Nudism

[headedhome]

I'm not positive about in nudist camps but I believe God probably disaproves. I would like to think nudism isn't wrong, but that's my flesh talking, my spirit says it goes against God's standards for fallen man.

 

[Johnnz]

How does it go against Gods standard for fallen man?

Sure, all shame comes from doing someting wrong. But, if it is not wrong there should be no shame, unless we have some unusual values. Non nudists fear nudity because they are ashamed of their own bodies (God calls them His temples), because they fear getting sexually aroused (true for most people, but seldom an issue amongst social nudists) and that any interest in naked bodies, especially of the opposite sex is seen (wrongly) as 'lustful'.

Nudists are people at peace with their bodies, a huge plus in a body image driven culture, they don't get sexually aroused by nudity, and exposure to the naked human body de-eroticises it far more successfully and radically than do the avoidance, self control mantras that are so popular.

John
NZ

 

[tgg]

Precious stone,

I disagree that porn is the reason why people associate nakedness with sex. In fact, there is a pastor in California called Jeff Bowman who has been using naturism as a means of getting people off addiction to pornographic material.

You can't behave the same way in a naturist/nudist environment the same way you can in a XXX-movie theatre or peepshow. It's not what it is about.

I think that Muslim countries should really lighten up about nudity and get rid of their idol worshipping religion that paints the creator of the universe as an angry, gymnophobic monster. They'd be so much better for it.

I'd like to see public nudity legalised everywhere, and break down the barriers between so-called 'civilised' man and tribal people.

Just think: it'd put an end to violence against women, terrorism, and gang warfare for good.


tgg

 

[Velo Princesse]

So, do you know why most people can't handle the sight of the (naked/nude)human form?

Most people can't handle it because they generally only see naked people when it is in a sexual way. If you get used to seeing naked people just sort of hanging out, you tend to get over it. For example, most men would immediately think about sex if they saw a woman laying on a bed naked and spread eagle w/ her feet up in the air. A gynocologist, on the other hand, doesn't pay much attention to that because it's normal to him. Make sense?

Well, isn't it because porn has led people to think that way, that human form in nude...is an object for gratifying their sexual appetite?

No. It's because as a society we have been taught that you should always be covered, that the human body is something to be ashamed of (especially if you don't look like Angelina Jolie) and that we should only be naked in the company of our husbands or wives. If it is pounded into your head that nudity is about sex than you will believe that nudity is about sex.

But in the case here, I've seen an old man and a young man in nude, and do you know why ? Unfortunately, they were mentally disturbed and had to be sent to the mental institute. Where I live is not where you live. In our society, public nudism is a shame and degrading. Only those who are mentally disturbed dared to go nude publicly.

Where you live sounds only slightly worse than where I live... atleast on this particular issue of complete nudity. The fact your society has taught you that it's a shame and degrading doesn't make it true. However, in a Muslim country it probably would take someone who is mentally disturbed to dare to go out nude... I know I wouldn't do it.

You can't do this in a muslim country, and it really depends where you live and the kind of society you're in. Obviously, even the tribal people in the jungles have started to wear clothes. They do not go in nude, but cover their private parts. A good place for those who opt for public nudism, I would suggest the rainforest or to join in the tribal people. Live in the jungle and enjoy nudism. That is truly natural surrounding.

Tribal people probably tend to cover themselves because of bugs. I would assume that you've never had a tick in your pants... I never have either, but I would imagine that it isn't pleasant. Without the access to sprays and medications that could keep that from happening, it makes sense to protect yourself in some way. Tribal people wearing some clothes probably has very little to do with modesty.

Those who opt for public nudism, as you put it, don't go to the mall naked. We go to nudist resorts, on nudist cruises, or nudist beaches, although the third is not reccommended. In other words, we are only walking around nude in our own homes or in the company of other naturalists, away from the prying eyes of the not so accepting public. In fact, cameras aren't even allowed on the property w/out express permission from the owners. Often, naturalists will even move to a nudist resort and take up full residence. However, all of this takes place in a safe haven where the people who can't handle it can't see it. 9 times out of 10 the John Q. Public could live right next to a nudist resort and not even know it.

 

[Velo Princesse]

Precious stone,

I disagree that porn is the reason why people associate nakedness with sex. In fact, there is a pastor in California called Jeff Bowman who has been using naturism as a means of getting people off addiction to pornographic material.

You can't behave the same way in a naturist/nudist environment the same way you can in a XXX-movie theatre or peepshow. It's not what it is about.

It is interesting that you brought this up. I have read a lot of studies re: how growing up in a nudist household effects children. It appears as though the effect is a good one. Often a teenager who grew up nudist doesn't have the issues w/ sex that others do. Mostly because seeing people naked is so normal that the curiousity doesn't exist. I'm sure you could find links that say that, as I did when I was researching the topic. For the sake of this post I located the this article.

That pastor you mentioned is brilliant... absolutely brilliant.

