not that it matters... but....

[murjahel]

Not that it matters, but some have wanted me to explain a bit about my church affiliation, and the like...
so...

My church is as much like the early church as I can keep it... That church was a revival church, a soul winning church, a simple unstructured setting, that for the first hundred years did not even have a building...

The church was persecuted for its stand, and many were killed, for they did not try to be politically correct, nor did they try to offend the government that was so set against them.

The early church had pastors, prophets, evangelists, etc.. and they had then serve as 'servants' to the congregation. There was no heirarchy, of one group feeling superior to any other group...

Paul corrected Peter, Barnabas admonished Paul... There were gifts of the Spirit in operation, and all looked to Jesus as their 'HIGH PRIEST'...

In my church, an offering is not passed... There is a offering container near the back, and if the Lord speaks to some to give, they can give... but... no great money raising emphasis, for if God wants the work to go forward, it will, if He does not, it won't. The churches that I have pastored have never had a financial shortfall. I teach 'stewardship' and each person answers to God for 100 % of their money, and give as He directs, and to whomever He directs it to be given.

The doctrines of the church are modeled after what the early church believed. I have done much study and reading on such, translating many of the early church's books and writings... After evaluation of what those and historical records show, I feel that my church is as close to the early church as possible...​

 

[murjahel]

When Jesus came to earth,
He was One of the Godhead.

Jesus became flesh,
and He lived among us on this earth.

God, the Father,
was not satisfied with that.

So Jesus died, was buried, and three days later was resurrected.

He became the Seed,
and He was planted into the ground.

John 1:14
"And the Word was made flesh,
and dwelt among us..."

The Seed, being planted,
now has had a harvest.

The harvest is the church.

Now all of the church is the
"body of Christ."
Christ is again in the flesh,
He is in us.

Every cell in the "body church" is an extension of Jesus' ministry.

Each cell has the Christ-life dwelling within.

As cells in the body have a duty to multiply and
cause more cells to become part of the body,
so we are to allow the Spirit to use us in the life-giving ministry.

The Spirit gives gifts to the cells within the "body"
in order to empower them to do the work
that God wants done.

Each cell is to use its
Spirit- empowered gifts
to extend life to more and more cells.

Groups of these cells may choose to worship and serve the Lord
as part of a body church.

A body church is a congregation of cells.

It is in no way the whole church,
but only part of the true church,
i.e. the "body of Christ."

Each body church can do a part of the work of the whole true church.

Within the body church there is a need for government.

This requires pastors, deacons, ushers, etc.

The Lord does call some to be His servants, and in some position to aid the ministry of the body church.

Over the years there have been many types of such body churches.

The role of leadership in such body churches has had many different kinds of interpretations.

In some, the leadership assumes the LAISSEZ-FAIRE
type of leadership.

This type exhibits no leadership at all.

No one is given a definite responsibility for getting anything done.

Everything just happens.

The group is allowed to discuss, evaluate, and
individually decide their own course of action.

Many members are not mature enough for this process,
and many splits occur when various members of this group
choose different paths.

No outside source of authority is given as a guide.

No standard of guidelines is chosen.

Everyone does that which is right in their own eyes.

The leader simply allows personal choices of members to be
chosen,
regardless of morality and effect.

The second kind of leadership is the AUTHORITARIAN type.

This is a very common form of leadership.

The leader presumes his decisions are superior to those of the rest of the group.

This type of leader feels responsible to influence the group to accept his views no matter what it takes.

This type of group could work in many areas if the leaders
were moral, Godly, and loving.

Yet, the heart is deceitful, and even those who feel spiritual enough to lead others in this way will fail.

It is not God's chosen way.


The third type of leadership is the DEMOCRATIC.

The democratic leader assumes that the total decision of the group will be the right decision.

The leader presents the items for discussion, and lets the debate precede a vote of the group.

The decision is the vote of the majority.

The last day church is to be like the church at Laodicea,
and its name means "please the people."

Democracy is a "please the people" method.

We live a democratic republic and are pre-disposed to preferring a democracy.

In human government, democracy is a great way of running a government.

Yet, in God's government,
theocracy is unbeatable.

For the Ruler of the theocracy is omniscient,
all-loving,
and omnipotent.

