NT Wright on the proposition of becoming Roman Catholic

[VincentIII]

I'm interested to hear your thoughts on NT Wright's advice about the proposition of becoming Catholic despite misgivings. Here's the video:

I don't think he's going so far as to suggest cafeteria Catholicism, because he recommends that the husband speaks with a parish priest to be sure of where he (the husband) stands in the hierarchy of beliefs. The other side of the coin is that the husband needs to be sure he's comfortable with both the official and on-the-ground Church.

How do you think you'd fare if you were in the husband's position? Are there things that would dissuade you from becoming Catholic regardless of where you might stand in the hierarchy of beliefs?

 

[Paidiske]

Hmm. With respect - and I have a very great deal of respect - for NT Wright, I'm not sure I'd land where he does on this.

But then, I'm a child of lapsed Catholics who, when I explored church for myself as a young adult, looked seriously at Catholicism and couldn't reconcile myself to it. (For me, the deal breaker was claims of infallibility, and the expectation that a Catholic subordinate their own understanding to a supposedly infallible church).

 

[VincentIII]

Having thought more about this, I'm surprised and a little disappointed that Wright took this position. He seems to be advising the person to just go along with it for the sake of his marriage. It seems clear to me that anybody who's concerned enough to reach out to Tom Wright about it wants a more robust relationship with his church than what he'd find with borderline cafeteria Catholicism.

 

[RamiC]

This is interesting. Especially when I now know the Catholic lady whose husband is at our church, and the EO lady I recently met whose husband goes to the most conservative Anglican church in this city. I am sure that being in love could do it, but I cannot quite imagine this not together on Sunday morning thing. If I imagine being in love with someone, I suppose believing every denomination has it's faults, and it is about our personal relationship with Jesus, not an "are you in the right church test" I could understand someone swapping for the sake of a marriage.

I am at a more liberal church than I would likely be at for the sake of my marriage, but I cannot deny Jesus seems to be quite able to teach me through that circumstance, so what can I do? I am not going to lie.

We sang this one today...

But we make His love too narrow
By false limits of our own;
And we magnify His strictness
With a zeal He will not own.

There's a Wideness in God's Mercy

 

[Shane R]

I'm not going to comment too much on N.T. Wright's advice because I have no idea the shape the RCC is in throughout the UK. However, starting from the premise that the husband is quite new to Christianity, I don't think his suggestion is a bad option. The guy needs to get immersed in the practice somewhere and learn for a while. If the family can be united in attending Mass, that's a starting place.

I have thought about joining the RCC in the past. I found the average clergy to be incredibly ignorant. The Mass itself, though perhaps somewhat better than it was 15-20 years ago, is too often an uninspiring lackluster affair in much of the US. Sunday school and Bible study is all but nonexistent in most parishes. The people don't form a cohesive community all that often. The stereotype of them coming in 5 minutes after the bells ring and leaving as soon as they've received the eucharist has some truth. There are little cliques that tend to form for those who use the parochial school, or the home schoolers, or the militant pro-life people, or the local business owners. I don't particularly fit with any of those groups.

 

[RileyG]

I'm not going to comment too much on N.T. Wright's advice because I have no idea the shape the RCC is in throughout the UK. However, starting from the premise that the husband is quite new to Christianity, I don't think his suggestion is a bad option. The guy needs to get immersed in the practice somewhere and learn for a while. If the family can be united in attending Mass, that's a starting place.

I have thought about joining the RCC in the past. I found the average clergy to be incredibly ignorant. The Mass itself, though perhaps somewhat better than it was 15-20 years ago, is too often an uninspiring lackluster affair in much of the US. Sunday school and Bible study is all but nonexistent in most parishes. The people don't form a cohesive community all that often. The stereotype of them coming in 5 minutes after the bells ring and leaving as soon as they've received the eucharist has some truth. There are little cliques that tend to form for those who use the parochial school, or the home schoolers, or the militant pro-life people, or the local business owners. I don't particularly fit with any of those groups.

In my diocese, as well as Parish, the priest made it clear he will not give Holy Communion to those who leave before the final blessing.

ODDLY ENOUGH, when I was in college, some Sisters (nuns) would leave after receiving Holy Communion because they had to go to work.

(posting in fellowship)

 

[RamiC]

In my diocese, as well as Parish, the priest made it clear he will not give Holy Communion to those who leave before the final blessing.

ODDLY ENOUGH, when I was in college, some Sisters (nuns) would leave after receiving Holy Communion because they had to go to work.

(posting in fellowship)

I am pretty much with your priest about this, and I would not want to go back out into the world without that last bit. I have it on a page in my day planner too, it makes me feel "sent out".

 

[RamiC]

Sunday school and Bible study is all but nonexistent in most parishes.

Do Catholics tend to send their children to Catholic school?

 

[Shane R]

Do Catholics tend to send their children to Catholic school?

Yes. It's usually heavily subsidized for parish members. If you are not Catholic, the tuition is ~ $9,000 a year.

 

[RileyG]

Do Catholics tend to send their children to Catholic school?

Depends on the area.

 

[The Liturgist]

The Mass itself, though perhaps somewhat better than it was 15-20 years ago, is too often an uninspiring lackluster affair in much of the US.

The only very consistent exception to that among Western Catholics is in TLM parishes, or chapels I guess now, but only the FSSP and I think the ICKSP are ordaining new clergy for the TLM since Traditiones Custodes, and I don’t see how a father with children, or anyone our age, could handle their seminaries, which are of the very robust old fashioned form, very much seminaries for young men. I had considered joining the RCC myself because of the appeal of bi-ritual faculties but I couldn’t see a way in by which I could have avoided being trapped in the Eastern Rite.

 

[Mick116]

As someone that has walked the line between Catholicism and Anglicanism for 20 years, I appreciate Wright's response. Theologically, I retain Anglican convictions, though I entered Roman Catholicism in 2009 after 5 years as an Anglo-Catholic. The Romanism didn't stick, however, and I ended up in a rather progressive independent catholic jurisdiction (the United Ecumenical Catholic Church). My wife remains active in a Roman parish (though she self-identifies as Christian rather than Catholic), I've maintained close friendships in both Catholic and Anglican churches, and am willing to commune in either.

 

[FireDragon76]

I've always felt like N.T. Wright is reacting to a certain kind of modern, individualistic Evangelical pietism (since he's coming out of the Anglican Evangelical tradition), and while he may be a good New Testament scholar, he has holes in his understanding of historical theology and doesn't appreciate how inevitable something like the Reformation really was. The medieval Church was simply going off script in all sorts of ways, exercising a degree of control and imposed uniformity that was unhealthy, all the while pastoral theology was missing-in-action. I don't think Protestantism is beyond criticism in itself, but it at least presents a framework where self-criticism can be fruitful.

Catholicism, on the other hand, has been struggling with coming to terms with that since Vatican I. And it's causing a great deal of scandal: the "Barque of Peter" is leaky and listing, and all that glitters isn't gold.