Randi

 

[KCDAD]

I agree... nudism or naturism is the "normal" state of mankind... clothing is vanity. (Except in the case of winter... )
Wasn't it mark Twain that said "Clothing makes the man, no naked person ever changed the world"
He was being sarcastic.

 

[AdamAnderson21]

headed: I'm not positive about in nudist camps but I believe God probably disaproves.

Weren't Adam and Eve completely naked until they ate from the tree? It would seem that God intended for us to be nudists.

I agree with some of the other posters, that nudism would have several positive effects. It would make people more comfortable with their own and others bodies. Sex would not be nearly as big of an issue. It would create a more intimate and personal atmosphere.

 

[Natman]

In other words, we are only walking around nude in our own homes or in the company of other naturalists, away from the prying eyes of the not so accepting public.

Randi,

Just a slight correction to some of your posts. You keep using the term "naturalist" when I believe the term your are wanting to use is "naturist".

A "naturalist" is a person that studies or simply enjoys nature.

A "naturist" is a person who enjoys being naked in a natural environment.

It seems like you have a handle on this topic and even sounds like you may have experienced some "naturism" a bit yourself.

Your profile indicates that your are an "atheist". Interestingly, many atheistic societies throughout history were viamently opposed to exposure of the naked human body. The prime example that comes to mind is Germany. Prior to communist and atheistic Russian occupation, Germany was home to many clothing optional parks and clubs. During the occupation, it became illegal to be seen naked in any public place. Since the re-opening of Germany, many of the naturis venues have once again returned.

It is through my Christian reading of the scripture that I personally came to see the naked human body as completely acceptable to God, His finest Earthly creation as well as the Temple for His Holy Spirit and as such wholey acceptable to me as well.

I am enjoying your posts. Thank you.

Son-cerely,
Nathan Powers

 

[Natman]

Hi Nat,

I posted those links onto the groups that I moderate, and a few people have written to me and complained that they could not access the sites.

tgg

Tgg,

They need to have either Real Player or Windows Media Player on their machines.

They might try going to Sproul's website and navagating to the past broadcasts page for the Sept 21st show.

http://www.ligonier.org/radio/archive.php

Son-cerely,
Nathan Powers

 

[Natman]

Wasn't it mark Twain that said "Clothing makes the man, no naked person ever changed the world"
He was being sarcastic.

I'm sure he was. I can think of one "naked" person who definitely changed the world. That of course was Jesus as He hung naked on the cross.

Beyond that were Aristotle, Plato, Alexander, various Pharoahs, Peter and John the appostles (not the Beatles), Michalangelo, DaVinci, several US Presidents, CS Lewis, and of course... Burt Reynolds.


Son-cerely,
Nathan Powers

 

[AdamAnderson21]

Natman: I'm sure he was. I can think of one "naked" person who definitely changed the world. That of course was Jesus as He hung naked on the cross.

Oh snap!

 

[Velo Princesse]

Randi,

Just a slight correction to some of your posts. You keep using the term "naturalist" when I believe the term your are wanting to use is "naturist".

A "naturalist" is a person that studies or simply enjoys nature.

A "naturist" is a person who enjoys being naked in a natural environment.

It seems like you have a handle on this topic and even sounds like you may have experienced some "naturism" a bit yourself.

Your profile indicates that your are an "atheist". Interestingly, many atheistic societies throughout history were viamently opposed to exposure of the naked human body. The prime example that comes to mind is Germany. Prior to communist and atheistic Russian occupation, Germany was home to many clothing optional parks and clubs. During the occupation, it became illegal to be seen naked in any public place. Since the re-opening of Germany, many of the naturis venues have once again returned.

It is through my Christian reading of the scripture that I personally came to see the naked human body as completely acceptable to God, His finest Earthly creation as well as the Temple for His Holy Spirit and as such wholey acceptable to me as well.

I am enjoying your posts. Thank you.

Son-cerely,
Nathan Powers

I think I've said before that people shouldn't use words they aren't sure of the meanings and here I am... I've only heard it spoken before in this context, as opposed to in writing, so I thought I had it right...

Are you also a nudist? I find it difficult to believe that atheistic societies have had issue w/ nudism. I always figured it would have been Christian/Muslim societies that would have the issue.

 

[ACougar]

For me nudity symbolizes freedom from bondage and restraint. I think we should all go to Church nude.

 

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For me nudity symbolizes freedom from bondage and restraint. I think we should all go to Church nude.

I'll just ask forgiveness now for cringing at that idea. There are a number of little old men and little old ladies at my church that I have no desire to see naked, let alone the rest of us. There's just something about a naked 80yo+ person that does not appeal to me. Now granted, I'll be that age myself some day, so maybe I'll be more used to the idea by then.

 

[Doug45]

I'll just ask forgiveness now for cringing at that idea. There are a number of little old men and little old ladies at my church that I have no desire to see naked, let alone the rest of us. There's just something about a naked 80yo+ person that does not appeal to me. Now granted, I'll be that age myself some day, so maybe I'll be more used to the idea by then.