The trouble with democratic rule is that the majority are usually in opposition to God's plan.

The majority in the wilderness wanted to go back to Egypt.

Of the 500 that Jesus spoke to at one time after His resurrection,
only 120 decided the wait in the upper room was worth it.

Of the twelve disciples,
one betrayed Him,
10 followed afar off,
and only one (John)
was at the foot of the cross.

Democracy depends on a majority being in the will of the Lord.

It seldom has happened in the past.


The fourth type of leadership is unfortunately the most rare.

It is the one that people least understand. The people have resisted this one,
for they fail to comprehend even how it works.

It is called the
THEOCRATIC
type.

It allows God to be in total control.

It is not laissez-faire,
for God does exert direction through the Bible and through the Spirit.

It is not authoritarian, for no man is put into the position as "lord."

It is not democratic, for the Lord does not ask us for a vote,
nor put the decision up to us.

And the things God will direct, will most often be directly contrary to what the individual members of the group would choose.

It is the Lord Who gives commands,
issues directives,
and chooses a path for us.

He is the One Who wants to instruct us to sometimes do things completely contrary and seemingly stupid, and expect us to do them.

This is a rare form of body church,
that accepts the
THEOCRATIC
form of leadership.

Yet, it is the form of leadership that God says is the only acceptable one.

The body church is part of the "body of Christ",
and is therefore subject to the
Head of the "body",
i.e. Jesus Christ.

Under the THEOCRATIC form of leadership God has chosen to place different under-shepherds in the body churches to be examples for the cell churches,
and to help by aiding the hurting,
exhorting the discouraged,
and preaching the Word.

​

 

[murjahel]

The Lord has sometimes had me fill the office of being a pastor...

That is a hard calling, for I grew up as a PK,
and knew ahead of time, the heartache and pain of pastoring...

The office of pastor in a body church embraces a complex variety of tasks.

He/she is placed in that position to serve, to minister God's messages,
and to exhort and encourage.

He/she is not there to be the plumber, janitor, or whipping boy...
yet, most pastors face that kind of job....

He/she is there to give all that God gives him/her to a needy, hurting, and thirsting group of Christians.

His/her ministry should be stripped of the "chores" that usually clutter a ministry.

His/her calling is from God,
and his ministry is to follow God's direction...
not a committee's directives.

Though the pastor may not be an evangelist, he/she will often do the work of one.

Though the pastor may not be an administrator, he/she will often do that work.

He/she will most often need to be searching the Word of God,
interceding in his/her private prayer closet.

His/her prophetic ministry depends on his/her sensitivity to the Holy Spirit.

His/her teaching may sometimes be to a large group,
but most often need to be done individually and confidentially.

Sometimes he/she may be called to leave the great, large worship centers,
and go into an apostolic ministry.

His/her counsel for others will come from the Lord, and be given to them with meekness and humility.

The true pastor is not
a cowboy who is "driving cattle",
but
is an under-shepherd who will
"lead" sheep.

There is a vast difference in "driving" and "leading."

He/she will not try to be a "lord" over the others, but seek to serve them as an example of what God wants all to become.

The true pastor will carry a burden for the flock.

The pastor will love and care for all regardless of their spiritual condition, their length of time as a Christian, their personal wealth, and their relationship with the pastor.

He/she will not question their past, but see their potential... as our Lord does.

The watchful vigilance and intercessory prayers of the true pastor will be time consuming...
but vital.

The true pastor is worth more than any congregation can afford,
but he/she is not a hireling.

The true pastor will not serve for the money,
and will exhibit personal risk,
inconvenience and total sacrifice in his/her courageous ministry.

The true pastor will feed and nourish the congregation in order to fit them for fruitfulness.

He/she will seek to enlarge the cell ministry of each Christian in the body church.

The reluctance of others to stir themselves toward the Lord, the discouragement that follows unsuccessful attempts to awaken the spiritually drowsy,
the heartbreak of seeing some apostatize from God,
the despair of fighting damnable doctrines that the devil tries to instill within a body church...
will make the office of pastoring a body church one of the most difficult of ministries.

There is no fortune on earth that can ever properly pay the true minister.

Most true ministers are vastly underpaid and yet the true pastors will be so intent on the spiritual rewards of their ministries
that they will seldom distress themselves with financial concerns.

