Nothing is unclean??

[Byfaithalone1]

How do you understand the bolded sections?

1Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions.

2One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only.
3The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him.
4Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.
6He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.
7For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself;
8for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.
9For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
10But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.
11For it is written,
"AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME,
AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD."
12So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.
13Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this--not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother's way.
14I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died.
16Therefore do not let what is for you a good thing be spoken of as evil;
17for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
18For he who in this way serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men.
19So then we pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another.
20Do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food All things indeed are clean, but they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense.
21It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles.
22The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin.
​

BFA

 

[Joe67]

How do you understand the bolded sections?

1Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions.

2One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only.
3The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him.
4Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.
6He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.
7For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself;
8for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.
9For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
10But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.
11For it is written,
"AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME,
AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD."
12So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.
13Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this--not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother's way.
14I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died.
16Therefore do not let what is for you a good thing be spoken of as evil;
17for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
18For he who in this way serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men.
19So then we pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another.
20Do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food All things indeed are clean, but they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense.
21It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles.
22The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin.
​

BFA

BFA,

1 Corinthians 8 is a complimentary witness of the testimony of Jesus unto his church in bringing forth God's wisdom in Jesus Christ.

1 Cor 8:1-6
8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
2 And if any man think that he knoweth anything, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
KJV

1 Cor 8:7-9:1
7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.
9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
11 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend. KJV

Thirty years past when I first began to seriously read and think upon these two witnesses in Romans 14 and 1 Corinthians 8, two opposing pictures came to my thoughts and Romans 14 became more pleasing to me in the sense that it came to me at that time.

The sword out of his mouth, the Word of God, is a two-edged sword. In childhood and in the middle years of human life, this is hidden from us, even though we be heirs of the kingdom that the Lord promised through Abraham.

Joe

 

[Byfaithalone1]

BFA,

1 Corinthians 8 is a complimentary witness of the testimony of Jesus unto his church in bringing forth God's wisdom in Jesus Christ.

I'm not so sure. I certainly have heard this explanation from a number of SDAs. However, I'm no longer persuaded by the prooftext method that's built upon the "here a little, there a little" approach. Instead, I'd like to explore the context of Romans 14 and fully understand what Paul is saying to the Romans before assuming that a letter written at a different time to a different group of people has some bearing on the passage I cited in the original post.

So, in the context of Romans 14, what is Paul saying to the Romans regarding things that are unclean?

BFA

 

[Joe67]

I'm not so sure. I certainly have heard this explanation from a number of SDAs. However, I'm no longer persuaded by the prooftext method that's built upon the "here a little, there a little" approach. Instead, I'd like to explore the context of Romans 14 and fully understand what Paul is saying to the Romans before assuming that a letter written at a different time to a different group of people has some bearing on the passage I cited in the original post.

So, in the context of Romans 14, what is Paul saying to the Romans regarding things that are unclean?

BFA

BFA,

The context of Romans 14 is the context of the entire letter.

Joe

 

[Byfaithalone1]

BFA,

The context of Romans 14 is the context of the entire letter.

Joe

I agree with you.

BFA

 

[Steve Petersen]

Get out a good Greek lexicon and look at the various words that are translated as 'unclean' in the NT.

Then correlate those Greek words with the Greek Old Testament. The words are 'koine' and 'akathartos.'

 

[Joe67]

I agree with you.

BFA

BFA,

You are the father of this thread. We will first listen to your witness.

Joe

 

[Byfaithalone1]

BFA,

We will first listen to your witness.

Joe

At a minimum, it seems to me that we haven't been granted the authority to judge one another about the food we eat -- be it "clean" or "unclean."

BFA

 

[Joe67]

At a minimum, it seems to me that we haven't been granted the authority to judge one another about the food we eat -- be it "clean" or "unclean."

BFA

BFA,

Amen and amen, in Jesus Christ our Lord.

Joe

 

[fellowbeliever]

Joe
You're missing Paul's point. If there is another brother in the Lord who eats BLTs and you are a vegetarian, you have no right to judge him for eating meat, because he is your brother IN THE LORD. Joe, it is not what goes into a man that defiles him but what comes out of a man

 

[Joe67]

Joe
You're missing Paul's point. If there is another brother in the Lord who eats BLTs and you are a vegetarian, you have no right to judge him for eating meat, because he is your brother IN THE LORD. Joe, it is not what goes into a man that defiles him but what comes out of a man

fb,

Amen and amen.

