Novice Preachers

[Skipper80]

I have noticed that Baptist and Reformed churches will let children give a Bible lecture at the front of the church during services. I have friends who go to churches that hold the same practices. I don't see a problem with encouraging children to explain passages of the Bible or Christian concepts to strengthen their faith, presentation skills, and understanding of the Word, but when it is done in the place of the primary pastor and treated as a sermon, I have a problem with this.

If I go to a doctor for knee surgery, am I going to want a novice surgeon who is new to the job or an experienced, practiced surgeon who has being doing this for many years? Of course the more mature surgeon, and it is the same with who preaches the Word in my church. My salvation is at stake here, and I want a pastor that is a wisened spiritual leader so I can have the best explanation of the Bible every Sunday.

That's what is so great about LCMS Lutheran pastors because they study for years before becoming pastors and then they first become an "under-pastor" to the primary one so they can have some real-life exposure. They are required to demonstrate a secure understanding of theology and the functions of the Lutheran church service before leading their church congregation. It is a very crucial responsibility to hold this position of authority, and I do not think children and beginner lecturers should be viewed in the same way and regarded with the same respect.

 

[Paidiske]

When I was a first year seminary student, I was sent out on field placement, where (among other things) I had to preach a certain number of times. Some of the congregation complained at having a student preacher; surely they should have the best, most excellent preaching available every week? But how do you raise up and give experience to the next generation, unless you are willing to let them start somewhere? Every preacher has to preach for the first time....

I would also argue that preaching is not akin to knee surgery, in that for most members of most congregations, one poor sermon is not actually going to threaten their salvation. And the feedback and care and support of a mature congregation will help that preacher improve and learn and grow.

Personally I don't know that I would be encouraging minors to preach, but at the same time, I think we need to think carefully about how we, as a community, nurture the gifts of preaching.

 

[Skipper80]

When I was a first year seminary student, I was sent out on field placement, where (among other things) I had to preach a certain number of times. Some of the congregation complained at having a student preacher; surely they should have the best, most excellent preaching available every week? But how do you raise up and give experience to the next generation, unless you are willing to let them start somewhere? Every preacher has to preach for the first time....

I would also argue that preaching is not akin to knee surgery, in that for most members of most congregations, one poor sermon is not actually going to threaten their salvation. And the feedback and care and support of a mature congregation will help that preacher improve and learn and grow.

Personally I don't know that I would be encouraging minors to preach, but at the same time, I think we need to think carefully about how we, as a community, nurture the gifts of preaching.

I think prospective pastors should practice as well. They should have lots of practice. That's why Lutheran pastors first become familiar with the functions of the church, the fundamentals of the law and the gospel, and their role as the leader of the church. And even after that, they are an associate pastor to the senior pastor so they can see an experienced role model in action.

I don't know what denomination you are, but LCMS has a great system set in place to assimilate people into the pastoral field. There is a structure of classes, resources, and opportunities that fully support the training and skills needed, so the pastor can be prepared before becoming fully ordained. Feedback from the congregation isn't needed as the primary mode of growth.

Lutheran pastors are not newbies when they give their first sermon. They've already had years of training.

I would say my salvation is pretty important to me, and I trust in the systems that LCMS has set in place to provide quality pastors to Lutheran churches everywhere. I would gladly prefer one of them over a beginner that is just learning on the job

 

[Paidiske]

I don't know what denomination you are, but LCMS has a great system set in place to assimilate people into the pastoral field. There is a structure of classes, resources, and opportunities that fully support the training and skills needed, so the pastor can be prepared before becoming fully ordained. Feedback from the congregation isn't needed as the primary mode of growth.

I'm an Anglican.

I'm fortunate to have had a good and robust formation, but feedback - formal and informal - on preaching was absolutely part of that. (Each field placement had a committee who would fill out feedback forms on your preaching and then you'd get to debrief with them as well. I learned a lot! It also had some comic moments. The first time I preached on field placement, I was incredibly nervous. And one member of my field committee - a retired pharmacist - said to me in the debrief, "Next time, before you preach, take a tranquiliser!" But over time I learned to put the nervousness aside).