Being an under-shepherd is not a pastime.

It is serious business.

The task of the pastor in simply caring for the congregation is a high calling that demands great honour and respect of all the cell churches that attend the body church.

It is a high privilege for a body church to have the God-appointed person of God in the pulpit. Many a church has seldom seen this happen, and suffer from the work of a hireling, a false prophet, or a mis-directed Christian.

Jesus explained His ministry in Luke chapter 4.

First He gave the claim to be appointed and anointed to a ministry.

Luke 4:18
"The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me for He has anointed Me..."

Thus, the first necessity of a pastor is a Spirit-anointing. The Holy Spirit will show the one who is chosen of God by the anointing that is upon the chosen person. We should look for someone who has an evident anointing from the Lord. It will show, and it will be felt, discerned, and exhibited.

Secondly, the person that is so chosen will have an overwhelming desire to propagate the good news. Without the good news, the world is poor, bewildered, bored, miserable, and ignorant. To proclaim the gospel is "good news. Too many proclaim the "bad news" and include lists of "do's and don't's" The condemnations may sometimes have to come from the called pastor, but they will come reluctantly.

Luke 4:18
"He hath anointed Me to preach good news
to the poor..."

Thirdly, the truly called servant that is given a pastorate to lead will exhibit a ministry of giving freedom and light to the body church.

Luke 4:18
"To proclaim release to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind..."

Some are bound by sin and ignorance.

Some are blinded to the truth by misconceptions.

Some are locked and imprisoned by grudges and hate.

Some blindly grope for help, but don't know where to turn.
Some come to church to sing, to recite a prayer, but never have learned what a church really is.

The truly called pastor of a body church will gladly announce the freedom and sight to the prisoners and blinded.

Fourthly, the truly called pastor will rejoicingly set free those who are suffering from the oppression of the devil.

The devil likes to oppress people.

He likes to create depression, hopelessness, heavy burdens, bitterness, and despair.

Sometimes unforgiveness, or another sin, will allow the devil to oppress some in the congregation.

The truly called pastor will preach a message of being set free from such oppression.

Luke 4:18
"...to set at liberty those that are oppressed..."

Fifth, the truly called pastor of a body church will be greatly excited about the presentation of grace, mercy, love, freedom, healing, blessing, rapture, resurrection, heaven, and eternity with God to the congregation.

Luke 4:19
"...to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord..."
Jesus stopped quoting from Isaiah at that point, and omitted the next part of the verse... "vengeance of God..."

The pastor is not here for the "vengeance" part.

The pastor of the church is primarily here to tell the "rewards" part to the saints...

He/she comes to pronounce a "fear not" to the "body of Christ".

He/she may tell them why the fear can be eliminated from the saint's mind, but he/she will not try to scare the saints.

Often Jesus said, "Fear not!"

The "fear" that He preached was for the Pharisees and Sadducees.

These hypocrites received the condemnation.

The thief on the cross, the woman caught in adultery, the woman at the well, the backslidden Peter, the doubtful Thomas, the confused Nicodemus, and the rich young ruler...
all received a kind,
but challenging, message from our Lord Jesus.

A truly called pastor will have that same mind...
as was in Christ Jesus.

The office of pastor in a body church is terrifically expensive. It costs in many senses of the word. The price paid is beyond understanding of any who have not been appointed by God to such an office. The truly called pastor is always reluctant. He/she will avoid the calling if possible. He/she will feel ineffective, unworthy, incapable, and scared of the calling.

It is reported that John Wesley received a letter that told him that the writer felt the Lord wanted John Wesley to know...
"while you know Greek and Hebrew, He (the Lord) can do without your book larnin..."
John Wesley replied to this with:
"...I already knew that the Lord
could do without my 'larnin.'
I wish to say that while the Lord does not direct me to tell you,
yet I wish to say to you on my own responsibility that the Lord does not need your ignorance either."

Too many ministers are empty-headed.

The desire to learn more, and to find out from God through prayer and Bible study what he/she needs to know is vital for any pastor of a body church.

Empty-headed ministers usually end up with empty pews.

A pastor who is truly called will find great pleasure in long hours with God Himself, and with the Word inspired by this same God.

