is it disruptive to others, causing an unwanted distraction? are you causing harm to anyone? are you doing it to gain attention or because you are a nudist? lots of things play into if its a sin or not

 

[Aduro Amnis]

Do you pray to God in the shower?
Of course ya do .
Nudity is not a sin because it does not seperate you from God.

 

[fox03]

I don't know about nudism. It probably isn't inherently wrong, but come one lets be realistic; us guys are all perverts.

Personally I could care less if people see me naked, because I dont know I just don't care, but because the male form is not a pretty thing, I think that no males should be naked publicly.

However, even the ancient Celts were naked. In battles they fought naked to frighten their enemy. And, come on, what could be scarier than seeing a few thousand hairy men, naked, running at you with weapons, and screaming some foreign dilect. It's all great!

 

[aggie03]

Well there are times when being nude isn't wrong, and there are times when it is. I think that's perhaps what makes this such a difficult subject to talk about. We often to setup a false dillemma in which we want an authoritative statement that hammers out a single rule that is good for every and all situations; I just don't believe that's possible in this case. Is it wrong to be nude in the shower? No. Is it wrong to be nude with your husband or wife for procreation? No. Is it wrong to be nude in certain other situations? Yes, I believe the Scriptures plainly teach that. So what are we to do? Read the Bible

 

[crashedman]

Well there are times when being nude isn't wrong, and there are times when it is. I think that's perhaps what makes this such a difficult subject to talk about. We often to setup a false dillemma in which we want an authoritative statement that hammers out a single rule that is good for every and all situations; I just don't believe that's possible in this case. Is it wrong to be nude in the shower? No. Is it wrong to be nude with your husband or wife for procreation? No. Is it wrong to be nude in certain other situations? Yes, I believe the Scriptures plainly teach that. So what are we to do? Read the Bible

Oh dear me, you haven't gotten past Queen Victoria's age, have you?? Think outside the squares a bit man.

Is it wrong to be nude in the doctor's office for a check-up? No.

Is it wrong to be nude for an art modelling or photography class? No.

Is it wrong to be nude on a beach with your family or with other people, providing there is no sexual behaviour happening? No. There is nowhere in the Bible that states God condemns anyone for doing this.

Is it wrong to get nude at a party where drunkenness, drugs and indiscriminate sex is involved? Yes.

Is it wrong to subject children to seeing adults naked in non-sexual activities? No. I've never heard of any kid who has been mentally and emotionally scarred for life after seeing naturist films.

Is it wrong to form a rural community where sex amongst responsible, loving consenting adults is practised? If they are adults, and they are happy with their lifestyle and not hurting anyone else, who are we to condemn them?

I believe that showing children films which feature clothed adults beating, shooting and killing each other and glamourising cruelty to animals is wrong, because it gives them the idea that this sort of behaviour is OK to get what you want oe live a peaceful and happy life.

It makes me wonder what sort of a hypocrite our God is when he gives Moses the commandment 'Thou shalt not kill', yet many of us Christians still allow it.

Most of all these phobias about nakedness are nothing but puerile superstitions that men have created in order to proliferate greed, corruption, dehumanisation, oppression and repression. Did Jesus approve of any of these things? Not at all.

Have a look at this site, and you'll see exactly what fruits that this sick behaviour of human segregation has done:

http://www.geocities.com/thehumanmind


Crashedman

 

[Mekkala]

Talk about logic... The Bible doesn't speak so we have to "Read" the Bible... oh, but I forgot, I'm talking to a wicca...do you have a spell that would make the Bible read itself aloud?

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If you don't believe in sin, then don't talk about sin... if you don't believe in sin, then you wouldn't be giving some opinion...why give an opinion if you don't believe in it?

If you think Nudism isn't wrong, just say Nudism isn't in my opinion harmful or wrong...
Don't comment on whether you think it's a sin or not, if you don't believe in it....

Or you still don't see it?

Are you under the impression that forums rules only apply to non-Christians, and Christians don't have to adhere to them?

Your behavior is rude, offensive, and disrespectful. You slapped someone in the face, and when they slapped back, you informed them that they were in violation of forum rules. Don't you see anything wrong with that behavior?

 

[Mekkala]

Usually not? Is there a time when a LITTLE lust is acceptable?

What is the percentage of lust tolerable in agiven activity?

I don't think lust is wrong at all, in any form or situation. What *can* be wrong is allowing your lust to prompt you to act offensively towards other people. However, simply desiring and enjoying sex is perfectly harmless and actually quite a good thing, in my opinion.

 

[Mekkala]

Well there are times when being nude isn't wrong, and there are times when it is. I think that's perhaps what makes this such a difficult subject to talk about. We often to setup a false dillemma in which we want an authoritative statement that hammers out a single rule that is good for every and all situations; I just don't believe that's possible in this case. Is it wrong to be nude in the shower? No. Is it wrong to be nude with your husband or wife for procreation?