Good morning Adiya,

I am only 75% of the way to being in your 'I don't want to see ya' class.
I suspect that I am already there in other respects.

I was offended by obesity and general depreciation of the human body as I looked out of my head to see others, but never about my own physical condition. It was really weird.

As I explored nudism, I discovered that as a man, my somewhat typical disdain for male nudity and nudity of the oldest and obese quickly dropped away. Acceptance came to me from those around me with the freedom for me to drop my clothes.

With them, I discarded the pretense that appearance is of the primary importance and consequently I could see beyond a person's appearance to realize that there was a human being inside of that body of flesh.

Bottom line, try it and you will probably find out that you appreciate some of us not so lovelies in a new and satisfying way.

 

[ACougar]

I find it sad that we are not used to the way our bodies really look. We set this unreasonable ideal regarding how people should look, and then our society associates nudity with sex. I think we should be ditching both these ideas. First, we need to be able see the beauty in everyone, and understand what people really look like... Second, we need to get over the whole nudity = sex thing.

The old men and the old women at your church are just as beautiful with clothes as they are without clothes. Clothes don't change how someone looks they only hide bits and pieces, nudity is honest, it's bold and it's freedom.

I'll just ask forgiveness now for cringing at that idea. There are a number of little old men and little old ladies at my church that I have no desire to see naked, let alone the rest of us. There's just something about a naked 80yo+ person that does not appeal to me. Now granted, I'll be that age myself some day, so maybe I'll be more used to the idea by then.

 

[Natman]

Are you also a nudist?

I do not consider myself a "nudist" per se. I feel that the term "nudist" is more about people that enjoy specifically going to nude social events and gatherings.

I personally prefer "naturist" in that I enjoy being naked in natural surroundings or around the home regardless of whether we are alone or in a crowd. I do not like the idea of specific places (nudist parks etc) to be naked, but prefer clothing optional areas or secluded areas where people feel free to be clothed or not.

I find it difficult to believe that atheistic societies have had issue w/nudism. I always figured it would have been Christian/Muslim societies that would have the issue.

I did too when I first read about it. However, I think it is a carryover from Victorian principles that nude=sex. In an attempt to control procreation/overpopulation, many atheistic societies simply try to cover up the body in hopes that it will result in less sexual activity. Of course it doesn't work and instead, creates an undergorund of sexual activity of a far worse kind, in addition to abortion of children concieved beyond state regulated limits.

Son-cerely,
Nathan Powers

 

[Natman]

There's just something about a naked 80yo+ person that does not appeal to me. Now granted, I'll be that age myself some day, so maybe I'll be more used to the idea by then.

Perhaps if you had the opportunity to see or to work with some naked 80+ individuals your perspective on the matter of nakedness would change.

I count myself blessed to have been able to care for my mother, two grandmothers, a father in-law and a mother in-law, who at times were all unable to do anything for themselves including bathe, get dressed or even go potty. What I learned is that people are people and we are all the same. Ironically, we will all require "intimate" care at sometime in our lives. Hopefully that care can come from a close loved one. Quite often it is rendered by total strangers that slap you around like so much meat, then on to the next guy or girl.

The sooner you get acustomed to the idea, the soone you will be able to deal with the reality of it all.

As a society, we have a tendency to see elderly people as wrinkled and useless. Instead, I prefer to view them as experienced and wise. Every wrinkle and gray hair was usually well earned, and a beautiful badge of honor. There is NOTHING disgusting there.

Son-cerely,
Nathan Powers

 

[stringsinger]

I was offended by obesity and general depreciation of the human body as I looked out of my head to see others, but never about my own physical condition. It was really weird.

As I explored nudism, I discovered that as a man, my somewhat typical disdain for male nudity and nudity of the oldest and obese quickly dropped away. Acceptance came to me from those around me with the freedom for me to drop my clothes.

With them, I discarded the pretense that appearance is of the primary importance and consequently I could see beyond a person's appearance to realize that there was a human being inside of that body of flesh.

You know, there is something really profound and true about what you are saying here. I hope that everyone reading this will ponder and take it to heart. It may just be that our cultural affinity for wearing an artificial covering at all times makes us lose sight of each other's humanness. It is ironic, but when we see people in their natural state, not only are their bodies more apparent, but their souls as well.

-Gregg Gatewood

 

[Johnnz]

One of the most compelling reasons to support some level of appropriate social nudity is the body blow it delivers to the body image myth.

I trust that I will be seen as a bearer of the image of God however many wrinkles and bodily blemishes I acquire. It's a terrible, terrible belief that age makes us unacceptable as physical beings, that we are just entombed beings trapped inside some disgusting past-its-used-by-date packaging.

And its just not old people who need to be challenged. All those who are too big, too small, too droopy, too cellulite encrusted, too hairy, not hairy enough, too wide, too short, too stretched, etc, etc - the bulk of normal humanity - need to abandon their dis-ease with their bodies. It is people just like this who most need the self assurance that social nudity can bring, not those with bodies like gods and goddesses. They are OK with themselves anyway.

John
NZ