NT Proof of what it means to be “in Christ”

[The Righterzpen]

Hope you like to read Scripture and strive to understand it.
Let’s start with this … Ecclesiastes 12:13 (NASB)
“The conclusion, when all has been heard, is:
fear God and keep His commandments,
because this applies to every person.”

Paul explains WHO are “in Christ”
Romans 8:1-11 (NKJV)
“There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,
who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
… For to be carnally minded is (spiritual) death,
but to be spiritually minded is (spiritual) life and peace.
… But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit,
if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.
Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
… But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you,
He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies
through His Spirit who dwells in you.”
Those who have the Holy Spirit dwelling within them are “in Christ”.
But, does the Holy Spirit remain in all BACs?

Do these BACs still have the indwelling Holy Spirit?
BACs who are disobedient because of unbelief (Hebrews 3:18-19, 4:3-7).
BACs who are involved in habitual/unrepentant sinning (many verses).
BACs who do not practice righteousness (1 John 2:29, 3:7-10)
BACs who practice lawlessness (Matthew 7:23, 1 John 3:4).
BACs who do not confess/repent of their sins (1 John 1:9, 2 Corinthians 7:8-10).
BACs who become estranged from Christ and fall from grace (Galatians 5:4).

Jesus explains WHO has the Holy Spirit dwelling within them
John 14:15-23 (NKJV)
“If you love Me, keep My commandments.
And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper,
that He may abide with you forever — the Spirit of truth
… you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.
I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
… He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.
And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father,
and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.
… If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him,
and We will come to him and make Our home with him.”
IF you keep Jesus’ commandments …
you will have the Holy Spirit dwelling within you forever.
(The “forever” is for those who continue to keep Jesus’ commandments.)

Jesus reveals WHO bears fruit and remains in Him, and WHO does NOT
John 15:2-6 (NKJV)
“Every branch in Me (i.e. BACs) that does NOT bear fruit He takes away;
… Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself,
unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
… He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit;
for without Me you can do nothing. If anyone does NOT abide in Me,
he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them
and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.”
IF you abide in Jesus, and IF He abides in you, you will bear much fruit.
IF NOT, you will end up in hell along with Satan, his demons, and the unbelievers.

I would say: "It depends".

1. Someone who is living a life of disobedience is not redeemed.
2. Can one lose their salvation? No.
3. Was someone who once "believed" and fell away really redeemed? No.
4. Can believers commit serious sin? Yes.
5. Will they remain in that sin? No.
6. Can someone who's "fallen away" many times come to true faith? Yes.

I believe atonement was limited to the elect.
I believe the elect were predestine to redemption from the foundation of the word.
I believe faith, repentance, and the will to be obedient are all the result of God miraculously raising a once dead soul to spiritual life.
I believe without God's intervening to raise the spiritually dead; no one would be saved.
Man is accountable to God based on the wages of sin that he earns.
God does not predestine someone to hell. (We can all get there on our own just fine! LOL)

 

[Carl Emerson]

What do you think about the John 14 passage in the OP
re: who gets the Holy Spirit to remain in him?

This was spoken before the Holy Spirit came to indwell the believers.

After the resurrection what Jeremiah predicted came true.

Jer 32:40 States this quite clearly.

38“They shall be My people, and I will be their God; 39and I will give them one heart and one way, that they may fear Me always, for their own good and for the good of their children after them. 40“I will make an everlasting covenant with them that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; and I will put the fear of Me in their hearts so that they will not turn away from Me.

All under the New Covenant inherit this promise of the sealing of salvation by the Fear of Him.

Thus born again believers, follow the 'Law of the Spirit' inside of them.

This is also mentioned in Jer 31:
31“Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD. 33“But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the LORD, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34“They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the LORD, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

This anointing within is referred to in John 2
25This is the promise which He Himself made to us: eternal life. 26These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you. 27As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.

and... Romans 8 1Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

So the sealing of salvation is absolute but the eternal rewards vary according to obedience.

 

[BCsenior]

So the sealing of salvation is absolute but the eternal rewards vary according to obedience.

Okay, thanks for your interesting post.
However, does it deal with the trinity of John 14 verses in the OP?
... where Jesus says ...
"If you love Me, you will obey My commandments." (paraphrased)

And in the John 14 passage in the OP, this seems to be
the condition for the Holy Spirit to remain in believers.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Okay, thanks for your interesting post.
However, does it deal with the trinity of John 14 verses in the OP?
... where Jesus says ...
"If you love Me, you will obey My commandments." (paraphrased)

And in the John 14 passage in the OP, this seems to be
the condition for the Holy Spirit to remain in believers.

