Any interest in resuming discussion on the topic of this thread -- Romans 14? I'm fully aware of the old covenant practices regarding food, but I was hoping to explore Romans 14 on a deeper level.
BFA
BFA
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Nothing is unclean??
- Thread starter Byfaithalone1
- Start date
Steve Petersen
Senior Veteran
IMO, giving way for the weaker brother puts him in charge. Does that seem right? Might it not enable the baser instincts in him?
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I am going to put my thoughtsin here without reading the next posts in presonse, which is always dangerous. So forgive any duplicating and away we go!
Well, I think we have to lookat the situation. Noah, everything but what was in the ark was destoryed. growing back, but probably not ready to eat. So they ahd to eat something.
The COI were waundering through the wilderness for 40 years, certain things were just unsanitary......just not a doable. Yes, God could have kept the meat fresh, etc., but when I think of the mentality of the COI, I don't believe that was the object lesson He was trying to give them. There was sooo much they didn't comprehend already. Remember God only kept the food fresh for them for Sabbath, not everyday.
Different situations, different rules.
Well, I think we have to lookat the situation. Noah, everything but what was in the ark was destoryed. growing back, but probably not ready to eat. So they ahd to eat something.
The COI were waundering through the wilderness for 40 years, certain things were just unsanitary......just not a doable. Yes, God could have kept the meat fresh, etc., but when I think of the mentality of the COI, I don't believe that was the object lesson He was trying to give them. There was sooo much they didn't comprehend already. Remember God only kept the food fresh for them for Sabbath, not everyday.
Different situations, different rules.
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Are you suggesting unclean meats spoil faster than clean meats? I don't' think that's the case.
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I've always found this line of reasoning very interesting but not well thought through...
First of all, assuming that man up until the flood had not eaten meat, God could have provided Noah with sustenance after they came off the ark.
Secondly, and most importantly to this idea of there being nothing outside the ark to eat, what did the vast multitude of of animals that came off the ark eat? God must have provided an accelerated renewal of the flora and fauna in order for the animals to survive. Remember that the dove came back with an olive branch... something that would have been destroyed on a world covered with water.
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That's interesting. I suppose that could be the case. I would have thought and intervention like manna would have been mentioned but you never know. I suppose we'll have to wait to ask him ourselves to find out for sure.
There was a fresh layer of rich silt soil everywhere I think the vegetation would have grown back quickly.
There was also food on the ark. I suspect there was enough to sustain the animals also until some of the vegetation grew back, but really things like grasses, that most of the animals eat, grows pretty fast. It's the food that man eats that takes awhile to grow. Personally I believe the animals on the arc were very young animals so they were smaller, took less room, and also ate less.
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Back on topic. As per the title of this thread. There is nothing in this verse that states that what God has deemed unclean has changed, only we should not judge others for their own ideas. Distinctions of clean and unclean are made throughout the bible Genesis to Revelation, that would be a pretty good indicator that God still makes a distinction between the two.
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No, no, but that in general for the entire journey laws/rule were given according to their situation, including climate.
Noah was quite a different situation. Everything was destroyed except those animals in ark. It is implied that basically Noah and his family had to live off of what was in the ark, until the earth was replenished with vegetation and animals. No record of God raining down manna or quail for them.
Now, God could have done anything He wanted, such as allow the clean meat to stay fresh longer. However, it is kind of implied that the COI did not even eat the cattle, etc. that they brought with them out of Egypt, clean or unclean. Why was that? We know they had them, because they used them for sacrifices. They complained to Moses about starving. then complained about they were tired of manna and wanted meat. Did they begin their journey eating any meat? It is pretty clear they were basically vegetarians while eating on the manna. I knowthis is a bit off topic. Just some questions to think about.
Noah was quite a different situation. Everything was destroyed except those animals in ark. It is implied that basically Noah and his family had to live off of what was in the ark, until the earth was replenished with vegetation and animals. No record of God raining down manna or quail for them.
Now, God could have done anything He wanted, such as allow the clean meat to stay fresh longer. However, it is kind of implied that the COI did not even eat the cattle, etc. that they brought with them out of Egypt, clean or unclean. Why was that? We know they had them, because they used them for sacrifices. They complained to Moses about starving. then complained about they were tired of manna and wanted meat. Did they begin their journey eating any meat? It is pretty clear they were basically vegetarians while eating on the manna. I knowthis is a bit off topic. Just some questions to think about.
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No, no now we know that vegetation was beginning to grow, but we also know that Noah got off the ark planting crops, etc.(well, looks like the first thing was a vineyard...LOL). The dove had an olive branch, does it say the olives were on the branch? Once, again we have no indication of God intervening to supply sustenance, as we did with the COI. Instead is we have a story in this case of them being patient, waiting in the ark, as the water subsided and things began to grow. In the case of the COI their request were granted intantaneously.
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I think there's some truth in that. However, it seems that folks sometime assume that the passage is directed to those who eat meat (and to some extent it is). However, this passage seems to be primarily directed to those who eat only vegetables.
BFA
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As I indicated previously, I agree completely that Romans 14 cuts both ways. However, the passage does identify one group as being one "whose faith is weak."
BFA
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BFA,
Yes, the herb eater and the observer of days is presented as being weak in the faith, thus we who are mature in Jesus Christ must needs watch out for these baby elephants as they walk underneath our feet.
Dealing with the adolescents who are "weak in the faith" is more difficult, as we can see from the history of Paul's experience that the Lord has preserved for us. The adolescents desire to rule the family as they live for their personal pleasure and aggrandizement.
Joe
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I hear you. Although we all have much to learn and none of us understand, it is generally helpful when the strong mentor the weak and not the other way around.
BFA
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Matt 15:14
Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
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The context of Matthew 15:14 . . . .
"You hypocrites, rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you:
8'THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS,
BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME.
9'BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME,
TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.'"
10After Jesus called the crowd to Him, He said to them, "Hear and understand.
11"It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man." 12Then the disciples came and said to Him, "Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this statement?"
BFA8'THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS,
BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME.
9'BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME,
TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.'"
10After Jesus called the crowd to Him, He said to them, "Hear and understand.
11"It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man." 12Then the disciples came and said to Him, "Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this statement?"
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BFA,
Truly, the weak battery will be charged by the stronger battery until they are equalized.
The big elephants are careful not to step on the baby elephants.
Rom 15:1-2
1 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification. KJV
This is the way that Jesus saves us. Justification is with God. Salvation is in the family of the son of man.
Peter had faith, but his faith had not converted into serving the weak.
Luke 22:31-34
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
33 And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death.
34 And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.KJV
Joe
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Message received and I agree. However, I see a difference between "mentoring" and "stepping on."
BFA
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