"Nothing today justifies a war. This region really does not need another war.

[Aviyah]

what i dont get is ppl are willing to just sit by and wait to find out what hussain has in store for us, it doesnt mater what country you are in he dont care as long as he can kill as many ppl as he can, look at the kurds he killed women and children he has no concinces,and everyone who thinks hussian is some innocent victem that everyone is picking on oh pooor man everyone is picking on him whaaa

he had one of his own famliy members murdered do you think he whould hessitate kill you and your famliy no he whouldnt so all of you who think that he is so innecent should stop and smell the womd becasue its coming to a neighborhood near you if we dont go in

and, as far as allies go we only have them when they want something from us like money and military support but then when we need them such as now they turn on us and stab us in the back untill they want more then their back on our door step like a dog begging for a treat


and to those who are not in the military if i t wasnt for them we whouldnt be the Untied States of America they risk thier lives to protect you all and all you can do is complain and whine America this America that and the same goes for those of you who dont live in this country just think if it wasnt for the AMERICANS who whould fight your battles? certianly not YOU

your goverment whould be running to us for help so its time to be a little more gratefull to us instead of stabbing us in the back,all the time and wanting something for nothng i wonder how many billions of $ every country is in debt to us i m sure quite a few and yet everyone wants more of our moeny and if you dont get it yaall go of stomping your feet untill you do get it or your goverment steals it from us


i could care less of what ppl thought about Americans becasue what they think dont mater all that maters is that we take out hussian before he takes out US and if you dont liek america dont buy our goods and we will stop sending you all food etc i cant belive how ungratefulll ppl can get both here in the us and those who benefit from our money in other countrys


yes America is sooooooooooo mean to ppl

 

[Auntie]

Yesterday at 10:05 PM strathyboy said this in Post #7 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=645584#post645584)


Hussein is hardly the threat Hitler was.

Yes, let's wait until he becomes as strong as Hitler, let him take out a few European countries, Israel too of course, and THEN we'll get him!

By that time, Hussein will def have nuclear power, so we can all enjoy a world nuclear war!

 

[Aviyah]

Today at 01:26 AM Auntie said this in Post #22 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=646037#post646037)

Yes, let's wait until he becomes as strong as Hitler, let him take out a few European countries, Israel too of course, and THEN we'll get him!

By that time, Hussein will def have nuclear power, so we can all enjoy a world nuclear war!

naw he whouldnt do that hussain is a poor innocent man everyone is picking on and we should feel sorry for him, i say if the Europeans want to wait i say let them then we can say we told you so though i rather not sit back on my laurals and wait

 

[tamtam92]

If it wasn't for Americans you would have put that post up in German, if your grandparents had still been around to have your parents.

When DeGaulle told the US Army to pull out of France and was asked if that included all the WW II veterans buried over there he didn't know what to say.

If it wasn't for Pearl Harbor Americans wouldn't have care what was happening in "old" Europe.
Oviously you don't know what war means for a country. I means destruction. Not only two big towers that collapse (which you know is extremely difficult to swallow), but thousands of houses, plus several centuries old buildings ; the country's heritage is deeply touched.
You know in France there are many buildings that still have the scars of german and allies bullets. We cannot forget what happened this time.

Yet Saddam is very different from Hitler. As far as I know, he is not invading other countries (except Koweit, but that's finished, no ?)
There's no comparison. There's no evidence against Hussein.

I am more than ready for America to shake the dust off, and let France take care of France. The same goes for Germany, Belgium, Greece, Canada, etc., etc., etc.

America has no friends, that I know of. Except maybe Australia, but who knows. I am sick and tired of so called "friends" of America, baloney, America has no friends.

OK. Shake the dust in your own country, there's work to do. Let others alone...
I don't understand why America wants this war. I've tried to, but I don't see any good reason. Troubling.

When will you try to understand why you've "no friends" (which i don't believe) ?
Your imperialism don't let them express their opinion !
Look ! Germany, Russia and France are claiming that's poosible to avert war. is that just for fun ?
Instead of starting thinking, Bush, Powell and Co are beginning to say that's stupid, there's nothing to do, etc.
Is that smart ?

Well, Bush goverment has decided to go to war, and he won't change his opinion. I don't think he's able to.

Someone who don't let others be right is a dictator.

 

[Evangelion]

tamtam -

Oviously you don't know what war means for a country. I means destruction. Not only two big towers that collapse (which you know is extremely difficult to swallow), but thousands of houses, plus several centuries old buildings ; the country's heritage is deeply touched.

You know in France there are many buildings that still have the scars of german and allies bullets. We cannot forget what happened this time.

Amen to that.