Yes I think we have underestimated what happens when we are born again.

My belief is that an essential part or the process it yielding our will to His will, giving Him permission to control, to take over and be possessed by Him.

With Him inside urging us on to goodness and obedience and motivated by the love He gives us for Himself combined with the fear of Him inside - He has made the formula unbreakable. Nothing defeats His power to save, nothing defeats the power of his Blood.

The quote If you love Me, you will obey My commandments. then is a statement of fact.

It reminds me of the verse that says that whoever claims to Love God and Hates his brother is a liar.

Such a person doesn't Love God, period. He is not born again. You cant be born again and not love God.

What I have spoken about agrees with John 14 - He clearly says those who love Him will obey Him.

All who are born again do love Him and will obey His voice.

I often pray Lord take me by the ankles and walk me in your right way despite myself.

A born again believer has given Him permission to do this.

We have surrendered our will to His.

However I do note that there are many in the church afraid of total commitment and surrender - I would have to question if they have been truely born again.

 

[BCsenior]

The quote If you love Me, you will obey My commandments
then is a statement of fact.
What I have spoken about agrees with John 14 -
He clearly says those who love Him will obey Him.
All who are born again do love Him and will obey His voice.
However I do note that there are many in the church afraid of total commitment and surrender -
I would have to question if they have been truely born again.

Yes, do you have any idea what percentage of church-goers
are practicing obvious habitual unrepentant sin?
IMO, there are precious few who are not!

 

[timothyu]

I doubt anyone can stop sinning, but they can hate who they are, thus hating the world and favouring the Kingdom as intended.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I doubt anyone can stop sinning, but they can hate who they are, thus hating the world and favouring the Kingdom as intended.

Yes - as Paul stated in Romans 7.

 

[timothyu]

I doubt anyone can stop sinning, but they can hate who they are, thus hating the world and favouring the Kingdom as intended.

Yes - as Paul stated in Romans 7.

I'm also talking in general

 

[bcbsr]

Do these BACs still have the indwelling Holy Spirit?
BACs who are disobedient because of unbelief (Hebrews 3:18-19, 4:3-7).
BACs who are involved in habitual/unrepentant sinning (many verses).
BACs who do not practice righteousness (1 John 2:29, 3:7-10)
BACs who practice lawlessness (Matthew 7:23, 1 John 3:4).
BACs who do not confess/repent of their sins (1 John 1:9, 2 Corinthians 7:8-10).
BACs who become estranged from Christ and fall from grace (Galatians 5:4).

You forgot to mention "BACs" who reject the gospel of grace and opt for salvation by works.

 

[timothyu]

You forgot to mention "BACs" who reject the gospel of grace and opt for salvation by works.

The only grace God had was in giving us an alternate (the Kingdom) to the world of man and Jesus doing His part to bring it about. God's command has always been the same, His way or the highway. No salvation for those who refuse to change their ways from the rebellious ones of man and instead follow the will of God. Jesus said follow His commandments. That is following the will of God.

Claiming the prize without doing so is simply the will of self serving man over the will of God, who as a result are doomed to failure. God didn't change his mind about rebellious man. He just provided an out for those who re-aligned themselves with putting His will over our own. For the rest, what they already see is the only thing they will get.

If putting the will of God before the will of man is work and they don't want to do it, their fate will be the same as a fig tree that takes advantage of life and produces nothing worthwhile except for self.

 

[BCsenior]

You forgot to mention "BACs" who reject the gospel of grace
and opt for salvation by works.

Of course, the gospel of grace is true.
Of course, faith + works = salvation.
Of course, works proves salvation.
Of course, verses like this one are true ...
"Work out your salvation with fear and trembling." (Phil 2:12)
(Sorry, not much grace to be found in that verse
because there's much more to it than just grace!)

 

[timothyu]

Grace is often misrepresented in the same way the upper echelon of the religious right mistake Christianity as power instead of servitude.

 

[Aldebaran]

Grace is often misrepresented in the same way the upper echelon of the religious right mistake Christianity as power instead of servitude.

Grace=unmerited favor=favor that I don't deserve.

 

[timothyu]

Grace=unmerited favor=favor that I don't deserve.

Hence the Kingdom

 

[bcbsr]

Of course, the gospel of grace is true.
Of course, faith + works = salvation.
Of course, works proves salvation.
Of course, verses like this one are true ...
"Work out your salvation with fear and trembling." (Phil 2:12)
(Sorry, not much grace to be found in that verse
because there's much more to it than just grace!)