Any who would rather not, or who choose to neglect the study of the Word, are like the mechanic who feels his mechanical talent will enable him to successfully become a brain surgeon. Presumption like this has damaged many a congregation.

The cell churches should seek a body church in which to worship and serve.

Many are available. Some have leadership with the wrong type of concept of the body church. Some are being led by a false prophet. Some are being led by a hireling who serves for the money. Some have a mis-directed Christian leading them who does not have the anointing of the Spirit for that ministry.

Careful prayer and direction from the Lord are necessary in choosing the body church in which we are to worship.​

 

[murjahel]

I Corinthians 5:6-8
"Your boasting is not good.
Do you not know that a little leaven
leavens the whole lump?
Cleanse out the old leaven
that you may be like a new lump..."

It must be admonished that the church cannot condone sin.

Condoning sin by in-action represents rebellion against God and His Word.

It is like apples in the "church" barrel.

God never intended us to be individually wrapped in plastic.

Therefore, one "rotten apple" affects the rest of us.

The "little leaven" has too often been tolerated within the church.

Treachery, gossip, theft, sexual immorality, oppression, pride, criticism, spiritual abuse, and deceit are found within many church congregations.

The rest of the church is tainted by the sins of a few.

II John 11
"...he that biddeth him God speed
is partaker of his evil deeds."

It is definitely possible for the whole "lump" to be tainted, contaminated, and defiled by the sins of others within the group.

(Joshua learned that after Ai.)

We may condone sin by word, by action, or by in-action.

(Paul simply held the coats
of the ones who stoned Stephen.)

Proverbs 27:5-6 (Moffatt)
"Better a frank word of reproof,
than the love that will not speak;
faithful are the wounds of a friend."


Wounds from a friend are like wounds of a surgeon.

They are designed to cure, not to kill.

The enemy tries to wound and destroy, but a friend will at times need to gently wound, in order to bring a needed healing.

There is a message that the church needs to hear, though it may sting,
yet it is given in the ministry of exhortation.

I Timothy 4:13
"Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, and to doctrine..."

"Exhortation" is from the Greek word "paraklesis" which means
"to call to the side of,"
or "to urge one to pursue some course of conduct."

Exhortation is the ministry gift that was to prevent the straying and losing of the truth, power, and harmony of the church.

The right kind of exhortation is needed and vital.

Too often some give the wrong kind of exhortation.

The problems of the congregations too often stem from an improper form of exhortation being administered.

Like a scalpel, exhortation can either be an instrument of healing, or an instrument of death and destruction.

I Thessalonians 2:3
"For our exhortation was not of deceit,
nor of uncleanness, nor in guile..."​

 

[Servant4Yeshuah]

Dear Murjahel
Thanks for sharing. Again, may I ask you what study companion guides you use with the Bible? Thanks much and may Yeshuah continue to bless you. I used to belong to a congregation like yours and I miss it. I am now fellowshipping where my husband is more comfortable, and he is growing spriritually. However I will be visiting my sister in law in a few weeks and I will be able to attend a cell church again...and the topic when I come? Prophesy...how wonderful the Lord is.

 

[murjahel]

You ask which study guides I use... Well, I have been a Christian since 10, and now am 61, so there have been 51 years of study guides...

The ones that I use now, may be different than the ones you would want to use...

For My favorite Bible encyclopedia is
'THE INTERNATIONAL STANDARD
BIBLE ENCYCLOPEDIA...

I use
STRONG'S CONCORDANCE
quite a bit....

I was raised on the KJV so I still use it mainly, but check the Greek and Hebrew, to verify meanings of words...

The
'DAKE'S ANNOTATED REFERENCE BIBLE
is the one I use for study,
it has valuable notes
and most of them are 'agreeable'...

Finis Jennings Dake also wrote the book called
'GOD'S PLAN FOR MAN',
and this book is invaluable.

I have written over thirty books myself, and the research that I have to do in writing them, takes me to many books of the early church, many various lexicons, historical books, that are not easily obtainable. I have a personal library of books, many of which are no longer in print, and most CHRISTIAN LIBRARIES would give an arm and leg for the books in my library...