The problem with America, of course, is that she's never actually felt the effects of a war first-hand. She wasn't bombed, she didn't have tanks running through her streets and her citizens weren't herded into ghettos.

It is easy for Americans to maintain a romantic view of war, because they've never actually experienced it on their own soil.

 

[chickenman]

and to those who are not in the military if i t wasnt for them we whouldnt be the Untied States of America they risk thier lives to protect you all and all you can do is complain and whine America this America that and the same goes for those of you who dont live in this country just think if it wasnt for the AMERICANS who whould fight your battles? certianly not YOU

what battles?

we're not at war with anyone, its the americans who want OUR help in starting a war with iraq

america doesn't need allies to invade iraq, it wants allies for purely diplomatic reasons, and yet americans are annoyed because a lot of those non-american countries don't agree with them

how dare they disagree with america

 

[JillLars]

You know, it seems that there are a lot of soldiers past and present who have not only seen war, but participated in it. Many of them are still for this war...why is that...to prevent more attacks from happening on our soil. You cannot forget what has happened in the past, yet everyone expects us american's to forget about 9/11 and let this one slide. I don't think that's a very good attitude to have.

Do a little research on Saddam and you will see that in almost every one of his speeches he talks about taking down america, and using his weapons on us. Not France, Not Australia, but America!!

Now there is evidence that Saddam has wmd, what evidence, him handing orders down to use the weapons on invading forces. How can he use biological and chemical agents on invading soldiers if he doesn't have them. And if we don't invade how long is it until he will find ways to strike us with them. Saddam is a war hungry maniac...don't doubt for a second that he would use them on us.

And as I recall America helps her allies during times of war with more than just its military forces, we helped many other countries with supplies that they needed and food and whatever else we could provide. Many times we provide those things before ever sending troops in.

 

[Evangelion]

*Ahem*

Do a little research on Saddam and you will see that in almost every one of his speeches he talks about taking down america, and using his weapons on us. Not France, Not Australia, but America!!

Big talk from a tiny dictator.

There is no way in the world that this pathetic little man could strike America. He simply does not have the resources. Remember the Gulf War? He was thrashed soundly within the space of a few weeks. Most of his army ran away - and those which didn't, simply surrended.

I simply cannot understand why Americans are so scared of Hussein.

 

[chickenman]

saddam doesn't have the missile technology to launch anything at america

 

[Evangelion]

You can tell them that, but they don't listen, you know.

They believe Hollywood. The real world's just too challenging.

 

[Nelzador]

You have to look at the nature of French politics. France does not want to be seen to just bow and follow the United States blindly, as Britain is made out to be doing. What it's doing is positioning itself sideways, in order to give the impression that it's independant and not gun-ho in it's approach. Don't forget that when the curtain raises, France will want a piece of the action, because they have economic reasons for wanting to be involved in Iraq. Don't be fooled into believing they are pacifistic in all of this. They aren't. France & Iraq did good business pre-Gulf War and they want to do business with them still, but an American led invasion and American supported government would harm French interests, as well as Russian and German business.

Now, I expect the French will want to eventually join in with the U.S. and Britain. I believe it's already sent out or is intending to send out it's aircraft Carrier Charles de Gaulle on exercises with the Americans in the Mediterranean and it's only a matter of time, before they prepare their Airborne forces for potential hit and run actions in Iraq. Let's face it, there are only three Western Armies capable of fighting a global war and that's America, Britain & France. Germany has the troops, but it doesn't have the combat effectivness or tactical outlooks. It's pretty much a self-defense force not unlike the Japanese.

If France chooses to stay out of the whole conflict, then it will lose out on any economic gains it can make from being part of an occupying force. War is business, whether people like it or not.

 

[tamtam92]

I think that's true. That's a pity.
But it doesn't mean France is for war. It just means we don't have the choice. American rule. Too bad.

While it's possible, let us make our voice heard. I hope Chirac will go to far against this war to change his mind afterwards. I hope... I'm naturally optimistic.

I hope one day we will get out of american oppression... But that's purely human thought. (I have a dream... )

 

[bigat]

Today at 02:27 AM chickenman said this in Post #18

the majority of australians disagree with supporting bush's war on iraq, the guy in charge of our country is bush's little lapdog though

what the people think obviously doesn't matter too much

I must say I agree w/ you on this one chickenman!  It doesn't seem to matter what the people think!

Once they get elected they could care less about us. 

 

[Ajnin]

I'm sure France is protesting the upcoming war strictly based on posturing, and is in no way interested in humanitarian concerns of the region, not to mention the destabilizing effect removing Saddam might have on the area. Once the war starts I'm sure the economic mind of France will take over and they'll join in on the war. Ditto for Germany, Russia, China etc. etc. etc.