"Work out" not "Work for". Those who are working "for" their salvation reject the gospel of grace that requires one to abandon faith in one's works.

"To the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness." Rom 4:5

 

[bcbsr]

The only grace God had was in giving us an alternate (the Kingdom) to the world of man and Jesus doing His part to bring it about. God's command has always been the same, His way or the highway. No salvation for those who refuse to change their ways from the rebellious ones of man and instead follow the will of God. Jesus said follow His commandments. That is following the will of God.

Claiming the prize without doing so is simply the will of self serving man over the will of God, who as a result are doomed to failure. God didn't change his mind about rebellious man. He just provided an out for those who re-aligned themselves with putting His will over our own. For the rest, what they already see is the only thing they will get.

If putting the will of God before the will of man is work and they don't want to do it, their fate will be the same as a fig tree that takes advantage of life and produces nothing worthwhile except for self.

You're saying that salvation is a reward for services rendered, which is of course, salvation-by-works.

Actually God has provided a different way. The broad way the proud take is that of salvation-by-works. But the narrow way is salvation by faith apart from works.

"Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works" Rom 4:4-6

"know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified." Gal 2:16

"Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." Rom 3:20-24

"You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace." Gal 5:4

 

[timothyu]

You're saying that salvation is a reward for services rendered,

Nope, it is a result of seeing how backwards the thinking/will of mankind is compared to the ideals/will od God. Man's self serving way for the most part destroys. God's ways fix. But does man care? No, they would prefer to continually put down those, who as a result of abandoning man's will for God's will, and try to make a difference.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Hope you like to read Scripture and strive to understand it.
Let’s start with this … Ecclesiastes 12:13 (NASB)
“The conclusion, when all has been heard, is:
fear God and keep His commandments,
because this applies to every person.”

This passage says nothing about what it means to be "in Christ". And the OP is about NT proof, so why start with the OT?

Paul explains WHO are “in Christ”
Romans 8:1-11 (NKJV)
“There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,
who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
… For to be carnally minded is (spiritual) death,
but to be spiritually minded is (spiritual) life and peace.
… But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit,
if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.
Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
… But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you,
He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies
through His Spirit who dwells in you.”
Those who have the Holy Spirit dwelling within them are “in Christ”.

While correct, this still does not explain what it means to be "in Christ".

Also, Rom 8:1-11 is a list of actions, none of which leads to being "in Christ".

But, does the Holy Spirit remain in all BACs?

Of course He does. Eph 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

2 Cor 1:22 - set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Eph 1-
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Do these BACs still have the indwelling Holy Spirit?
BACs who are disobedient because of unbelief (Hebrews 3:18-19, 4:3-7).
BACs who are involved in habitual/unrepentant sinning (many verses).
BACs who do not practice righteousness (1 John 2:29, 3:7-10)
BACs who practice lawlessness (Matthew 7:23, 1 John 3:4).
BACs who do not confess/repent of their sins (1 John 1:9, 2 Corinthians 7:8-10).
BACs who become estranged from Christ and fall from grace (Galatians 5:4).

Yes, because Eph 1:13,14, Eph 4:30, and 2 Cor 1:22 are true.

Jesus explains WHO has the Holy Spirit dwelling within them
John 14:15-23 (NKJV)
“If you love Me, keep My commandments.
And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper,
that He may abide with you forever — the Spirit of truth
… you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.
I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
… He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.
And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father,
and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.
… If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him,
and We will come to him and make Our home with him.”
IF you keep Jesus’ commandments …
you will have the Holy Spirit dwelling within you forever.

The notion that the indwelling Holy Spirit is based on behavior is unbiblical.

The indwelling of the Spirit is a GUARANTEE for the day of redemption for all believers. As I've just shown from Scripture.

(The “forever” is for those who continue to keep Jesus’ commandments.)

You've provided NO verses that say this.

Jesus reveals WHO bears fruit and remains in Him, and WHO does NOT
John 15:2-6 (NKJV)
“Every branch in Me (i.e. BACs) that does NOT bear fruit He takes away;
… Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself,
unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
… He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit;
for without Me you can do nothing. If anyone does NOT abide in Me,
he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them
and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.”
IF you abide in Jesus, and IF He abides in you, you will bear much fruit.
IF NOT, you will end up in hell along with Satan, his demons, and the unbelievers.

Those who bear fruit are filled with the Spirit, which is different than being indwelt with the Spirit. And "remaining in Him" is a reference to being in fellowship with the Lord, which is the only state where a believer can bear fruit.