So, the 'deeper study' kind of books that I use most, may not be the kind you are looking for,... but if you want my opinion for you, I would suggest you get ahold of a 'DAKE'S ANNOTATED REFERENCE BIBLE, and DAKE'S book, called 'GOD'S PLAN FOR MAN'... and that shoud keep you busy for a while... LOL... and once you get used to Dake's ref Bible, you will carry it with you everywhere, for it has valuable notes, that greatly help you when listening to various ministers, to aid you in understanding others as they teach ...

God bless...​

 

[iBystander]

Greetings,

I picked up a large body of Dake's work for just pennies and still have it. I found it amazing and couldn't put it down as I found insight upon insight that I had never heard before. The only thing that I recall at the moment involved Jonah and how he was an archetype of Christ in that he actually lay dead for three days in the whale and was resurrected on the third. It was, on the whole, fascinating and well documented.

However, wanting to know more about this man, I did some research on him and found out he could recite the Bible from memory but claimed to have acquired the knowledge without reading or memorization. This seemed to go against scripture (2Ti 2:15) as well as an incident with him picking up an underaged hitchhiker. If I can set aside the latter, then I have to wonder why he would have been given the former ability when no one else has. Particularly when the latter incident brought down so much of his work. Needless to say, I was a bit fightened by the possibility of being unduly influenced by his work and set it aside until I was more experienced and had grown more.

What is your opinion of his claim and the reliability of his work as a whole?

BTW, I've enjoyed reading your posts and have read some of what you've written on other boards including one which is no longer in existance but is available via Google's cache. You've covered quite a bit of what I'd been working on myself in study as of late and it's been both a confirmation and illumination for me. Thank you.

-Lance


_

 

[murjahel]

I personally have listened to Dake... and he knew Scripture like no other person I know... Someone could ask him a question ...
like IN ISAIAH 33:... IT SAYS...'
and
Dake could interrupt them and add,
'well, look in Daniel ##### and in Jeremiah ####' and
Dake would quote all the verses, give references, and I was sitting there still wondering what was going on... LOL

the incident you mentioned was his arrest for transporting a minor runaway over the state line, and there is much question as to his judgment on that, or if he truly knew the age of the minor, and all...

But if we assume
that he was totally wrong in the matter,
then we would have to either admit he was
not perfect,
which I never thought anyhow...
and
we could try to forgive him as we do, Peter, Paul, etc...

There are some things that I disagree with Dake on, for instance,
he was raised in the Atlanta area,
and in that time,
it was a bit racially divided...
and that culture, I beleive,
tainted his views
on the races remaining separate,
and he tries to use some of the Scripture to back up that view...
I disagree with that completely,
and that part of his writing bothers me...

Of course the bigotry of James and John against the Samaritans for a while,
and the bigotry of Peter against the Romans
for a bit, etc,
also bother me,
but I realize that they needed corrected...
and I am sure that F.J. Dake,
where he is now, (heaven)
has been corrected on that,
if it did not happen before he got there...

But his other notes,
Hebrew and Greek references,
lists, compilations, etc..
are a great wealth of info
to be used...

like everything, and everyone,
we need to test all by the Scripture...
and 'verify' all in personal study....

I write in my study Bible,
and some few parts, I need to 'cross out'
or 'question mark'... of his notes...
but...
there are many other parts that I truly value...​

 

[iBystander]

I personally have listened to Dake... and he knew Scripture like no other person I know...

​

But still, I have to wonder about his claim. If the claim was false then, while I perhaps wouldn't deny the scholarly value of his work, I would have a problem utilizing it as a main tool of study. I've needlessly wasted far too much time wrestling with theological tar balls that have been tossed my way.

Since you didn't directly address his claim, does this mean you would rather not judge it and rely on his work to testify of itself?

 

[murjahel]

Which claim do you refer to... the one on 'knowing the Bible without memorization???

Remember 'Aholiab and Bezeleel... of the O.T., and how God gifted them iutn the building of the Tabernacle... that was an unusual gift ... and so, what he claimed was not impossible to have happened, (see Exodus 31:1-6...

