Nothingness ain't so bad

[Greenling]

Nothingness ain't so bad. Discuss.

I think it was Arthur James Balfour (a former UK Prime Minister, 1902-1905), who when his life was drawing to a close - and despite having been a man very concerned with many important issues during his life - reportedly said "You know - nothing matters much. And in the end, nothing matters at all."

Nothingness is a concept I have contemplated many a time - and which I have often promised myself I would read about and write about. Not nothingness as a depressingly miserable condition to be avoided or battled against or dismissed as an unpalatable concept - but as a totally stress-free totally relaxed attitude, uncrowded with angst and guilt and to be willingly advocated. Recognizing that there are problems and tragedies and obstacles - but never presuming them to be anything more than incidentals.

I am by nature a very relaxed peacable fellow who smiles almost all the time. I feel sorry for those who have been conditioned to believe that they must spend a lifetime looking for reasons and meanings. It seems cruel to send people along such paths. A bit like allowing a dog to chase after a ball that you haven't really thrown - or setting children the task of searching the garden for hidden easter eggs when you haven't actually hidden any. I have never felt inclined to go that way.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

The inference from "when I am dead nothing will matter" to "therefore when I am alive, nothing matters" is lacking vital premise, and I think that that premise is going to be catastrophically false. And I sadly feel that something like that is being debated here.

 

[Eudaimonist]

The inference from "when I am dead nothing will matter" to "therefore when I am alive, nothing matters" is lacking vital premise, and I think that that premise is going to be catastrophically false.

Agreed.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Have you read Edgar Allen Poe's "The Premature Burial"?

It may be asserted, without hesitation, that no event is so terribly well adapted to inspire the supremeness of bodily and of mental distress, as is burial before death.

 

[JohnCR]

Nothingness ain't so bad. Discuss.

I think it was Arthur James Balfour (a former UK Prime Minister, 1902-1905), who when his life was drawing to a close - and despite having been a man very concerned with many important issues during his life - reportedly said "You know - nothing matters much. And in the end, nothing matters at all."

Nothingness is a concept I have contemplated many a time - and which I have often promised myself I would read about and write about. Not nothingness as a depressingly miserable condition to be avoided or battled against or dismissed as an unpalatable concept - but as a totally stress-free totally relaxed attitude, uncrowded with angst and guilt and to be willingly advocated. Recognizing that there are problems and tragedies and obstacles - but never presuming them to be anything more than incidentals.

I am by nature a very relaxed peacable fellow who smiles almost all the time. I feel sorry for those who have been conditioned to believe that they must spend a lifetime looking for reasons and meanings. It seems cruel to send people along such paths. A bit like allowing a dog to chase after a ball that you haven't really thrown - or setting children the task of searching the garden for hidden easter eggs when you haven't actually hidden any. I have never felt inclined to go that way.

Some would say the joy isn't in the destination but the journey itself. If you don't find happiness in taking such a journey of introspection, then don't

 

[Greenling]

The inference from "when I am dead nothing will matter" to "therefore when I am alive, nothing matters" is lacking vital premise, and I think that that premise is going to be catastrophically false. And I sadly feel that something like that is being debated here.

GS - I take your point about one man's reference to importances at life's end being perhaps inappropriate in relation to importances earlier in life. But I think you are wrong to be sad at the topic being debated. Debating it here allows scope for the view I expressed to be challenged. If the challenges are good, the premise loses favour, and readers possibly benefit. Denial of debate is surely sadder.

 

[quatona]

I am by nature a very relaxed peacable fellow who smiles almost all the time. I feel sorry for those who have been conditioned to believe that they must spend a lifetime looking for reasons and meanings. It seems cruel to send people along such paths. A bit like allowing a dog to chase after a ball that you haven't really thrown - or setting children the task of searching the garden for hidden easter eggs when you haven't actually hidden any. I have never felt inclined to go that way.

In my world "meaning" is not something you have to find but have the chance to create. Personally, I find creating meaning worthwhile - ymmv.

As for "nothingness" - I feel absolutely no urge to contemplate on this concept. Just by giving it a name nothing doesn´t become something.

 

[Greenling]

Personally, I find creating meaning worthwhile...

There's nowt wrong with having a hobby. My concern is with people who (wrongly in my view) attempt to convince other people that we must all strive to find a certain something - and that there is something defficient in those who choose to not spend an angst-ridden lifetime doing so.

 

[Eudaimonist]

My concern is with people who (wrongly in my view) attempt to convince other people that we must all strive to find a certain something - and that there is something defficient in those who choose to not spend an angst-ridden lifetime doing so.

If one is not angst-ridden exactly as one is, then you have a point. Perhaps one already has sufficient meaning.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[quatona]

There's nowt wrong with having a hobby. My concern is with people who (wrongly in my view) attempt to convince other people that we must all strive to find a certain something - and that there is something defficient in those who choose to not spend an angst-ridden lifetime doing so.