Just out of curiosity... do you think it is sinful to have sex for any purpose other than pure procreation?

EDIT: Or even to be nude with your husband and wife, is it sinful if you're not nude specifically for the purpose of copulating with procreation in mind?

 

[Risen Tree]

crashedman, good post.

I followed some URLs from your link and found this story, which perfectly exemplifies so much of the situation: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/03/22/BAGNC5P49A1.DTL

 

[Adam Kadamon]

You know, I was just thinking about something...

If being nude were a sin and since we are all born nude...well, that would give new meaning to the phrase "being born into sin", wouldn't it.

*shrugs*

 

[PastorFreud]

I don't think lust is wrong at all, in any form or situation. What *can* be wrong is allowing your lust to prompt you to act offensively towards other people. However, simply desiring and enjoying sex is perfectly harmless and actually quite a good thing, in my opinion.

 

[Risen Tree]

sigh...the OP concerns nudism, not sex....

 

[Havoc]

However, even the ancient Celts were naked. In battles they fought naked to frighten their enemy. And, come on, what could be scarier than seeing a few thousand hairy men, naked, running at you with weapons, and screaming some foreign dilect. It's all great!

Aye, twas a grrrrand sight. Don't forget the woad lads.

 

[PastorFreud]

sigh...the OP concerns nudism, not sex....

Unfortunately, some Christians see one as having to lead to the other.

 

[aggie03]

Oh dear me, you haven't gotten past Queen Victoria's age, have you?? Think outside the squares a bit man.

Can you spell ad hominem? I don't think that you read through the things that I've said very carefully, and I think that you have indeed fallen into the trap of the false dilemma that is often established by both sides when this conversation comes up. The answer is not to be found in one extreme or the other, but somewhere in the middle according to what the Scriptures have said.

Is it wrong to be nude in the doctor's office for a check-up? No.

I'll go ahead and repost some of the things that you're responding to:

Is it wrong to be nude in the shower? No. Is it wrong to be nude with your husband or wife for procreation? No. Is it wrong to be nude in certain other situations (Emphasis now added)? Yes, I believe the Scriptures plainly teach that.

I never said that it's wrong to be nude in every situation, but rather in CERTAIN situations. It would be pretty hard to make little people if nobody ever took off any of their clothes .

Is it wrong to be nude for an art modelling or photography class? No.

I'd probably say that this is wrong.

Is it wrong to be nude on a beach with your family or with other people, providing there is no sexual behaviour happening? No. There is nowhere in the Bible that states God condemns anyone for doing this.

I wouldn't go to a nude beach either. There may not be a specific place where God says that we can't go to a nude beach, but there are principles that God has established which we ought to allow to guide our lives.

Is it wrong to get nude at a party where drunkenness, drugs and indiscriminate sex is involved? Yes.

Glad that we at least agree here That's a starting point.

Is it wrong to form a rural community where sex amongst responsible, loving consenting adults is practised? If they are adults, and they are happy with their lifestyle and not hurting anyone else, who are we to condemn them?

Actually, I believe that according to the sum of God's word, that the only place or relationship where sex is acceptable in the sight of God is within the marriage relationship that God established.

I believe that showing children films which feature clothed adults beating, shooting and killing each other and glamourising cruelty to animals is wrong, because it gives them the idea that this sort of behaviour is OK to get what you want oe live a peaceful and happy life.

Glad that we agree here.

It makes me wonder what sort of a hypocrite our God is when he gives Moses the commandment 'Thou shalt not kill', yet many of us Christians still allow it.

Is it really God who is the hypocrite or those people who don't follow the things that God has said, yet profess to be right in their actions? I'd go with the people being wrong every time.

Of course, you also have to consider all things that are written in the Scriptures over a particular topic, and what you have just touched on happens to be one of the more complicated and in depth ones.

Most of all these phobias about nakedness are nothing but puerile superstitions that men have created in order to proliferate greed, corruption, dehumanisation, oppression and repression. Did Jesus approve of any of these things? Not at all.

I do not dress modestly because I'm greedy or because I want to proliferate any of the things that you've listed.

Look foward to hearing back from you or anyone else who has comments

 

[BigToe]

actually you can have sex without being nude.

i think nude art is entirely respectable. it is not a place of lust but of admiring the beautiful craftsmanship of God.

 

[fashionably_lonely]

And in European countries, showing skin *more than Janet Jackson ever did* isnt considered as shocking and hasn't exactly led to epidemics of sex crimes either.

 

[fashionably_lonely]

and if my wife and i are nude on a beach, where's the sin in that? when all kinds of people go to the beach, unless people stare and ogle you, it would seem to be fine..it's not like i can buy my own beach if i wish to be nude upon it.

 

[fashionably_lonely]

Sorry for so many posts, but aggie: you claim it is not a sin to be nude in front of your spouse for procreation. if my wife and i go around nude in our home not because we intend to have children but because we enjoy seeing each other nude, are we then sinning, or was this simply your phraseology?