Under Moses we would be obligated to judge.

In Jesus Christ we have been set free from judging those who are not like us in their outward behavior.

Joe

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I think the premise in not judging what another eats, drinks, or what day they worship, does not mean it is because it is acceptable to God but that judgement is reserved for Him and not for us.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

I think the premise in not judging what another eats, drinks, or what day they worship, does not mean it is because it is acceptable to God but that judgement is reserved for Him and not for us.

That conclusion is inconsistent with my understanding of Romans 14 for 5 reasons:

(1) If the issue of food was truly an issue of "what is acceptable to God," we would not hear "do not judge," but would instead hear "exhort one another in love."

(2) It is the man who's faith is weak who says "eat only vegetables." The faith of other men allows them to eat anything.

(3) These are described as "disputable matters," not matters of "what is acceptable to God."

(4) Whoever eats meat "does so to the Lord." This hardly sounds like an issue relating to "what is acceptable to God."

(5) Paul is clear that "nothing is unclean in itself."
​

BFA

 

[Joe67]

I think the premise in not judging what another eats, drinks, or what day they worship, does not mean it is because it is acceptable to God but that judgement is reserved for Him and not for us.

ECR,

Romans 14 is a blend of the duality of faith. Faith that sees nothing as unclean of itself and thereby no law against a given process. And faith that believes that certain things are unclean within their nature.

For 30 years God bound my thoughts under the thought that there was an uncleaness in the nature of things, that is to say that he made it unclean.

Then the Lord opened my understanding to see that everything is what he calls it to be and that he who calls something a given way can be just in calling it to also be another way, so that his truth is dual at the same moment/event and this is what makes for peace in his grace.

When we see things from a single view/vision then we will either judge and hate or else we will despise and be indifferent.

Here are a few parts of the witness in Romans 14 that witness to the need for duality of faith.

Rom 14:3
3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. KJV

Rom 14:10
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. KJV

Rom 14:13
13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way. KJV

Rom 14:14
but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. KJV

Rom 4:16
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, KJV

Joe

 

[JCMJ friend]

My personal view on that is that God has given us some wise advise not to eat certain meat because its unhealthy,especially the pig.I dont think God will judge a person for eating pig,i think its Gods way of advising whats good or bad for our bodies.I dont think its a sin that will keep a person out of heaven though.Luckey for me i choose to be vegetaian so i know im not eating anything that will harm my temple,and the bible says God wants us to keep our bodies healthy because we are te temple of the holy spirit .

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Thats the way I see it too. The Lord made us and therefore He knows what He made that is good for us to eat.

If the manufacturer of your car said to only put certain things in to ensure it's optimum operation and you chose to trust your own wisdom and put different spec'd fluids, you would more than likely harm the vehicle.

I also agree that it is not salvational but a choice to honour Him by treating my body the best I can. Same reason why I no longer smoke or drink... not good for my temple.

 

[JCMJ friend]

God is an everlasting merciful God,i dont feel he would judge anyone by what they eat,on the other hand he wants us to honor our bodies x

 

[Joe67]

My personal view on that is that God has given us some wise advise not to eat certain meat because its unhealthy,especially the pig.I dont think God will judge a person for eating pig,i think its Gods way of advising whats good or bad for our bodies.I dont think its a sin that will keep a person out of heaven though.Luckey for me i choose to be vegetaian so i know im not eating anything that will harm my temple,and the bible says God wants us to keep our bodies healthy because we are te temple of the holy spirit .

JCMJ,

The uncleanness of foods is an object lesson of the uncleanness of the inward man that Isaiah confessed in Isaiah 6.

Isa 6:5
5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts. KJV

The hog has a divided hoof, thus the lesson of not trampling upon others, like the horse, who has a solid hoof. But the hog does not chew its cud, thus it is greedy through its mouth. Idolatry is greed. Thus, the hog represents people who are moral in regard to violence, but they are greedy, as in never being satisfied in regard to their their possessions.

The mouse is a spiritual object lesson of sin from a much more insidious and hidden standpoint.

Isa 66:17
17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD. KJV

Joe

 

[Adventtruth]

Why would God tell Israel not to eat certain animals said to be unclean, but Noah was given permission to eat all meats?

AT

 

[Steve Petersen]

Are you familiar with the phrase 'Be ye holy as I am holy.'

Where do you find it in Scripture?