I personallyhave never read of that kind of claim from him, himself... but he did study hard... and knew Scripture like no one else I have ever seen....

the other problem, you mentioned...
remember, the Jerusalem church had trouble with Paul, knowing that he had helped in killing Stephen...

we need to forgive... ​

 

[iBystander]

Thanks for taking the time to explain. I wasn't referring to his transporting the girl across state lines. I could easily believe his version of events which was that he placed her in a motel room for her shelter and hadn't realized he was committing a crime by taking her across state lines.

Perhaps I shouldn't, but I can't help but view his claim with incredulous curiosity. I do have to wonder why God would gift someone so able bodied and capable. I can't cite where I came across the information about his having spontaneous knowledge of the Scriptures but perhaps if I ever get to the box with his work in it, I can look it up.

 

[Peter]

Who's your bishop?

Do you mix the wine with warm water?

Do you use real wine?

Give us an example of your liturgy.

In what way do you keep the hours of prayer?

Do you practice infant baptism and full rights of the infant to the eucharist?

What documents have you translated? Please list. Also, please include the languages of these documents.

Before I even consider giving you any credability, I would like more info.

Thank you.

Rdr. Peter

 

[visionary]

the other problem, you mentioned...
remember, the Jerusalem church had trouble with Paul, knowing that he had helped in killing Stephen...

Maybe we should too...do we have a problem with Paul?

http://www.yahuah.org/Revelation of Daniel.htm

 

[Jesus Is Real]

Maybe we should too...do we have a problem with Paul?

http://www.yahuah.org/Revelation of Daniel.htm

http://www.yahuah.org/Revelation of Daniel.htm

This url Article says:
Acts 26:14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. This statement is actually a Greek Proverb. You can find it written in the story of Dionysus (pronounced De- o- knee - sus) "Bacchae of Europide" written in 410 BC. http://www.dhushara.com/book/diochris/bacch.htm

AND:

Basically, Messiah is warning us "HIS PEOPLE WILL BE TESTED" (Deut 13:1 -5)! A False Prophet (False Apostle) will arise, so powerful, he could FOOL EVEN THE ELECT. He will come in his own name (without two witnesses), and will be accepted; he starts out as a persecuting power, suffers a deadly wound, then becomes a wondrous thing. This individual's words, actions and deeds will lead many astray, as his gospel carries more weight than Messiah's True Message of repentance (1Jn 3:4: Sin is transgression of the Law). The "Abomination that makes desolate" is "Another Gospel" that Stands in the Place of Messiah's words. Although it appears to be right, sounds true (it's sweet in one's mouth), it destroys wonderfully as poison (tares) to destroy the would-be gullible victim (2Cor 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light). Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

The Apostle Paul the False Prophet:

no no,.... wrong~
No,.......The Apostle Paul is not an enemy in the camp.

The works of the flesh nature is God's Enemies inside of us. And even when we are not putting it to death by God's Spirit we are becoming the enemies of God who are in the camp seeing we are not In His Will of not being led by Him to the putting to death the deeds of the flesh.

This whole Article is trying to derail the Whole Message of God's Promise to Abraham to bring in Abraham's seed to inherit the Kingdom of God. But the enemies must be dispossessed who are on the land, as we are being led by His Spirit.

These Pharisees hadn't ever heard Jesus' Father's Voice etc,.... But John the Baptist Heard The Father's Witness about Jesus at Jesus' Baptism and John was Jesus' third Witness though man's witness to Jesus is not Greater than His Father's: But no one HEARD any WORDS THE FATHER TOLD JESUS TO SAY!!! HE AND GOD WERE THE TWO Witnesses in those many private conversations to be spoken out later!!!:

John 5:36-38
36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

John 8:13-19
13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.

14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.

15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.

16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.

18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

John 5:37-43
37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

41 I receive not honour from men.

42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.

43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Paul's Third Witness:
These men with Saul (at that time) hadn't heard Jesus' Voice that day,.... But Ananias Heard Jesus Witness about Saul (now Paul) and then Paul was Baptism: And just like the Pattern's shows with Jesus---> no one HEARD any WORDS that Jesus TOLD Paul TO SAY!!! HE AND GOD WERE THE TWO Witnesses in that private conversation to be spoken out later!!!
And Paul didn't even write the Book of Acts~

Acts 9:13-18
13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:

14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.

15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.