Lutheran pastors are not newbies when they give their first sermon. They've already had years of training.

They might have had a lot of training, but the first time you preach, you're a newbie preacher. There are things you can really only learn by doing and reflecting on your own practice.

 

[Skipper80]

They might have had a lot of training, but the first time you preach, you're a newbie preacher. There are things you can really only learn by doing and reflecting on your own practice.

In my denomination, they are not newbies as in they are not inexperienced. Sure, preaching for the first time is a unique test of its own, but pastors are well prepared for it

 

[com7fy8]

That is about preaching . . . what about example??

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

A lot of training can help you to feel you are somehow superior to those you preach to, like you are more because of your position and education. But what about maturity in Jesus? Our character can have a lot to do with how we can preach and how much we will actually minister grace.

If people don't know us personally, how can they feed on our example? Well, it can be done by faith and not by sight . . . by means of our prayer ministering grace. But our maturity can have a lot to do with if and how well we can minister for others to become mature in Jesus >

"Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus. To this end I also labor, striving according to His working which works in me mightily." (Colossians 1:28-29)

Training alone can not do this, in my opinion. There is maturing in laboring according to how God is working within us.

"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

And I note how our Apostle Paul tells us who qualifies to "take care of the church of God" >

"This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?); not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil." (1 Timothy 3:1-7)

There is not much here about being a good preacher, or knowing the Bible. But I see here how a man becomes what God's word means by a person who knows how to take care of people. This is a man who has learned at home, as his seminary, how to take care of people in a family way, like he has learned at home . . . with his wife helping him, so he knows how to labor with a godly woman . . . . not as an isolated individual.

And it looks like Paul and Sylvanus and Timothy learned from nursing mothers how to care for the children of God >

"But we were gentle among you, just as a nursing mother cherishes her own children." (1 Thessalonians 2:7)

So, the Thessalonians knew these great men personally, I would say, so they could feed on their example. To me, it seems these men had nursing mothers as part of their seminary training for laboring in our Heavenly Father's family caring and sharing way.

After all, God is called "our Father". And Jesus is His "Son". And the Holy Spirit labors to care for the children of God, and to prepare us for our Groom Jesus soon-coming. So, the Holy Spirit, though called "He", does have a mother's functions of caring for us children while preparing us for our Groom. Usually, in the cultures I have known, men do not have the function of bridal preparation

So, I can see, then, how God's ministering is a family example labor, with the man's lady helping him to find out how to relate Biblically in a close relationship so they can minister to other couples, and he learns with his children how to rule. And then his family can minister this example. And by the time he has developed and matured in such preparation and qualification, he has become "blameless" the way God's family and all-loving love cures our character.

We have people like this, but they can be sitting in the back of the church. And they can be ministering to and mentoring the ones at the front.

Meanwhile some number of ordained ministers actually are financial and building managers but who can preach. But that extra stuff can wear a person down, and we need to be "examples" of how Jesus gives us "rest for your souls" >

"'Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.'" (Matthew 11:29)

So, learning this is essential . . . not likely to come only with training and knowledge, but with how God cures our character to be submissive in His peace. Then is when we can obey Colossians 3:15 >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

If people are getting ministered this, they can be mature enough to listen to and benefit from any child of God preaching, at any age. Because every child of God is able to minister God's own grace >

"Be hospitable to one another without grumbling. As each one has received a gift, minister it to one another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God." (1 Peter 4:9-10)

Children might preach about what they are learning at home, including about how to relate in a close relationship and how Jesus has us loving any and all people as ourselves, and other nations as our own, in His all-loving love; hearing if children are preaching this could be an interesting way to have accountability!

 

[David Lamb]

I have noticed that Baptist and Reformed churches will let children give a Bible lecture at the front of the church during services. I have friends who go to churches that hold the same practices. I don't see a problem with encouraging children to explain passages of the Bible or Christian concepts to strengthen their faith, presentation skills, and understanding of the Word, but when it is done in the place of the primary pastor and treated as a sermon, I have a problem with this.