Well, holding the conviction that there must be inherent meaning to things is one issue, trying to convince others that there is such is another. Given the subject I think the latter follows necessarily from the former.
Personally, I am more inclined to try to understand why people hold this conviction rather than to be annoyed by their conviction attempts. Furthermore, rather than merely being concerned or annoyed, I´d like to offer them viable alternative views.

All that said, I agree with you in that I feel that the urge to search for inherent meaning must be a troublesome condition.

 

[Tinker Grey]

All that said, I agree with you in that I feel that the urge to search for inherent meaning must be a troublesome condition.

Agreed.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

There's nowt wrong with having a hobby. My concern is with people who (wrongly in my view) attempt to convince other people that we must all strive to find a certain something - and that there is something defficient in those who choose to not spend an angst-ridden lifetime doing so.

I think that it is impossible to live without meaning or purpose, you could not intend to type, or even know what a keyborad was for, without meaning or purpose. Maybe you are talking about the lack of ultimate reasons or meanings, ones from which we can discover or deduce a frame of moral and existential reference? Sartre springs to mind:

Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.”

Sartre would have experienced angst in the face of having to choose, having completely free choice arising from the emptiness of his nature, having to have a purpose ex nihilo and having to live within a world of even relative meaning. You say that there is an alternative route? You find solace in freeedom and nothingness, maybe like a Zen master might?

 

[IntolerantSociopath]

Ray Brassier once wrote,

"Philosophy would do well to desist from issuing any further injunctions about the need to re-establish the meaningfulness of existence, the purposefulness of life, or mend the shattered concord between man and nature. It should strive to be more than a sop to the pathetic twinge of human self-esteem. Nihilism is not an existential quandary but a speculative opportunity."

 

[Im_A]

Nothingness ain't so bad. Discuss.

I think it was Arthur James Balfour (a former UK Prime Minister, 1902-1905), who when his life was drawing to a close - and despite having been a man very concerned with many important issues during his life - reportedly said "You know - nothing matters much. And in the end, nothing matters at all."

Nothingness is a concept I have contemplated many a time - and which I have often promised myself I would read about and write about. Not nothingness as a depressingly miserable condition to be avoided or battled against or dismissed as an unpalatable concept - but as a totally stress-free totally relaxed attitude, uncrowded with angst and guilt and to be willingly advocated. Recognizing that there are problems and tragedies and obstacles - but never presuming them to be anything more than incidentals.

I am by nature a very relaxed peacable fellow who smiles almost all the time. I feel sorry for those who have been conditioned to believe that they must spend a lifetime looking for reasons and meanings. It seems cruel to send people along such paths. A bit like allowing a dog to chase after a ball that you haven't really thrown - or setting children the task of searching the garden for hidden easter eggs when you haven't actually hidden any. I have never felt inclined to go that way.

Contemplation does not mean you know what it is like for none of us know.

Why is it the religious, the spiritual types of people think they know what something feels like after death pre-death?

 

[Greenling]

Why is it the religious, the spiritual types of people think they know what something feels like after death pre-death?

Conditioning.

 

[Im_A]

Conditioning.

So in other words:
You condition yourself to feel nothingness and your a Christian with the belief of the afterlife as it is? Counter productive, or productive for you to maintain faith.

It makes no sense.

Or was the OP just some patronizing attempt to discuss with non-believers?

I wish I wasn't coming across as rude as I am but it is just something that flabbergasts me to no end.

 

[Greenling]

Sorry Ima, but having read and reread your last post I can't understand the first sentence. I'm not a christian and don't believe in an afterlife. Can't quite see where you got the idea I was. Apologies if I've confused you, or if my previous one-word answer was based on a misunderstanding of that previous question.

 

[Im_A]

Sorry Ima, but having read and reread your last post I can't understand the first sentence. I'm not a christian and don't believe in an afterlife. Can't quite see where you got the idea I was. Apologies if I've confused you, or if my previous one-word answer was based on a misunderstanding of that previous question.

You have a non-denominational Christian Faith Icon! What else are we supposed to think?

That you consider 'Christian' part of your family lineage?

 

[Greenling]

You have a non-denominational Christian Faith Icon! What else are we supposed to think?

Ah - I see. Yes. Please put that down to me being not fully aware of how things work around here. I thought I had corrected that but obviously not. Will see if I can do so now. I apologise for the confusion.

EDIT: I have now corrected the various indicators. I think.

 

[Gracchus]

I had some minor surgery. I started counting backwards from a hundred... and woke up a few hours later. Nothing in between...no dreams. ("For in that sleep of death, what dreams may come...") I'd settle for that.