18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. KJV

The Same God that Patterned out Jesus to Walk (above quotes) - is the Same God Who Patterned out Paul to Walk. They both Glorified God. The Father Gloried His Son. Jesus Glorfied His Father. Paul Glorified both Father and Son in the Holy Ghost. Amen.

Repent url site.
It's very out of line,...for it knows not the Love of God.

 

[Jesus Is Real]

http://www.yahuah.org/Revelation of Daniel.htm

Cherished Beliefs Will be DESTROYED!

(Understanding the REVELATION)

MESSIAH SAID in Mark13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

PAUL said in Acts 22:4-5 And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women. As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. The beast is a persecuting power, that overthrows Kingdoms, its heads are a SEPARATE POWER to overthrow the Father's KINGDOM!! Why do you think Johns Letter was written to the Seven Churches?

Acts 26:10-11 Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against them. And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted them even unto strange cities.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ (Yahusha the Messiah).

Remember, Messiah said in Matt 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.

Acts 9:14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name. Saul is the Beast that rose up and persecuted the followers of Yahusha for three and a half years.

http://www.yahuah.org/Revelation of Daniel.htm
Are you Getting the Picture?

PAULINE CHRISTIANITY and anyone else who takes Paul's Words as Gospel has failed the test of DEUT 13:1-5!!

It is disturbing to think, we really didn’t love YHWH with all our heart, because we were not looking for the false prophet. Well now you can say “HallaluYAH." I've found him, and cast him from my midst!!

[BIBLE]2 Peter 2:17-22[/BIBLE]

This is some pretty evil writtings, visionary. Ditching more of the New Testament writings - is not being Led by the Holy Spirit to the putting to death the deeds of the flesh which God--The Holy One of Israel showed Israel in physical form.
[BIBLE]2 Peter 3:14-18[/BIBLE]

Gal 6:1-7
6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.

5 For every man shall bear his own burden.

6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.

7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.


FLEE Visionary from that article and hear The Apostle Peter restore you back to your Elder Brother Paul the Apostle to the Gentiles, which we both are. And be restored back to me as your friend for I am sick at heart for seeing this article that was posted!!


I pray Eph 1:17 prayer:
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
Peace. Love is Patient, Connie

 

[Jesus Is Real]

the other problem, you mentioned...
remember, the Jerusalem church had trouble with Paul, knowing that he had helped in killing Stephen...

we need to forgive... ​

yes we forgive~~~
[BIBLE]Hebrews 12:14-15[/BIBLE]
[BIBLE]Hebrews 12:25-29[/BIBLE]

Amen,
Connie

 

[visionary]

His apostleship was unrecognized by others.

Of the 22 times in the New Testament where Paul is referred to as an apostle, only twice is he referred to as an apostle by someone other than himself. These two instances came from the same person. Not from Yahshua or any of the original apostles, but from Paul's close traveling companion and personal press secretary Luke. Both accounts are found in Luke's record of the Acts of the Apostles, (chapter 14:4,14). Here Paul is referred to as an apostle along with Barnabas. By this time in the record, Luke would have been very familiar with Paul calling himself an apostle and was no doubt in agreement with Paul's assessment of himself. By these statistics alone, it is evident that Paul is by far his own biggest fan... and his side kick Luke was his number two fan. This leaves no one else anywhere in the Bible going on record as recognizing his apostleship! . . .

(farther down under the revelation)

Now look at what was said to the only church of the seven that we know Paul had any dealings with, Ephesus. Among the things that Yahshua commended the Ephesian church for doing right, is this quote:

"I know your works, your labor, and your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars." Rev. 2:2 NKJV

Yes. I believe Yahshua here is referring to Paul and his companions Timothy, and possibly Barnabas, and that his claims of apostleship and his doctrine are false!

We have record of Paul claiming to be an apostle to the Ephesians.

"Paul, an apostle of Yahshua by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus," Ephesians 1:1 NKJV

We have no record of anyone else claiming to be an apostle to anyone anywhere, not even to the Ephesians.

Ephesus is the only church of the seven listed in Revelation, that we have record of Paul claiming to be an apostle to.

Paul and his doctrine had troubles being accepted in Ephesus.