Because Baptists hold to the autonomy under Christ of the local church, there may be some Baptist churches where children give bible lectures, but I haven't come across one. It's certainly not common here in the UK.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

I have noticed that Baptist and Reformed churches will let children give a Bible lecture at the front of the church during services. I have friends who go to churches that hold the same practices. I don't see a problem with encouraging children to explain passages of the Bible or Christian concepts to strengthen their faith, presentation skills, and understanding of the Word, but when it is done in the place of the primary pastor and treated as a sermon, I have a problem with this.

If I go to a doctor for knee surgery, am I going to want a novice surgeon who is new to the job or an experienced, practiced surgeon who has being doing this for many years? Of course the more mature surgeon, and it is the same with who preaches the Word in my church. My salvation is at stake here, and I want a pastor that is a wisened spiritual leader so I can have the best explanation of the Bible every Sunday.

That's what is so great about LCMS Lutheran pastors because they study for years before becoming pastors and then they first become an "under-pastor" to the primary one so they can have some real-life exposure. They are required to demonstrate a secure understanding of theology and the functions of the Lutheran church service before leading their church congregation. It is a very crucial responsibility to hold this position of authority, and I do not think children and beginner lecturers should be viewed in the same way and regarded with the same respect.

I think you have pretty much answered your own question. No one (in your example) is giving a child "authority" to open and expound on the scriptures, to speak "authoritatively" to a congregation. If a school teacher has a child write a report and have him or her give a presentation about this report to the rest of the class, no one implies that the teacher has abdicated their responsibility for teaching to this child does it? Same goes with a child who may have studied a (likely assigned) passage of scripture and is giving an "oral report" (what I would call it) to their congregation. I would say it is more for the benefit of the child than the congregation (aside from some encouragement and inspiration).

I do agree that so many take a flippant attitude towards the pulpit ministry and the office of a Pastor/Elder. There are many who are anti-intellectual, anti-scholarship, and pretty much "anti-edgycashun" (and are right proud of their ignorance) but there is also the opposite of the extreme where one places excessive emphasis upon and giving authority to scholarship rather than the authority and sufficiency of the scriptures. Far too often, such "higher education" turns men (and women) who are nothing but unregenerate reprobates who deny the inspiration and authority of the scriptures, and cannot preach their way out of a wet paper bag! I have interacted with Catholic seminary students preparing for the priesthood saying that they often begin with an undergrad degree in philosophy prior to their seminary training meaning they will likely examine the scriptures through the lens of such philosophical thinking rather than vice-versa as it ought to be. They are pretty much educated away from the ability to read and study the scriptures for themselves!

I would say that the Reformed crowd (Reformed Baptist, PCA Presbyterian, Etc.) are quite balanced regarding their education requirements for a pastoral candidate (MDiv is typical) along with the scriptural qualifications set forth in 1 Tim 3 and Tit 1. A solid education from a good seminary should give a bible teacher/preacher confidence to study and expound upon the scriptures with clarity and authority. LCMS Lutherans can be good folk aside from a few peculiarities.

 

[Stephen3141]

I have noticed that Baptist and Reformed churches will let children give a Bible lecture at the front of the church during services. I have friends who go to churches that hold the same practices. I don't see a problem with encouraging children to explain passages of the Bible or Christian concepts to strengthen their faith, presentation skills, and understanding of the Word, but when it is done in the place of the primary pastor and treated as a sermon, I have a problem with this.

If I go to a doctor for knee surgery, am I going to want a novice surgeon who is new to the job or an experienced, practiced surgeon who has being doing this for many years? Of course the more mature surgeon, and it is the same with who preaches the Word in my church. My salvation is at stake here, and I want a pastor that is a wisened spiritual leader so I can have the best explanation of the Bible every Sunday.

That's what is so great about LCMS Lutheran pastors because they study for years before becoming pastors and then they first become an "under-pastor" to the primary one so they can have some real-life exposure. They are required to demonstrate a secure understanding of theology and the functions of the Lutheran church service before leading their church congregation. It is a very crucial responsibility to hold this position of authority, and I do not think children and beginner lecturers should be viewed in the same way and regarded with the same respect.

Children should never be teachers.
That perverts the biblical language of teaching, and teachers.