Also, America does not follow hollywood, if you are refering to listening to the news without question and accepting spin. Hollywood produces movies, not news. Most major news organizations in America are based on the East coast, Atlanta, New York, Washington, etc. etc. And besides, if America listened to Hollywood, Battlefield Earth would have been a major hit.

 

[Gunny]

Today at 06:34 AM Ajnin said this in Post #34 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=646152#post646152)

And besides, if America listened to Hollywood, Battlefield Earth would have been a major hit.

Ajnin, that's pretty darn funny, lol.

 

[Gunny]

French Kiss-Off
If you think the French diplomats were bad yesterday, wait until you get a load of their TV coverage of Powell's speech.
by David Brooks
02/06/2003


David Brooks, senior editor





I MADE THE MISTAKE of watching French news the night of Colin Powell's presentation before the Security Council. The report on Powell's speech on A2, which is the second most important French channel, wasn't too bad. There was a sneering summary of Powell's argument that there is al Qaeda activity in Baghdad. "As proof, Secretary Powell presented a photograph of a man," the broadcast reported. Naturally, there was no mention of the dramatic footage of an Iraqi-owned but French-made Mirage jet spraying chemical weapons. But overall the tone was fair.

Then they brought on a single "expert" to analyze Powell's presentation. This fellow, who looked to be about 25 and quite pleased with himself, was completely dismissive. The Powell presentation was a mere TV show, he sniffed. It's impossible to trust any of the intelligence data Powell presented because the CIA is notorious for lying and manipulation. The presenter showed a photograph of a weapons plant, and then the same site after it had been sanitized and the soil scraped. The expert was unimpressed: The Americans could simply have lied about the dates when the pictures were taken. Maybe the clean site is actually the earlier picture, he said.

That was depressing enough. Then there were a series of interviews with French politicians of the left and right. They were worse. At least the TV expert had acknowledged that Powell did present some evidence, even if he thought it was fabricated. The politicians responded to Powell's address as if it had never taken place. They simply ignored what Powell said and repeated that there is no evidence that Saddam has weapons of mass destruction and that, in any case, the inspection system is effective.

This was not a response. It was simple obliviousness, a powerful unwillingness to confront the question honestly. This made the politicians seem impervious to argument, reason, evidence, or anything else. Maybe in the bowels of the French elite there are people rethinking their nation's position, but there was no hint of it on the evening news.

Which made me think that maybe we are being ethnocentric. As good, naive Americans, we think that if only we can show the world the seriousness of the threat Saddam poses, then they will embrace our response. In our good, innocent way, we assume that in persuading our allies we are confronted with a problem of understanding.

But suppose we are confronted with a problem of courage? Perhaps the French and the Germans are simply not brave enough to confront Saddam. In that case every time we show them what a serious threat Saddam poses, they will become less likely to join the American led coalition because they won't want to run the serious risks the operation will entail.

Or suppose we are confronted with a problem of character? Perhaps the French and the Germans understand the risk Saddam poses to the world order. Perhaps they know that they are in danger as much as anybody. They simply would rather see American men and women--rather than French and German men and women--dying to preserve their safety. In this circumstance too, Colin Powell's presentation would have done nothing to persuade them to join the coalition. Far better, from this cynical perspective, to signal that you will not take on the terrorists--so as to earn their good will amidst the uncertain times ahead.

Maybe I'm just fired up by the newscast. But it is certainly true that we have to continue to try on other mentalités. As we confront Saddam, we have to continually imagine how he is thinking. (For example, from his vantage point it may be better to die in a massive nuclear holocaust, prompted by his own chemical attack, than from an unheroic bullet to the head.) And we have to try on the potential mentalités of our "friends" and "allies," who may understand the case against Saddam very well, but respond to it in ways we might find alien or repulsive.


David Brooks is a senior editor at The Weekly Standard.

 

[datan]

that's one of the most self-righteous and self-serving articles I've read in a long while

 

[TheBear]

Yesterday at 04:44 PM tamtam92 said this in Post #1 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=644818#post644818)

I'm happy there's someone to be in the way of americans for one !

Actually, it's three countries out of nineteen, who decided to 'be in the way', and out of step with the other sixteen countries.

But, what seems to be more important to you, regarding how to propperly handle the situation in Iraq, is your glee in the idea of getting in the way of Americans. I sense that I am dealing with a person who, for whatever the issue, relishes in anti-American sentiment. And that is truly sad.

 

[Evangelion]

Don't be so oversensitive.

 

[JillLars]

some people will never learn