"And he went into the synagogue and spoke boldly for three months, reasoning and persuading concerning the things of the kingdom of God. But when some were hardened and did not believe, but spoke evil of the Way before the multitude, he departed from them..." Acts 19:8,9 NKJV

Remember that this is recorded from Luke’s point of view and that he believed Paul's doctrine was 'the Way'. Notice that those who rejected Paul are men of the synagogue and not atheists or pagans. If these men had stood up in front of the synagogue and said, "Paul's doctrine is flawed. He is a false apostle, and a liar"; Luke would no doubt have seen this as "speaking evil of the Way".

If these five reasons are not enough to seriously call into question Paul's status as an apostle there is one more. It is a most interesting quote from Paul's own pen that finally seals the fate of his supposed apostleship. It comes from his second letter to Timothy, which was also written during the same Neronian persecution in which John was given the Revelation. This letter is believed by many scholars to contain the last recorded words of Paul. Here he makes a short statement of lament that seems to have gone unnoticed. The implications of which are astounding if one is able to hear everything that is being said. Paul says to Timothy:

"This you know, that all those in Asia have turned away from me." 2Timothy 1:15

Asia! All of them! Rejecting Paul! And when he says, "This you know", it sounds like this must have been relatively common knowledge at that time. Asia! The very place that Yahshua told John to write, where his seven churches were! And they were alive, and obviously had been established for some time. Again, notice that Paul did not say that Asia had rejected Yahshua. Obviously they hadn't rejected Yahshua if there were thriving churches there that Yahshua wanted to address through John. Instead Paul said that all Asia had rejected him personally!

Let me reiterate this picture again and try to grasp the profound significance of it. Here we have in the book of Revelation the words of Yahshua commending the Ephesian church for rejecting someone who claimed to be his apostle. While Paul, the only person anywhere (other than the twelve original apostles) at that time to have gone on record claiming to be an apostle, we know has made this very claim to this same Ephesian church. At the same time, Paul laments himself of the fact that he has been rejected by them! How could it NOT be Paul and his associates that Yahshua had commended the Ephesian church for rejecting? It really couldn't' be more simple. Here, one more time, is the equation in its simplest form.

Paul to the Ephesians: "I am an apostle of Yahshua"

The Ephesians to Paul: "No you're not."

Yahshua to the Ephesians: "Well done!"

This by itself, should be more than enough reason to raise serious question about Paul. Then, when we add to this the rest of the evidence against him and his doctrine, (more to come) we have more than enough reason to do as the Ephesian church and convict Paul of the crime of false impersonation of an apostle!

If Yahshua’s evaluation of Paul was that Paul was a false apostle and a liar, consider the following.

"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches".

 

[visionary]

I have a suggestion. Why not exclude all of Paul's writtings and try and prove his point. If his point is proven without the use of his writtings, then he is correct, ...right?

 

[visionary]

by the way... for those who are concerned about my faith in Paul and his writtings...

The Apostles themselves acknowledged Paul, In fact Peter claimed Pauls writings were the same as scripture, "as they do also the other scriptures"

2pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

2pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Just because people twist the things he wrote and taught does not mean that he was bad. It just the high place they put on Paul... sometimes above what Yeshua said, that I posted what I did.. We really need to humanize Paul and understand that he is full of faults too.

 

[Jesus Is Real]

Visionary,

You have engaged yourself into wrestles of men - of the flesh and it's under the curse of the Law. Flee. And deliver yourself.

They are judging after the flesh just like the Pharisees did visionary. And Jesus told these same type of men in his days:
[BIBLE]John 8:44-45[/BIBLE]
Devil's wrestle in the lusts of the world - His Own are NOT under this cursed bondage no longer!
Jesus told these men the truth and so did all who followed Christ: Matthew thru John (Revelation), Moses bearing witness along with the Law and the Prophets.

But these Pharisee types are inline with their father the devil and when we engage the same as them we proves ourselves a transgressor. Because we are not walking in The Love of the Lord. If you Love Paul you do it as unto The Lord. Don't take up their twisted thinking it's defiling them as they speak it and you as you received it in your heart to voice it out the same.
Matthew thru John (Revelation)
[BIBLE]2 Corinthians 11:3[/BIBLE]
Turn back to Christ and the simplicity that is in Christ. Jesus.
Titus 3,
Connie